Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
  

Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings

  
 
Eric214
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


ericbowles wrote:
A good example is photographing engagement photos (or a bride at a wedding). 95% of the photos are going to have a person as the subject. But a few photos will likely include the engagement ring and hand instead of the face of the person wearing it - and possibly the shot with the hand and ring in focus and the bride out of focus in the background. Using SD, you would simply cycle to Dynamic or Single AF area and be able to focus on the ring, then repeat the process to return to a mode with SD. You
...Show more

That may be true for a portrait photographer, but I am a wildlife photographer and I have heard people recommending to disable eye tracking/subject detection off for this genre as well. And I am out an average of about 4 days a week and never once had SD fail me other than a few random frames missing focus. Never had to pre focus like you mention either. I guess everyone has their issues though.



Feb 10, 2024 at 05:01 PM
Laslo Varadi
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


ericbowles wrote:
A good example is photographing engagement photos (or a bride at a wedding). 95% of the photos are going to have a person as the subject. But a few photos will likely include the engagement ring and hand instead of the face of the person wearing it - and possibly the shot with the hand and ring in focus and the bride out of focus in the background. Using SD, you would simply cycle to Dynamic or Single AF area and be able to focus on the ring, then repeat the process to return to a mode with SD. You
...Show more
What is SD?



Feb 10, 2024 at 06:31 PM
cvrle59
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings



Laslo Varadi wrote:
What is SD?

Subject Detection..



Feb 10, 2024 at 07:18 PM
Laslo Varadi
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


cvrle59 wrote:
Subject Detection..


Thank you.



Feb 10, 2024 at 08:17 PM
SCoombs
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Eric214 wrote:
That may be true for a portrait photographer, but I am a wildlife photographer and I have heard people recommending to disable eye tracking/subject detection off for this genre as well. And I am out an average of about 4 days a week and never once had SD fail me other than a few random frames missing focus. Never had to pre focus like you mention either. I guess everyone has their issues though.



I was primarily a wildlife shooter who is now starting to get into portraiture, but for wildlife I definitely found having a button to deactivate subject detection to be critical on the Z8.

Maybe it will be different in 2.0 where AAAF seems to be the most reliable option, but to this point I've been one of those guys who has as a fallback, not the single point AF, but the 1x1 custom box so that it acts like a single point AF with the benefit of subject detection. This was often invaluable when the camera interpreted some non-subject ad the subject - for instance a tree stump. I had this happen a LOT. When it did, I'd hit a button to swap to 1x1 custom area so I could very specifically tell the camera to focus on the real subject BUT have it still aim for the eye with subject detection. It got me off of random stumps and branches and onto my subject very often.

The problem was that - and maybe in 2.0 this won't be as common - oftentimes even then when I had the 1x1 on the subject it would interpret the animal's back or chest or leg or some other random part as it's head/eye, and so I'd need to turn off subject detection to make that 1x1 box act truly like single point and focus only where it was placed and not on whatever the subject detection wanted to focus on.

Frankly even if I find 2.0 to be nearly flawless I don't see why I'd want to abandon this approach in favor of using single point as my backup or "emergency" mode. Using a custom 1x1 is a perfect in between that lets you get the benefit of single point AF WHILE keeping the power of subject detection, which can be very useful. Getting rid of that in favor of regular single point would only amount to reducing the granularity of my options, so that I could only have a large area with SD or a single point without. The flexibility of having both is very powerful.

It may all he irrelevant anyways as I recall reading that SD now affects single point anyways. I haven't checked this yet, but if it's true then I absolutely want to be able to toggle subject detection off when trying to use "old fashioned" mode single point.



Feb 11, 2024 at 07:35 PM
Eric214
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


SCoombs wrote:
I was primarily a wildlife shooter who is now starting to get into portraiture, but for wildlife I definitely found having a button to deactivate subject detection to be critical on the Z8.

Maybe it will be different in 2.0 where AAAF seems to be the most reliable option, but to this point I've been one of those guys who has as a fallback, not the single point AF, but the 1x1 custom box so that it acts like a single point AF with the benefit of subject detection. This was often invaluable when the camera interpreted some non-subject ad the
...Show more

I have not ever found a reason to turn off eye/subject detection since Day 1 of the Z9's release, well 2nd shipment and FW 1.10 and have only ever used AF modes with eye tracking and disabled all Dynamic AF modes. Single point has not had subject detection. I still don't see or believe that Single Point reacts with SD. I started using and teaching the Hybrid mode before anyone else (Feb 2022) as I have been teaching Z9 setups and techniques ever since then as well. I have single point set for the center press of the sub selector but I don't even think I have used it 1% of the time.

Edited on Feb 11, 2024 at 09:55 PM · View previous versions



Feb 11, 2024 at 09:07 PM
RoamingScott
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Single point does NOT have SD.


Feb 11, 2024 at 09:16 PM
SCoombs
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Eric214 wrote:
I have not ever found a reason to turn off eye/subject detection since Day 1 of the Z9's release, well 2nd shipment and FW 1.10 and have only ever used AF modes with eye tracking and disabled all Dynamic AF modes. Single point has not had subject detection. I still don't see or believe that Single Point reacts with SD. I started using and teaching the Hybrid mode before anyone else (Feb 2022) as I have been teaching Z9 setups and techniques ever since then as well. I have single point set for the center press of the sub selector
...Show more

In case it wasn't clear, I didn't intend to claim that single point ever had subject detection in the past - I only said that I have read from a few people that it now does after 2.0 and that if this were the case it would impact how I think about the modes. It doesn't matter anyways since after checking it out myself I'd agree with Scott that these people are wrong.

Leaving that little tangent behind, have you really not had the camera try to identify something's rear end or wing or the stump it's sitting on as a subject? I've had this happen very, very often and have seen plenty of other owners of the Z8/9 mention the same thing, often citing it, as I have, as the reason they have a button for deactivating subject detection. Some of these folks have even been very prominent wildlife photographers.

I have not yet been able to get out and test 2.0 on wildlife, but pre-2.0 I'd say that at least around once for every hour of shooting I've had a case where auto-area or wide-area identifies a breast or back or piece of tree as an eye, requiring me to either swap to a non-subject detection mode or toggle off subject detection to get focus on the actual head/eye. I've found toggling off subject detection with the movie record button has been the quickest way to get focus on the right thing without having to mess with repositioning the focus point and running the risk of missing the shot I want.



Feb 11, 2024 at 11:53 PM
Eric214
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


SCoombs wrote:
In case it wasn't clear, I didn't intend to claim that single point ever had subject detection in the past - I only said that I have read from a few people that it now does after 2.0 and that if this were the case it would impact how I think about the modes. It doesn't matter anyways since after checking it out myself I'd agree with Scott that these people are wrong.

Leaving that little tangent behind, have you really not had the camera try to identify something's rear end or wing or the stump it's sitting on as a
...Show more

I have had it grab a different part of the head that would have a round color of feathers but that never led me to turn off subject detection since it was still on the head and depth of field was never an issue to get tack sharp on the eye. Plus there are ways to manipulate the AF system to lock onto the eye still and I don't mean by switching AF modes. So no I've never once felt the need to turn off subject detection and from day one I've always had an 85 to 90% hit rate and with the latest bird subject detection I'm easily plus 90% probably closer to 95% most outings as long as it wasn't my fault like a bad sequence of panning, this is with 1500, 2000 sometimes 3,000 shots in a day.

And you brought up the single point having subject detection, which it doesn't. Nikon would have to put that in the change log for me to go there with that. So we'll just leave that alone unless it's mentioned by Nikon



Feb 12, 2024 at 02:08 AM
DGC1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Excellent video here: https://youtu.be/m2gXiEx8_9Q?si=0kU8lVWTsxUmmTrC


Feb 12, 2024 at 05:41 AM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

groob
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings




CanadaMark wrote:
I'm surprised people like the toggle - AF modes are not something I would want to be cycling through, especially if you accidentally go past the one you want, you need to start over and that could easily mean missing shots. And if you just want to cycle through a very short list, you're probably better off putting those on their own buttons anyway so you don't miss any action.

You can already limit the available AF modes to a list of your choosing and just use the existing AF mode button + wheel to cycle through them quickly and easily
...Show more

This has been my thought as well. I have AA + SD on the shutter, 3D + SD on the BBAF, single point on Fn1, and wide on Fn2. I think Iíll get rid of 3D or move it to Fn2 because it works almost identically to AA. Eric has made an interesting point about AA without SD. Iíll probably try that. And I also didnít have a minimum shutter speed assigned for an oh sh!T moment. Might adopt that as well.

Regardless, seems like it is faster and easier to hit different buttons for different modes rather than cycling through them on a button, but maybe Iím overthinking it.



Feb 12, 2024 at 08:00 AM
ericbowles
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Eric214 wrote:
The acronyms are ...

RSF is Recall Shooting Functions (Hold)
AA is Auto Area

Setting up a button is assigning RSF (Hold) to any button. In my case i use FN1. In the RSF settings, i just check AF Area mode and Subject Detection that that's all that it changes



The challenge with this approach is your AF subject is completely random - it's whatever subject detection wants. It does not deactivate SD - it just opens it up to some additional subjects. When my primary choice for SD is not what I want, I want more control - not more automation.



Feb 13, 2024 at 12:46 PM
ericbowles
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Scott's right here. The person who suggested turning off SD was Paul van Allen of Nikon. He described the use case very well. It might be to choose an alternate AF target, a different subject, or even simply because subject detection does not give the results you want. It's not necessary for SD to fail to want a different AF target.

With wildlife, it's easy to encounter obstructions that block the subject or it's eye. One technique is to prefocus near the distance of the subject - possibly on a branch or clump of grass at a similar distance. Using SD, the camera is not going to readily focus on that clump of grass and would prevent pre-focus. Briefly turning off SD in favor of Single or Dynamic allows you to focus on an alternate target, and you will be prepared for returning to a SD mode when the subject is no longer obstructed - or be prepared to override with manual focus on just a portion of the subject to capture ID marks.

SD does work well a very high percentage of the time. But the key is being prepared for the times when it is not what you want.



Feb 13, 2024 at 12:56 PM
Eric214
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


ericbowles wrote:
The challenge with this approach is your AF subject is completely random - it's whatever subject detection wants. It does not deactivate SD - it just opens it up to some additional subjects. When my primary choice for SD is not what I want, I want more control - not more automation.


Setting up recall shooting functions hold to switch from bird to animal subject detection or anything that you would want to switch to isn't giving you less control. Auto area gives you passive AF tracking and recognition with an error on the box that you can then switch to the subject that's in your frame since you're on animal you can switch between anything that it's recognizing. Giving you more control not less. I've had zero issues with this never having the z9 focus on the wrong subject. Most of the time I'm in bird but when I need something other than Bird that's why it switches to animal with a press of a button.

But my recall shooting has my default AF mode to wide C1 but I leave my AF on button set to Auto instead of 3D like it used to be with the old hybrid handoff. I do it this way because it will hybrid handoff to Auto area just like it does 3D so it doesn't make any difference.

I think Paul Van Allen from Nikon is recommending this for people that have issues. But once you truly learn how to manipulate the AF system there shouldn't be any need to disable subject detection I've never had to do that in any situation



Feb 13, 2024 at 03:15 PM
SCoombs
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Eric214 wrote:
Setting up recall shooting functions hold to switch from bird to animal subject detection or anything that you would want to switch to isn't giving you less control. Auto area gives you passive AF tracking and recognition with an error on the box that you can then switch to the subject that's in your frame since you're on animal you can switch between anything that it's recognizing. Giving you more control not less. I've had zero issues with this never having the z9 focus on the wrong subject. Most of the time I'm in bird but when I need something
...Show more

I don't have the most artistically amazing examples, but for the purposes of illustrating what I'm trying to get at, a few screen captures from NX studio:







This is a case where the subject detection wasn't hitting the eye. You can see here that the subject detection has honed in on the duck's... back? as the subject. Now in this case it did go back to the head quickly after and so I did leave SD on, but it's happened often enough that it doesn't go back and I need to turn off SD.

This photo is also a good case of a classic example where SD gives me trouble: when there is a reflection like this (lovely for a photo, harder on the AF) the SD will not infrequently try to focus on the reflection rather than the actual animal, and believe me: I've tried manipulating the AF in all sorts of ways. Even going to a 1x1 custom area and making sure it's on the real animal, the subject detection still often goes for the reflection because it sees the whole shape of the bird and its reflection as a single object. Has this really never happened to you?

A few more:













In the first photo, you can see the subject detection has landed on the groundhog but has chosen the cheek. It just wouldn't take the eye. In the second photo, I went to single point AF to grab the eye that way.



Feb 13, 2024 at 08:56 PM
Eric214
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


SCoombs wrote:
I don't have the most artistically amazing examples, but for the purposes of illustrating what I'm trying to get at, a few screen captures from NX studio:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53527058492_1f244da7f2_b.jpg

This is a case where the subject detection wasn't hitting the eye. You can see here that the subject detection has honed in on the duck's... back? as the subject. Now in this case it did go back to the head quickly after and so I did leave SD on, but it's happened often enough that it doesn't go back and I need to turn off SD.

This photo is also a good case of
...Show more

I've seen that occasionally during Burst mode whether it's a 3, 4, 5 burst shot or more but in every instance the eye was still tacked Sharp. It's been an issue where that box can slightly drift But if you look at your boxes the edges of those boxes are still touching the eye or the front face where the eye is in my case or in my situations I've never had those out of focus from the eye it's still nailed the eye every time. I think your nitpicking on where that box is showing and maybe just assuming that it's missing the eye but even since firmware 1.10 my hit rate's been 85 to 90%, and since 4.10 it's easily 90 to 95% on three out of four days a week going out shooting.

But overall I barely even see it drift as much as you're showing so I don't know how often that's happening for you, but it's very accurate for me but even then none of those would ever have me turn off subject detection not even a consideration



Feb 13, 2024 at 09:35 PM
Kry27
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Great info in this thread!

SCoombs wrote:
I was primarily a wildlife shooter who is now starting to get into portraiture, ....


Here are extra tips for people shooting portraiture:

The function buttons F1/F2 compared to the AF-ON-Button / DISP-Button (and more of the buttons on the back of the camera assigned to focus) are not the same. And also it is not irrelevant if Auto-AF is your default and you switch out of it using a button, or the other mode is default end you switch into Auto-AF using a button (vice versa).
I mean not ergonomically, and not functionally the same.

If you just start, or restart all over, learning / retrain muscle memory, consider the following points (not all of equal relevance, depending on your shooting habits):


- While using a single point mode, the point can be moved even while auto-focusing. Move the focus box using the sub-selector or the joystick. So this mode goes to a function button i front of the camera, as you want to keep the right thumb free. Or set it as default mode, an engage AF by semi-pressing the shutter. Should you decide to assign single point (or any focus-box) AF modes to the AF-ON-Button or the DISP-Button, you won't be able to focus and move the focus point/area simultaneously.


- Auto-Area-AF as default mode let's you chose faces/eyes, as long as you don't focus simultaneously. The joystick pre-selects a face or eye, an another button engages Autofocus (AF-On, shutter,... other assigned buttons, like on the lens). So this one mode maybe should be chosen as your default mode, because otherwise you might not be able to chose faces prior to focusing.
Another method would be to assign Auto-Area-AF with face- and eye-detection to a function button in front of the camera, but without coupling that with AF-engagement. In this scenario, pressing and holding the Function button changes to AutoArea-AF, the thumb is used to pre-select an eye, and then AF-On or shutter-semi-pressing engages actual focusing.
(That would mean you might work with 3 fingers...)


- Should you chose to have Auto-Area-AF as default mode, you'll never now where your single AF-point will be located in the frame, until you actualle engage that mode. This is true unless you never move it (from the center or any other given point, stored by camera orientation) or are very good at remembering its last position. That might be a non-issue, especially if you use 3-D-tracking starting from a point in the center of the viewfinder. But if your style needs for single points (or areas, boxes) out of center, you can only see the position while using this AF-mode or one depending on the joystick.



Feb 14, 2024 at 05:12 AM
ericbowles
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Eric214 wrote:
Setting up recall shooting functions hold to switch from bird to animal subject detection or anything that you would want to switch to isn't giving you less control. Auto area gives you passive AF tracking and recognition with an error on the box that you can then switch to the subject that's in your frame since you're on animal you can switch between anything that it's recognizing. Giving you more control not less. I've had zero issues with this never having the z9 focus on the wrong subject. Most of the time I'm in bird but when I need something
...Show more

RSF is limited to just one set of settings. For a simple change - like an AF mode or switching off subject detection it's a waste of that mode.

The description of using this approach was not a suggestion from Paul for people who don't know how to use the AF system. It's a technique he personally was using for NFL football and suggesting it as an advanced technique to change modes and allow more control over the specific subject. Paul van Allen is the one who developed and teaches the NPS program on using these new cameras, and I hosted him twice on webinars for Nikonians members.

There are plenty of times when disabling subject detection is useful. In my equestrian photography I might want to photograph the rider using People/eye detection. But I might also want to photograph the horse with a tight close up. Or I might want both rider and horse in focus so I focus on the rider's hands or knee. All of these options could be required within 2-3 seconds for a single rider and horse combination as they approach a jump, go over a jump, and then pass the photographer.

You don't have to use this approach. But to criticize it without ever having thought it through or trying it for appropriate subject matter is narrow minded at best.



Feb 14, 2024 at 06:20 AM
Eric214
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


ericbowles wrote:
RSF is limited to just one set of settings. For a simple change - like an AF mode or switching off subject detection it's a waste of that mode.

The description of using this approach was not a suggestion from Paul for people who don't know how to use the AF system. It's a technique he personally was using for NFL football and suggesting it as an advanced technique to change modes and allow more control over the specific subject. Paul van Allen is the one who developed and teaches the NPS program on using these new cameras, and I hosted
...Show more


That isn't what I said about RSF. You can have a unique RSF setting IN EACH BANK (A, B, C, D) So that is 4 separate banks PLUS an RSF for EACH bank.

And as I have stated, never had a reason to even turn off SD. I guess some people have more issues than others. What you are mentioning hasn't been a problem for me or the people I shoot with. I am not criticizing anything. I simply stated I have never had an issue for the need to disable SD in any situation to date. didn't see a reason why people would and still don't. I know a couple NFL photographers as well. They shoot the Eagles, Ravens and Redskins. They do disable the SD and have no issues either. To each their own i guess. Do what what works for you



Feb 14, 2024 at 11:16 AM
tntcorp1
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Nikon z8 firmware 2.0 wildlife custom settings


Vinnie_VdB wrote:
I could understand the question to ask around what settings somebody was using for his or her wildlife shooting but in fairness, we all should know our Z8 or Z9 by now and understand the new features and how they can or can't help in how we shoot today and make it all the more faster with the extra bells & whistles :-)
Steve Perry has his way of setting up a camera, so will Hudson Henry, Morton Hilmer or RoamingScott :-) I picked ideas from everyone, worked with the camera and found my own settings that are working for
...Show more


but isn't that what the op is doing; soliciting for suggestions to try and use the best fit?




Feb 14, 2024 at 01:15 PM
1      
2
       end






FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.