Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              27      
28
       29       30       31       end
  

Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review

  
 
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #1 · p.28 #1 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


joakim wrote:
Some with the SL2 edited to taste. There's clearly some colourcast occurring



Is the color casting ... mostly a byproduct of use on the SL? Does the (for those using on M) color casting disappear on the M sensor (stack / microlens) bodies, or is it there, also?

The "alternating" colors in the bottom left corner of the bridge shot catch my attention. Curious to see the sooc / raw (noting if that is with / without profile baked in) before edits.



Feb 26, 2024 at 11:45 AM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #2 · p.28 #2 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


RustyBug wrote:
Is the color casting ... mostly a byproduct of use on the SL? Does the (for those using on M) color casting disappear on the M sensor (stack / microlens) bodies, or is it there, also?

The "alternating" colors in the bottom left corner of the bridge shot catch my attention. Curious to see the sooc / raw (noting if that is with / without profile baked in) before edits.


I see zero color cast on the S5IIX with this lens. Even a hint of magenta bias in the white balance will give the appearance of a color cast in the corners of a blue sky when vignetting is present.



Feb 26, 2024 at 12:16 PM
rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #3 · p.28 #3 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


joakim wrote:
Some with the SL2 edited to taste. There's clearly some colourcast occurring

RustyBug wrote:
Is the color casting ... mostly a byproduct of use on the SL? Does the (for those using on M) color casting disappear on the M sensor (stack / microlens) bodies, or is it there, also?

The "alternating" colors in the bottom left corner of the bridge shot catch my attention. Curious to see the sooc / raw (noting if that is with / without profile baked in) before edits.


I think it's going to be camera dependent. For example, I don't recall reading about edge color shift problems here on FM with the VM 28/2 v2 but in hindsight I think everyone was shooting it at least on M10 and newer, or Sony BSI sensors... meanwhile, when I got mine last year, it was quickly apparent that no matter which lens profile I assigned to it in-camera, it produced cyan/blue edge color shifts on my M240. Hence the reason I asked early in this thread for any feedback about this lens on the M240 series... M9 will also be another matter, considering how it was more prone to edge color shifts than the M240.



Feb 26, 2024 at 12:59 PM
oscartb
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #4 · p.28 #4 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


RustyBug wrote:
Does the (for those using on M) color casting disappear on the M sensor (stack / microlens) bodies, or is it there, also?



Leica M10-R here, no color cast as far as I can tell. No profiles applied and no in camera coding.



Feb 26, 2024 at 04:10 PM
thrice
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #5 · p.28 #5 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


RustyBug wrote:
Does the (for those using on M) color casting disappear on the M sensor (stack / microlens) bodies, or is it there, also?


Yep.

No coding/corrections, f/1.5 first then f/4. M10-R.






Feb 26, 2024 at 05:26 PM
serhan_
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #6 · p.28 #6 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


Bastian's 28mm comparison is posted:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/comparison-fast-28mm-f-1-2-f-1-4-f-1-5-fullframe-lenses/



Feb 26, 2024 at 06:56 PM
Paul.S
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #7 · p.28 #7 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


joakim wrote:
Some with the SL2 edited to taste. There's clearly some colourcast occurring in some photos and purple fringing as well but overall a lens to like



Where are you seeing the colour cast? From what I have read it appears most prominent in the corners.

Apart from the first shot on the glass panels, which I believe is either the make up of the glass (reinforcing properties) or dirt/ice on the glass panel's reflecting a different colour. I can't see any?

If you ever go through Dubai airport you'll see everything from rainbow, green tint, a rusty brown and polarised effect on there glass panel's.

Clarity and Dehaze sliders can do weird things with colours as well.

Good luck



Feb 26, 2024 at 07:19 PM
thrice
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #8 · p.28 #8 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


serhan_ wrote:
Bastian's 28mm comparison is posted:
https://phillipreeve.net/blog/comparison-fast-28mm-f-1-2-f-1-4-f-1-5-fullframe-lenses/


Other than size and sharpness it gets crucified. I own one but haven't shot that much with it. Sad to see it outclassed by the Thypoch in rendering, bokeh and PF.



Feb 26, 2024 at 09:17 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #9 · p.28 #9 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


thrice wrote:
Other than size and sharpness it gets crucified. I own one but haven't shot that much with it. Sad to see it outclassed by the Thypoch in rendering, bokeh and PF.


The Thypoch should outclass it given its size. If I were to buy the Thypoch it would be to use it as a small lens on a big camera not as a big lens on a small camera.

For me for use on an M camera, the Voigtlander 28 1.5 is a truly usable size. It gives me a lot of light for shooting and a rendering and sharpness that doesn't suck. Bonus: infinity performance at f/5.6 makes it extremely useful for landscape.

All the lenses reviewed have notable drawbacks. Small wide aperture 28mm lenses are difficult to design and manufacture. And they get reviewed with the same scrutiny that wide aperture longer focal lengths do. 24mm and wider lenses get looked at in an entirely different way.



Feb 26, 2024 at 09:35 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #10 · p.28 #10 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


thrice wrote:
Other than size and sharpness it gets crucified. I own one but haven't shot that much with it. Sad to see it outclassed by the Thypoch in rendering, bokeh and PF.


Being outclassed in rendering/bokeh... that must be a new measure as I find this to be very subjective. Yes, we can still test things out, but the overall image is what counts. Personally, I wouldn't swap the CV 28/1.5 Nokton for any other 28mm lens. It's my favorite, with the Leica 28/1.4 Lux coming in second place just because it's heavier/bigger but still produces a similar output to my eyes.



Feb 26, 2024 at 09:47 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

thrice
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #11 · p.28 #11 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
Being outclassed in rendering/bokeh... that must be a new measure as I find this to be very subjective. .


I would usually agree but yeesh I can't imagine anyone choosing the VM bokeh over the Thypoch. Maybe you got a golden copy and there's something wrong with Bastian's haha.

I think the Thypoch has inverse field curvature at all focus distances, it will be interesting to see a fresh comparison when Bastian gets a production sample. looking at the coma tests there's something off with his Thypoch at infinity.

Edited on Feb 26, 2024 at 10:15 PM · View previous versions



Feb 26, 2024 at 10:03 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #12 · p.28 #12 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


thrice wrote:
...but yeesh I can't imagine anyone choosing the VM bokeh over the Thypoch...


If all I shot were lens tests, I would agree.



Feb 26, 2024 at 10:12 PM
thrice
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #13 · p.28 #13 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


highdesertmesa wrote:
If all I shot were lens tests, I would agree.


Do you shoot better stuff than Bastian? I've always found his samples and tests exceptional.

Do you have better real-world comparisons between these two lenses?



Feb 26, 2024 at 10:16 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #14 · p.28 #14 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


thrice wrote:
Do you shoot better stuff than Bastian? I've always found his samples and tests exceptional.

Do you have better real-world comparisons between these two lenses?


His samples are designed to elicit differences between the lenses at varying distances, and it's extremely informative and helpful for how these lenses compare [edited to remove incorrect info]. The 28 1.5 works for what I shoot on my M11M. The Thypoch would not work for that even if it had better bokeh than God because it's bigger than what I want to be using on an M camera. I may purchase the Thypoch but not for use on an M body. By the same token, the 28 1.5 might not be my first choice for non-M use.

Edited on Feb 27, 2024 at 10:20 AM · View previous versions



Feb 26, 2024 at 10:28 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #15 · p.28 #15 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


thrice wrote:
I would usually agree but yeesh I can't imagine anyone choosing the VM bokeh over the Thypoch. Maybe you got a golden copy and there's something wrong with Bastian's haha.

I think the Thypoch has inverse field curvature at all focus distances, it will be interesting to see a fresh comparison when Bastian gets a production sample. looking at the coma tests there's something off with his Thypoch at infinity.


I think what you find pleasing in terms of bokeh and rendering might not match someone else's preferences. Personally, I'm not a big fan of excessively smooth rendering; I prefer it when there's a bit more character and structure in the out-of-focus areas. But, of course, that's just my personal taste, and I don't believe a lens that offers that is necessarily superior or inferior to others.



Feb 27, 2024 at 12:32 AM
BastianK
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #16 · p.28 #16 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
I think what you find pleasing in terms of bokeh and rendering might not match someone else's preferences. Personally, I'm not a big fan of excessively smooth rendering; I prefer it when there's a bit more character and structure in the out-of-focus areas. But, of course, that's just my personal taste, and I don't believe a lens that offers that is necessarily superior or inferior to others.

I have yet to find someone who can tell me what is great about that field curvature bringing the corners back into focus even though they shouldn't be.
I find that objectively wrong, ugly and distracting. I am also pretty sure it is the reason the Laowa 28mm 1.2 and 45mm 0.95 did not gather a lot of fans.

highdesertmesa wrote:
His samples are designed to elicit differences between the lenses at varying distances, and it's extremely informative and helpful for how these lenses compare on a non-M sensor.

Had you read the comparison you would have noticed that all the tests of the M-mount lenses have been conducted on a Leica M10.

highdesertmesa wrote:
If all I shot were lens tests, I would agree.

Also here I wonder if you actually had a look at that article.
I don't know of anyone else who goes through the trouble of comparing no less than six lenses and even finding a model to sit still long enough to dial through all of them.
I wish someone else did that, because then I wouldn't have to and could spend my time with something way more enjoyable.



Feb 27, 2024 at 02:01 AM
oscartb
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #17 · p.28 #17 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


I chose the VM primarily for size and ergonomics, the bokeh is fine for me. For me the primary advantage of the f/1.5 is light gathering for shooting on film, bokeh characteristics are pretty far down in my priorities. No one will see the bokeh if I lose it all to camera shake

I had the (dis)pleasure of handling a Thypoch 35mm on Sunday that a friend was testing out. Size was a bit much for an M camera and the infinity lock was downright miserable to contend with. We reckoned with a dremel tool it could be fixed, though I doubt that's good for the optical alignment inside the lens. The alpa style DoF indicators were neat, but it's not exactly hard to figure out a regular DoF scale. Presumably the 28 is the same.

People can show me comparisons all they want, but I want a compact fast 28mm that isn't $5k, and Voigtlander is the only company making one.



Feb 27, 2024 at 02:56 AM
CookieDough14
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #18 · p.28 #18 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


thrice wrote:
Other than size and sharpness it gets crucified. I own one but haven't shot that much with it. Sad to see it outclassed by the Thypoch in rendering, bokeh and PF.


The Thypoch wins at the price of worse contrast wide open. IMO, good contrast can more than make up a lot for worse resolution, you get a better perception of the picture, that is basically the story of Zeiss over the years.

I ultimately went for the CV 28mm f1.5 instead of the Thypoch, size is also a major influencer. I may still consider the Thypoch when they revise it with better mechanics.




Feb 27, 2024 at 03:09 AM
oscartb
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.28 #19 · p.28 #19 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


While I've already decided on and bought my fast 28, I do appreciate Bastian's comparison. The flare analysis is particularly helpful for me since with film there is no way to know if flare has caused issues.

As a flare-hater I'm quite diligent with hoods and avoid flare-prone lenses as best I can. Good to know the Nokton 28 did well, I already have a hood for it but the article helps with confidence when shooting against the sun.

Anecdotally, I feel like generally the Voigtlander lenses have better flare resistance than their Leica equivalents.



Feb 27, 2024 at 03:40 AM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.28 #20 · p.28 #20 · Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton Review


One thing that Bastian's (and Fred's, etc.) tests show ... is just how much disparity there exists in optical design choices / options / approaches. While this is true of many tests and is always true of optics in general, the polarity of attributes in this one has been an order of magnitude that makes the diff's VERY EASY to see.

By that, the issues of bokeh, contrast, size, weight, field curvature, resolution, etc. are of such difference, that words like "crucified" wouldn't be in use, if the diff's were only marginal or incremental. So, here again, we have the matter of "choose your poison(s)". For some, the size and weight of the Typoch is the poison they choose to NOT have. For others, the field curvature and vignetting are the poisons they choose to NOT have. And for others, the lack of contrast or resolution is the poison they choose to NOT have.

It's been more than a decade since the good folks here in the Alt Forum (some have moved on) made me realize / understand that the bevy of attributes in optics makes it absolutely impossible for ALL aspects of optics to be optimized, as certain attributes are diametrically opposed. In that manner, I adopted the "choose your poison(s)" perspective in lieu of the "better" (at a single attribute).

Sharpness / Resolution vs. Bokeh
Size / Weight vs. Vignetting
Corners vs. Field Curvature
Field Curvature vs. Separation
Size / Weight vs. Speed
Contrast vs. Flare Resistance
Etc.

To that end, we all have different reasons for different poison(s) being to our intense disdain. Some folks find the size / weight matter their most intense poison. Others find bokeh or CA, theirs. For yet others, it's vignetting and distortion or field curvature. At the end of the day, ALL OPTICS have their poison(s) ... so we often choose those that have the least amount of poison(s) that concern our wants, desires and needs. Great optics typically do a good job of balancing out things so that the magnitude of them are low. While other lenses can be made much more inexpensively, if they will forego one (or more) of those attributes.

And, by the term of "expense" ... that isn't just in terms of dollars, but size and weight, haptics, field curvature, vignetting etc. are other forms of the expense, that is part of the quid pro quo that are inherent to optics.

Choose your poison(s). Others will choose theirs. Just because someone finds their disdain for a given attribute to be intense ... that neither invalidates, nor validates the choices that each of us make. We all have to live with the choices we make.

Tests like Bastian's (and Fred's, etc.) make it easier to see the diff's those poisons bring to the table. That doesn't make it easier for everyone to come similar decisions ... in reality it makes it easier for folks to come to different decisions. And, there will always be different folks, opting to avoid different poison(s), for different reasons.

My reason(s) may not be someone else's ... but, they are still the ones that I have to live with ... not anyone else. And, it cuts the other way, too. I don't have to live with the choices that someone else makes. They make their choice and they live with it, regardless of whether I find it a choice I'd make or not. No such thing as a perfect optic ... they all have their poison(s).


Choose your poison(s), wisely.
They'll be the things that bother you the most ... and reduce your joy, the worst. And, realize that others may drink from a different cup than you.
And, sometimes those same poison(s) to one person ... are another person's "character" (i.e. characteristic) of choice.




Feb 27, 2024 at 07:14 AM
1       2       3              27      
28
       29       30       31       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              27      
28
       29       30       31       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.