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When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?

  
 
LBJ2
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


Steve Spencer wrote:
Keep in mind that this survey is not from Leica. It is from Leica Society International a group of photographers interested in Leica products. IMO, it tells us close to nothing about whether Leica is planning or even considering making such a camera.


Good point. I thought this was a Leica survey. Interesting.



Jan 25, 2024 at 11:50 AM
raizans
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, GM, HM, IM, JM, KM, LM, MM, NM, OM, PM, QM, RM, SM, TM, UM, VM, WM, XM, YM, ZM.

I vote for RM - the melding of M-mount with a TTL viewfinder, in honor of the R-mount.

The RM1 is coming soon to a Leica Store near you!



Jan 26, 2024 at 10:39 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


SlowDriver wrote:
Is that the case though? The last two times I was in a Leica boutique I was told that the Q outsells the M. I will ask again next time.



I don't know which sells more the Q or the M lines. I was in Beverly Hills yesterday on some other business so stopped in for a short time at Leica Store Los Angeles. First time I got out without buying anything. They told me that amazingly enough the Q3 remains on backorder status, but that the wait is less than two Months now. You can buy any of the current M cameras off the shelf. Another surprise was that they said the M10 cameras are seeing strong demand and getting harder to find now that the people trading up to an M11 have slowed a bit. Some versions of the M10 have seen price recovery recently because of this.

I know that Leica itself is also doing consumer research on an EVF hybrid M camera. Hard to tell which way they are leaning on this.



Jan 27, 2024 at 12:49 AM
chiron
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


1bwana1 wrote:
I don't know which sells more the Q or the M lines. I was in Beverly Hills yesterday on some other business so stopped in for a short time at Leica Store Los Angeles. First time I got out without buying anything. They told me that amazingly enough the Q3 remains on backorder status, but that the wait is less than two Months now. You can buy any of the current M cameras off the shelf. Another surprise was that they said the M10 cameras are seeing strong demand and getting harder to find now that the people trading up
...Show more


It would be so interesting if Leica would "evolve" a small, high-quality rangefinder body by adding things like an EVF, hybrid or otherwise. Of course, the ultimate transition to a modern Leica rangefinder would be adding autofocus to small lenses in a small body. And image-stabilization.

I guess the issue then becomes whether they would be distinguishable enough as a marketing segment to separate them from Sony and others.

I think they could do it. Personally, I have always thought that what makes Leica special was not tied specifically to rangefinder optics and manual focusing. It is rather quality and form factor, which could easily translate to a modern rangefinder camera. But of course I know that others might disagree.

Imagine if Sony made an A1C with Leica style? Imagine if Leica did?



Jan 27, 2024 at 09:49 AM
1bwana1
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


chiron wrote:
It would be so interesting if Leica would "evolve" a small, high-quality rangefinder body by adding things like an EVF, hybrid or otherwise. Of course, the ultimate transition to a modern Leica rangefinder would be adding autofocus to small lenses in a small body. And image-stabilization.

I guess the issue then becomes whether they would be distinguishable enough as a marketing segment to separate them from Sony and others.

I think they could do it. Personally, I have always thought that what makes Leica special was not tied specifically to rangefinder optics and manual focusing. It is rather quality and form factor,
...Show more

I think the phenomenon of the Q line of cameras shows that Leica can be successful in the mirrorless camera space competing against Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, and the others. The Q is really just a low performing (in comparison), fixed lens FF mirrorless camera that is priced much higher than technically better cameras. However it encompasses a unique experience when shooting due to its form factor and simplicity. Amazingly still in backorder status as of today. It is a powerful gateway camera into the the Leica M system, and Leica is happy with lower volumes than the others.

The SL line is also a typical mirrorless camera system. It doesn't compete well against the other major players. Its form factor is so bloated, expensive, limited in lenses, and accessories that many fewer people. I still don't get why anyone would buy one. Maybe they are just Leica fans through other product lines.

Leica has tried a number of other compact mirrorless camera lines. They have not fared too well.

The M is attractive for reasons of its unique shooting experience, build, super small unique lenses, and of course heritage. I do think that a lot can be done to advance the M system with focus aides, hybrid RF/EVF, better rear screen, better optional EVF system, faster sensors, and processors, IBIS. I doubt that Leica can keep lens size down with fast high optical performance glass that implements AF, stabilization, and electronic connection. I doubt anyone can. AF is the last direction I want Leica to take the M line. There are so many other valuable places to improve things. But even with that, I love the shooting experience, and IQ I currently get from my M11. Happy to stay with it just the way it is too.




Jan 27, 2024 at 11:58 AM
stgrove
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


raizans wrote:
AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, GM, HM, IM, JM, KM, LM, MM, NM, OM, PM, QM, RM, SM, TM, UM, VM, WM, XM, YM, ZM.

I vote for RM - the melding of M-mount with a TTL viewfinder, in honor of the R-mount.

The RM1 is coming soon to a Leica Store near you!

I vote for any name they want to give as long as some small (i.e., M or Q sized) interchangeable camera is introduced.



Jan 27, 2024 at 12:06 PM
stgrove
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


1bwana1 wrote:
The SL line is also a typical mirrorless camera system. It doesn't compete well against the other major players. Its form factor is so bloated, expensive, limited in lenses, and accessories that many fewer people. I still don't get why anyone would buy one. Maybe they are just Leica fans through other product lines.



I bought the SL2S due to its 24MP BSI sensor. I could care less about video. I harken back to the 24MP sensors from my M240,M246,M10 days and found back then I was happy at that MP level. With a 23 FW update the Sl2S's focusing is amazing with faces. The APO primes are incredibly good. IMHO, that's why.



Jan 27, 2024 at 12:14 PM
LBJ2
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


1bwana1 wrote:
I think the phenomenon of the Q line of cameras shows that Leica can be successful in the mirrorless camera space competing against Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji, and the others. The Q is really just a low performing (in comparison), fixed lens FF mirrorless camera that is priced much higher than technically better cameras. However it encompasses a unique experience when shooting due to its form factor and simplicity. Amazingly still in backorder status as of today. It is a powerful gateway camera into the the Leica M system, and Leica is happy with lower volumes than the others.

The SL
...Show more

The SL2 is a larger camera but also feels a very good balance with Leica SL APO Primes. The APO Primes are of course the best Leica Full Frame lenses Leica has ever made.

Not so well known I think Sony Emount is the only other mirrorless system to have more mirrorless lenses then L-mount lenses to include AF, MF, FF/APS-C and 3rd Party lenses. https://lesdeuxpiedsdehors.com/en/lenses-for-l-mount/








Jan 27, 2024 at 12:31 PM
SlowDriver
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


Sometimes there is (a sprinkle of) hope... Somebody posted this on LUF:

The Leica CL (2017) truly has the proportions of the original film Leica, which means it is smaller than a Leica M and a Leica Q. The fact that it had an APS-C sensor was the reason for its death sentence in 2022. But a new full-frame version is expected in 2024 as a way to use L-mount lenses on a smaller camera body. © Thorsten Overgaard..

I couldn't immediately find this on his site but it might be hidden behind the pay wall.



Jan 27, 2024 at 06:37 PM
stgrove
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


RE SL2S:
Using the MF mode under Focus Mode decouples the focus from the shutter release letting one push in the rear joystick for focus (the focus point of course can be moved anywhere in the image frame) and the one can recompose or whatever without changing the focus point and then shoot as desired. Why keep two of the most important features on one button-the shutter button.

Another GREAT feature is the multi-shot mode where one can use this with static, like landscape shots, and get a 96MP image which comes out as a single DNG image where the camera shifts the sensor a half pixel in each direction for 8 shots and then combines them in camera. On the SL2 it creates a 188MP single image. So who needs a 100MP camera when I can have one at the click of a button. As a matter of fact I put the Drive Mode on the bottom front button and can shift between single, bracketing or multi-shot with ease. that way



Jan 27, 2024 at 07:19 PM
 


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Steve Spencer
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


SlowDriver wrote:
Sometimes there is (a sprinkle of) hope... Somebody posted this on LUF:

The Leica CL (2017) truly has the proportions of the original film Leica, which means it is smaller than a Leica M and a Leica Q. The fact that it had an APS-C sensor was the reason for its death sentence in 2022. But a new full-frame version is expected in 2024 as a way to use L-mount lenses on a smaller camera body. © Thorsten Overgaard..

I couldn't immediately find this on his site but it might be hidden behind the pay wall.


This is something I can see Leica doing. A CL sized camera with L-mount and the same 60 MP sensor as is in the SL3, would be a compelling product. They would probably price it at least $5,000 US dollars. It would still be a luxury camera built with style. From a usability standpoint, an M to L adapter would still allow the use of M lenses and they could also make a few new lenses with electronic contacts and focus confirmation.

A set of small manual focus lens that are not corrected as well as the APO crons but have electronic contacts and focus confirmation could be a big hit. They could be a lot like the Voigtlander lenses for Sony E, Nikon Z, and Canon RF mount. Something like a 21 f/3.4 Asph, a 28 cron Asph, a 35 f/2.4 Asph, 35 lux Asph, a 50 f/2.4 Asph, a 50 lux Asph, a 75 f/2.4 Asph, a 90 f/2.4 Asph, and a 135 f/3.4 APO would be an awesome set of lenses and for those who have to have AF, there is always the Sigma i-series lenses which are small and pretty decent. The Leica badged MF lenses could have a slightly new design with new lens hood (no need to worry about blocking the viewfinder), new aperture mechanisms (I would love them to steal from Voigtlander and make them all 12 straight blade apertures but rounded at f/2.8, and f/5.6), and nice short MFDs. This would let them charge Leica M prices for these lenses.

This camera would still be unique--it would have a thin sensor stack and be designed for MF lenses--but it would take AF lenses and it would not really compete much with M cameras as the M cameras are still defined by the rangefinder. I think such a path forward for a small EVF Leica camera could make sense and largely satisfy those who want an EVF but don't want a rangefinder.



Jan 28, 2024 at 09:17 AM
1bwana1
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


Steve Spencer wrote:
This is something I can see Leica doing. A CL sized camera with L-mount and the same 60 MP sensor as is in the SL3, would be a compelling product. They would probably price it at least $5,000 US dollars. It would still be a luxury camera built with style. From a usability standpoint, an M to L adapter would still allow the use of M lenses and they could also make a few new lenses with electronic contacts and focus confirmation.

A set of small manual focus lens that are not corrected as well as the APO crons
...Show more


In theory I really like this idea, but when I look at the lenses they are way too big, They are just APS-C lenses, Full Frame version would be even bigger.

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/cameras/cl-tl/cl-black

Leica, just build us an M with optimized optional EVF or hybrid RF, the best rear screen in the industry, IBIS, and some advanced focus confirmation when using the EVF/LCD Screen. I am building a very nice M lens set I hope to keep the rest of my life and maybe in the hereafter too. After all, it can't be called Heaven without cameras.



Jan 28, 2024 at 02:10 PM
wolfloid
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


A CL sized camera with L-mount and the same 60 MP sensor as is in the SL3, would be a compelling product.

This sounds much like the Sony A7Cr camera line, but unlikely to be as well implemented. Still stuck with oversized L lenses. Even the very nice Sigma Contemporary lenses dwarf most M lenses. The whole point of a Leica M EVF is Small lenses.

Leica, just build us an M with optimized optional EVF or hybrid RF, the best rear screen in the industry, IBIS, and some advanced focus confirmation when using the EVF/LCD Screen.

Much more like it.



Jan 28, 2024 at 02:23 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


1bwana1 wrote:
In theory I really like this idea, but when I look at the lenses they are way too big, They are just APS-C lenses, Full Frame version would be even bigger.

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/cameras/cl-tl/cl-black

Leica, just build us an M with optimized optional EVF or hybrid RF, the best rear screen in the industry, IBIS, and some advanced focus confirmation when using the EVF/LCD Screen. I am building a very nice M lens set I hope to keep the rest of my life and maybe in the hereafter too. After all, it can't be called Heaven without cameras.


I think you aren't understanding what I am proposing. I am suggesting that Leica might choose to make L-mount versions of some of their M-mount lenses but with electric contacts so those lenses can have auto-aperture and focus confirmation. They would be slightly bigger than the M-mount lenses, but not by much.

The difference in size would be similar to the difference between Voigtlander M-mount lenses and the Sony E, Nikon Z, and Canon RF mount versions.



Jan 28, 2024 at 06:21 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


Steve Spencer wrote:
I think you aren't understanding what I am proposing. I am suggesting that Leica might choose to make L-mount versions of some of their M-mount lenses but with electric contacts so those lenses can have auto-aperture and focus confirmation. They would be slightly bigger than the M-mount lenses, but not by much.

The difference in size would be similar to the difference between Voigtlander M-mount lenses and the Sony E, Nikon Z, and Canon RF mount versions.


That would require a whole new line of lenses. A big ask of a company like Leica. I think shrinking the SL body, and developing some lenses like you envision would be a more practical approach.

I will stick to my M line and hope for some amazing new hardware and software features.




Jan 28, 2024 at 06:43 PM
dalegaspi
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


1bwana1 wrote:
The SL line is also a typical mirrorless camera system. It doesn't compete well against the other major players. Its form factor is so bloated, expensive, limited in lenses, and accessories that many fewer people. I still don't get why anyone would buy one. Maybe they are just Leica fans through other product lines.



for my shooting preferences, i absolutely love the SL system, and not just because it's a Leica...the SL APO primes are amazing and I prefer its ergonomics and design language over other L-mount cameras. After shooting with the SL2 and loving the system, it was enough for me to get rid of my Sony...i thought that would not happen, but here i am. but hey, that's me.



Jan 28, 2024 at 07:18 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


1bwana1 wrote:
That would require a whole new line of lenses. A big ask of a company like Leica. I think shrinking the SL body, and developing some lenses like you envision would be a more practical approach.

I will stick to my M line and hope for some amazing new hardware and software features.



I think you are still not getting what I am proposing. I am not proposing a new line of lenses that are designed and built from scratch. I am proposing a reworking of some of the M lenses so they now have an L-mount, and electronics so they now have auto-aperture, focus confirmation, and a much shorter MFD. It really is a different mount for the lenses they already have with some adjustment for that mount the allow functionality that adapted M lenses would never have. What we are really talking about is a small EVF camera and reuse of designs they already have that have been optimized for an EVF camera.



Jan 29, 2024 at 06:38 AM
wolfloid
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


I am proposing a reworking of some of the M lenses so they now have an L-mount, and electronics so they now have auto-aperture, focus confirmation, and a much shorter MFD.

If that can be done with a minimal increase in size, then maybe.

However, I have the Sony E mount 40mm f 1.2, and it is substantially larger and heavier than the M mount version.

Plus, and for me this decides it, I already have a good set of very reliable M lenses that would work well enough for me on an M mount EVF camera - better than they do on an SL with adapter. I donít want to buy a whole new slew of lenses.



Jan 29, 2024 at 07:17 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


Simple reason why Leica will never attempt to modify existing M lenses for AF with L-mount: they don't want to interfere with SL series sales including L lenses and AF capability. And it would be too costly for Leica to go into such additional modified lens direction.


Jan 29, 2024 at 08:07 AM
Stephen G
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · When will a 3rd Leica EVF camera come out?


What if Leica is slowly setting up for this already as they slowly sweep through updating lenses in each focal length for non-RF coupled close focus MFD ?


Jan 29, 2024 at 08:14 AM
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