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What's with the Z8 prices

  
 
sjms
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · What's with the Z8 prices


sandisk has a history of hot cards.

delkin Green is not meant for the grand slam run. now are you are shooting stills at HE*?



Jan 29, 2024 at 06:59 PM
RoamingScott
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · What's with the Z8 prices


Ricci and Irwin closed the book on this conversation almost a year ago.

Heat warnings aren’t overheating. Buy the right card for the job. Use appropriate power and monitor accessories if you’re serious about video shooting. Basic stuff.

https://youtu.be/_DE8y01Ksco



Jan 29, 2024 at 07:04 PM
Joseph Marney
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · What's with the Z8 prices




RoamingScott wrote:
Ricci and Irwin closed the book on this conversation almost a year ago.

Heat warnings aren’t overheating. Buy the right card for the job. Use appropriate power and monitor accessories if you’re serious about video shooting. Basic stuff.

https://youtu.be/_DE8y01Ksco


Excuse me, heat warnings.



Jan 29, 2024 at 07:41 PM
RoamingScott
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · What's with the Z8 prices


It's an important distinction, precision of language is a virtue. The Z8 does not suffer from overheating when used with the appropriate cards and power, even in 8K mode. This is very well documented. No one should be afraid of a heat warning while using a good fast card and appropriate power source. It's how the camera behaves, and in general, will not shut down.

For anyone that didn't brave the 40 minute Irwin video, here's the one still image that matters. There is no reason to fear monger over the Z8 and heat. If you're serious about videography, then you have to take in all angles of what generates heat, and that applies to any camera and any brand.







Want to shoot 100% internal with no overheating, ever? You MUST use the Z9. Such is the way of the world.



Jan 29, 2024 at 09:27 PM
nmerc_photos
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · What's with the Z8 prices


I'm seeing used Z8 prices sub $3000 recently.

Personally, I paid around $3800 for mine and sold it for $3200 after just one trip. And even at that price it was a race to the bottom with like 10 other FM ads for the same camera at the same time. Everyone was unloading them.

I think a lot of people felt like it would be a good backup to a Z9, and found that not to be the case. The two biggest reasons I've seen for not liking the Z9 (outside of all the recalls) are the Z8 battery life being much poorer than expected, and that having 2 different battery types (Z8 + Z9) was more annoying than expected.

Everyone I know personally who tried a Z8 ended up selling it and picking up a Z9 instead, whether it be for their primary camera or secondary.

Anecdotal of course, but I agree with the sentiment that I watch used prices very closely and have never seen a camera body fall off in pricing this fast.



Jan 30, 2024 at 03:11 PM
saaketham
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · What's with the Z8 prices


nmerc_photos wrote:
Everyone I know personally who tried a Z8 ended up selling it and picking up a Z9 ... have never seen a camera body fall off in pricing this fast.


I traded my z8 for a Sony a7R5, mainly because I was disappointed at the AF.
As for falling prices, the a7R5, which is priced the same as the z8, brand new, is doing even worse.
It's $3000 new and $2750 slightly used these days. Grrrrr.
I am not selling mine at this time as I love it, so I am not directly affected, but still quite disappointed at the used prices.




Jan 30, 2024 at 04:50 PM
3catsinky
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · What's with the Z8 prices


i was about to trade mine, but found the Z9 just too heavy.


Jan 30, 2024 at 05:47 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · What's with the Z8 prices


This entire thread feels like some sort of manufactured 'trend'.

1) I look at used gear a lot - and when people sell off bodies en masse, there's a LOT for sale at places like MPB, KEH and my local camera stores. Right now, my local stores have 0 used Z8's for sale. MPB has 3. KEH has 6. That is not a glut of inventory. Meanwhile, KEH has 3 Z9's, and MPB has 13! Z9's for sale...for a body that was more expensive at launch and likely sold a lot fewer bodies overall as a result.

2) The Z8 sold EXTREMELY well for Nikon. It is inevitable that some users had second thoughts about the body. For some it might not have met their expectations. For others, they just realized they didn't need that much camera. But there's always turnover in sales.

3) The depreciation of around 25% on a used body on private forums is not unusual. This is pretty par for the course for digital cameras once the supply chain stabilizes (obviously, if there is a shortage of cameras available new, the used market has minimal discount, or in the case of something like the Fuji X100V, it's more expensive than new).

4) Yes, you can always find some people selling super low on forums to clear inventory fast. This is not unusual. To get a better idea, let's look at going rates at established used retailers. MPB has the Z8 for $3,569 in like new condition - that's 89% of launch price, and 94% of currently available new price. KEH is essentially identical ($15 difference).

Sony A7R V: Roughly the same - like new for $3,500 - new is $3,900 now, for 90% of new.
Canon R8: Here's a drop - Used for $1,200 - launched at $1,500 - 80% of new, and launched roughly at the same time as the Z8.
How about the Z9: It's selling for $4,350 in Like New condition at MPB - that's 79% of new. Significantly lower than the Z8. (KEH prices it higher, though at $4,750 in LN-, for 86% of new...still lower than the Z8.)

My point is: this isn't unusual depreciation for a used camera.




Jan 30, 2024 at 06:36 PM
groob
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · What's with the Z8 prices


Jman13 wrote:
This entire thread feels like some sort of manufactured 'trend'.

1) I look at used gear a lot - and when people sell off bodies en masse, there's a LOT for sale at places like MPB, KEH and my local camera stores. Right now, my local stores have 0 used Z8's for sale. MPB has 3. KEH has 6. That is not a glut of inventory. Meanwhile, KEH has 3 Z9's, and MPB has 13! Z9's for sale...for a body that was more expensive at launch and likely sold a lot fewer bodies overall as a result.

2) The Z8
...Show more

Please don't bring objective data here. Forums are about gut feelings and intuition.



Jan 30, 2024 at 09:15 PM
lukemeup
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · What's with the Z8 prices


Used Z8 for $3000 is a hell of a deal. I may be an outlier but I sold my Z9 and have zero regrets 'downgrading' to a Z8 (if anything my back is more happy when hiking 15-20km in a day).

I can easily shoot 3-4 hours on a single battery (and it's not hard to have additional battery in my pocket). I have not noticed AF to be any worse than the Z9 (that was pre 4.10 - but those changes will eventually come to the Z8).

The only thing I wish I knew is that it will drop 25% off MSRP so quickly - I would have waited to buy one instead of buying at launch.



Jan 30, 2024 at 09:26 PM
 


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nhmorgan
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · What's with the Z8 prices


I can speak to this a little. I bought a z8 at launch and sold it for 3k a few months ago when I picked up a Z9. There is a lot I prefer about the Z9, the two CF cards, GPS (minor but nice), and most of all the battery life. With the Z9, I don't ever have to worry about battery. For example, I shot an event a couple of weeks ago that was a trail ultramarathon from 7am until 6pm and about 8k shots before culling. I never once had to think about putting in the backup battery. I also love the security of shooting two CF cards at once and never worrying about a bottleneck or losing shots if one goes bad. I never had to put in new cards either.
However, the size and weight of the Z9 is just too much, especially when I have to hike to a lot of the places I shoot these days as I do more trail events. I just repurchased a Z8 and plan to sell the Z9 as I can't justify both. The Z8 performs as well as the Z9 in every regard. The downsides are the SD card backup, the stupid card door that doesn't lock an pops open all the time, the missing extra function buttons, and the battery life, which in my experience, sucks. But that form factor is big. I'm flying to an event this weekend and the z9 is just too big and heavy to be convenient for my needs. The Z8 does a lot for it's form factor, but even then, I miss the size of my old a1, which was such a powerhouse for the size. For my needs, I just much prefer to have 95% of the z9 in the smaller z8. I also don't miss the vertical grip as these days I find myself shooting from the LCD screen, because that works much better for low angles, which I never thought I would have 2-3 years ago. For LCD shooting, even for portrait orientations, I prefer the standard grip. For landscape orientation, the vertical grip being on the bottom of the Z9 sometimes prevents being able to get the right angle from the ground. I will deal with having to carry a few extra batteries. They are quick to change out (much faster than when we had to change rolls of film!).
I do think there is some truth to the recalls hurting sales, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used z8 that had been subject to recall, in some ways its a benefit if done recently because Nikon also did a CLA with those when they fixed them, but the recalls definitely hurt the perception of those cameras. The recalls were a pretty minor issue in the grand scheme of things. That's really minor compared to the number of A1s you hear about having motherboard failures. The initial batch of Z9s had a more significant issue that Nikon addressed more quietly with many of them needing the sensor shield replaced because they would get a "press shutter to release error" during shooting.
The fact is that bodies are a poor investment these days because they all depreciate so much faster than they used to. The youtube review culture has created an arms races for what are in reality minor upgrades. Truth is that if someone told me that I could only shoot with a z7 (which are now under 1k used) for the rest of my days, I could take almost all of the shots I can now with one and be just fine. This is true for all platforms, not just Nikon. Even lenses are depreciating more. You can buy 50mm 1.2s all day for around $1400-$1500 or 70-200 2.8s for $1750. I've even seen 14-24 2.8s going for as low as $1350.



Jan 30, 2024 at 09:59 PM
akul
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · What's with the Z8 prices


groob wrote:
Please don't bring objective data here. Forums are about gut feelings and intuition.


Meaning, just a rant board or some sort of amping up session to make some sort of alternative reality with no data? I guess that is part of it.



Jan 30, 2024 at 10:04 PM
snapsy
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · What's with the Z8 prices


Jman13 wrote:
This entire thread feels like some sort of manufactured 'trend'.

1) I look at used gear a lot - and when people sell off bodies en masse, there's a LOT for sale at places like MPB, KEH and my local camera stores. Right now, my local stores have 0 used Z8's for sale. MPB has 3. KEH has 6. That is not a glut of inventory. Meanwhile, KEH has 3 Z9's, and MPB has 13! Z9's for sale...for a body that was more expensive at launch and likely sold a lot fewer bodies overall as a result.

2) The Z8
...Show more

What other prosumer MILCs have depreciated 25% in the first six months of their introduction? Depreciation is a function of time - the bodies you're comparing the Z8 to have been on the market longer so the comparisons aren't valid.



Jan 30, 2024 at 10:11 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · What's with the Z8 prices


snapsy wrote:
What other prosumer MILCs have depreciated 25% in the first six months of their introduction? Depreciation is a function of time - the bodies you're comparing the Z8 to have been on the market longer so the comparisons aren't valid.


First, the Z8 has been out for 8 months, not 6.

The R8, listed in that list, was literally released within a couple weeks of the Z8, and has depreciated faster.

Maybe you want a higher end body - Ok:
The Sony A7CR has been out for 5 months...and it's currently selling on B&S in the $2,300 range...That's....wait for it...right about 25% depreciation. And it's from Sony.

The Canon R6 Mark II is selling on B&S for $1,900. It's a bit older than the Z8, but we can't all get release dates synced...point is, it's a fairly recent body. That's a depreciation of.....about 25%.

The Panasonic S5 II is selling on B&S for $1,200. It was released a year ago...that's a depreciation of 40% from new, and 34% from current price.

Again, this is not unusual deprecation. 25% off new is pretty much the accepted private-party used price for a current digital interchangeable lens camera that doesn't have any stock problems. Are there exceptions? Sure. But to suggest the Z8 is out of the ordinary in this regard is simply wrong.



Jan 30, 2024 at 10:57 PM
RoamingScott
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · What's with the Z8 prices


You guys want some salt? Try being an A7R4 buyer when the $2500 EDU deal came out. 33% discount on new units after 4 months on the market. People on the Sony boards were knotted into pretzels over that.

You guys need a serious history lesson!

Edited on Jan 30, 2024 at 11:13 PM · View previous versions



Jan 30, 2024 at 11:10 PM
snapsy
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · What's with the Z8 prices


Jman13 wrote:
First, the Z8 has been out for 8 months, not 6.

The R8, listed in that list, was literally released within a couple weeks of the Z8, and has depreciated faster.

Maybe you want a higher end body - Ok:
The Sony A7CR has been out for 5 months...and it's currently selling on B&S in the $2,300 range...That's....wait for it...right about 25% depreciation. And it's from Sony.

The Canon R6 Mark II is selling on B&S for $1,900. It's a bit older than the Z8, but we can't all get release dates synced...point is, it's a fairly recent body. That's
...Show more

The Z8's resale price was -25% six months after its introduction.

R8 is a consumer body.

Sony's has significant EDU discounts on their bodies, which immediately filter into the used supply at discounted prices.

The R6 Mark II has been available for 6 months longer than the Z8.



Jan 30, 2024 at 11:10 PM
snapsy
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · What's with the Z8 prices


RoamingScott wrote:
You guys want some salt? Try being an A7R4 buyer when the $2500 EDU deal came out. People on the Sony boards were knotted into pretzels over that.


Yep, Sony's EDU discounts have stung owners on a few different models.



Jan 30, 2024 at 11:12 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · What's with the Z8 prices


snapsy wrote:
The Z8's resale price was -25% six months after its introduction.

R8 is a consumer body.

Sony's has significant EDU discounts on their bodies, which immediately filter into the used supply at discounted prices.

The R6 Mark II has been available for 6 months longer than the Z8.


So you’re saying there’s no way to objectively measure this due to staggered release dates.

Or you could just admit that this is pretty normal. But no, keep rolling out those excuses to manufacture outrage.

The reality is that in a stable new supply, no one is going to pay 90% of new for a used body with zero warranty (private party). And no one is going to pay 95% of new for a store warranty (MPB). Where do they sell? Around 20-25% of new for private party. Because that’s where it makes sense to buy. Few people are going to shell out $3600 for a used Z8 with no warranty.

Oh…and I went back in the B&S forum 6 months…and what do you know. An R6 II for sale for $2000, WITH a vertical grip and spare battery. That’s $2000 for a $2850 package…or 30% below new at roughly the same age as the Z8. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1820109/0?keyword=R6,II#16312470



Edited on Jan 30, 2024 at 11:27 PM · View previous versions



Jan 30, 2024 at 11:18 PM
snapsy
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · What's with the Z8 prices


Jman13 wrote:
So you’re saying there’s no way to objectively measure this due to staggered release dates.

Or you could just admit that this is pretty normal. But no, keep rolling out those excuses to manufacture outrage.

The reality is that in a stable new supply, no one is going to pay 90% of new for a used body with zero warranty (private party). And no one is going to pay 95% of new for a store warranty (MPB). Where do they sell? Around 20-25% of new for private party. Because that’s where it makes sense to buy. Few people are going
...Show more

There's an objective way to measure it - compare the prices at identical intervals relative to each camera's introduction. Again, depreciation is a function of time.

A 25% haircut 6 months into a prosumer body's product cycle is not normal.

As for the outrage, I'm not seeing that ouside of a few posts, otherwise this seems like a pretty dispassionate discussion to me.



Jan 30, 2024 at 11:27 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · What's with the Z8 prices




snapsy wrote:
There's an objective way to measure it - compare the prices at identical intervals relative to each camera's introduction. Again, depreciation is a function of time.

A 25% haircut 6 months into a prosumer body's product cycle is not normal.

As for the outrage, I'm not seeing that ouside of a few posts, otherwise this seems like a pretty dispassionate discussion to me.


I’ve now posted multiple examples at the same interval, all showing similar depreciation. With multiple manufacturers.



Jan 30, 2024 at 11:29 PM
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