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Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?

  
 
Joseph Marney
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


Geoff D F wrote:
These "what if" discussions can be fun, but it needs to be recognised that it is never going to happen.

Putting together all the facts as I see it, JIP is likely doing a managed exit from the industry. Olympus had the choice to either end camera production or sell. I guess they chose to sell because ending production would be an admission of failure - tough for a Japanese company. JIP is a company with no real interest in cameras and doesn't have a reputation for turning companies around, so much as extracting value from failing assets.

JIP
...Show more

Unfortunately, the facts being what they are, I believe your synopsis is likely correct. I've been researching JIP's other acquisitions, and I don't see a very coherent portfolio. I was hoping maybe their recent Toshiba buy-out would include some foundries. Toshiba was also hit with scandal and mismanagement when JIP made their move.

Maybe we can hold out a little hope. Hasselblad came back from the Lunar and Stellar, after all.




Feb 07, 2024 at 12:02 AM
memzinla
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


I would love a FF camera.


Feb 07, 2024 at 12:32 AM
gmccroskery
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


memzinla wrote:
I would love a FF camera.


Last time I checked, there were a whole lot of them available for purchase. Get one and enjoy.

Greg



Feb 07, 2024 at 12:26 PM
olegkin
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


gmccroskery wrote:
Last time I checked, there were a whole lot of them available for purchase. Get one and enjoy.

Greg


One would think it is a no brainer to make different frame ratios in cameras, and grey out a little bit edges outside of frame, but keep edges visible. 3/4, or 4/5, or 1/1 aspect ratio, and you can see what is walking in into frame on the edges. And then save those crops into raw files. Still, nobody does it, afaik.
Leica did something like this with Q series for a different reason, and look, it is everybody's favorite



Feb 08, 2024 at 08:22 AM
olegkin
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


memzinla wrote:
I would love a FF camera.


It is called GFX

GFX with Oly features/firmware would be complete bonkers though!



Feb 08, 2024 at 10:54 AM
e6filmuser
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


doady wrote:
Btw, I am surprised multi-aspect ratio sensors are still not a standard feature of still-oriented cameras (e.g. LX100).


The EP-2 had this (from the manual):

"Changes the aspect ratio of images from 4:3 (standard) to [3:2], [16:9], or [6:6]. After changing the aspect ratio, use the arrow pad to specify the trimming position"

All that did was to discard the remainder of the image permanently. Useful only to those who used images straight from the camera.



Feb 09, 2024 at 06:28 AM
gmccroskery
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


olegkin wrote:
One would think it is a no brainer to make different frame ratios in cameras, and grey out a little bit edges outside of frame, but keep edges visible. 3/4, or 4/5, or 1/1 aspect ratio, and you can see what is walking in into frame on the edges. And then save those crops into raw files. Still, nobody does it, afaik.
Leica did something like this with Q series for a different reason, and look, it is everybody's favorite


Not sure I understand your post.

First, If you are using a format other than 4:3 to compose an image, why would you be concerned about who or what "is walking into the frame on the edges" that is not in the composition you want?

Second, the way my Olympus cameras work, if you select an aspect ratio other than full 4:3 and you are shooting RAW plus JPEG, the camera produces a JPEG with the desired crop and also a RAW file covering the entire sensor with crop marks overlaid -- so you can capture the edges of the frame cropped out in the JPEG.

Even with all this, I still don't understand the importance of being able to see what you are cropping out in the viewfinder, if that is not part of your intended composition.

Maybe you can clear up my confusion.





Feb 13, 2024 at 09:07 AM
chez
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


gmccroskery wrote:
Not sure I understand your post.

First, If you are using a format other than 4:3 to compose an image, why would you be concerned about who or what "is walking into the frame on the edges" that is not in the composition you want?

Second, the way my Olympus cameras work, if you select an aspect ratio other than full 4:3 and you are shooting RAW plus JPEG, the camera produces a JPEG with the desired crop and also a RAW file covering the entire sensor with crop marks overlaid -- so you can capture the edges of the frame
...Show more

For street shooting it is nice to be able to see what’s about to enter the frame so you are ready to capture the moment.



Feb 13, 2024 at 09:32 AM
olegkin
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


gmccroskery wrote:
Not sure I understand your post.

First, If you are using a format other than 4:3 to compose an image, why would you be concerned about who or what "is walking into the frame on the edges" that is not in the composition you want?

Second, the way my Olympus cameras work, if you select an aspect ratio other than full 4:3 and you are shooting RAW plus JPEG, the camera produces a JPEG with the desired crop and also a RAW file covering the entire sensor with crop marks overlaid -- so you can capture the edges of the frame
...Show more

Did you ever look through rangefinder (Leica) viewfinder? Or participated in a conversation of benefits of rangefinder cameras for photographing process?
Even if I don't use parts of the sensor, I still want to see what is going in there, for awareness/timing, and framing opportunities. I am aware cameras can produce jpeg images, never tried it myself for about 20 years.




Feb 13, 2024 at 10:27 AM
 


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wilt
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


The digital camera business is drying up to levels not seen since the 1990's!

    P&S cameras have died due to smartphone camera convenience
    dSLR sales are plummeting.
    Mirrorless sales are stuck in the 4 Million - 5 Million unit volume and never grew much more than the initial peak seen in 2012, even though both Nikon and Canon entered that market segment...little real growth, just cannibalizing each other!

It would be bad timing for the Olympus camera business under JIP leadership to throw lots of money into the camera market for a totally different product than its current business...way too much capitol to develop a body and line of lenses with the image circle that covers a larger (than its current 4/3 format) format size.




Feb 13, 2024 at 04:51 PM
olegkin
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


wilt wrote:
The digital camera business is drying up to levels not seen since the 1990's!

    P&S cameras have died due to smartphone camera convenience
    dSLR sales are plummeting.
    Mirrorless sales are stuck in the 4 Million - 5 Million unit volume and never grew much more than the initial peak seen in 2012, even though both Nikon and Canon entered that market segment...little real growth, just cannibalizing each other!

It would be bad timing for the Olympus camera business under JIP leadership to throw lots of money into the camera market for a totally different product than its current business...way too much
...Show more

And yet photographers are craving for a high quality as pocketable as possible cameras, see ricoh grX, fujifilm x100X, leica qX.
I, and my kids enjoyed a truly pocketable small film camera last year, when we came across it.



Feb 13, 2024 at 06:27 PM
chez
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?




olegkin wrote:
And yet photographers are craving for a high quality as pocketable as possible cameras, see ricoh grX, fujifilm x100X, leica qX.
I, and my kids enjoyed a truly pocketable small film camera last year, when we came across it.


How many units do you think they sell?



Feb 13, 2024 at 06:52 PM
olegkin
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


chez wrote:
How many units do you think they sell?


I have no idea. All of the above companies cannot make cameras fast enough, they have hard time keeping cameras in stock, for years now. And OM Systems (or Panasonic) has the best chance to make a truly pocketable camera here - a digital Olympus Muji.




Feb 14, 2024 at 10:21 AM
worker24x7
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


> As there are discussions about the viability of both m43 and OM System in the future,

wanted to add my 2c. I also wanted OM system to succeed.
I think the way forward is capitalizing on the strengths of the 4/3 sensor and the related ecosystem.
In my mind what keeps failing the system are:

1) the weight of the camera and weight+cost of the lenses

2) lack of ideation, creative thinking around the hardware options of the smaller sensor and lenses that would enable more personalizeable, less 'camera-gear-hanging-off-your-neck' kind of experience

3) lack of consistent and meaningful differentiation in terms of marketing (and pricing)

4) unsuccessful attempts to work non-camera centric manufacturing to integrate not just the sensor, but the whole 'camera-like' experience into other devices ubiquitous with the end end users.






Mar 10, 2024 at 12:20 PM
mawz
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


The issue is going to be pretty simple.

You can have what you want today. When I had my A7RIV, I pretty much left it in 4:3 crop mode. Pretty sure the R5 offers that as well, I don't know about the Nikons. You can also shoot & compose in 1:1 and on some systems 5:4.

These modes all display in the chosen format, and some even write the raws in the chosen format (some systems just embed a crop in the metadata, which is honoured by most RAW converters)

The big thing I'd like to see OMDS bring to the FF market is computational photography, not 4:3 aspect ratio. OM is so far ahead here that it's really the one item I miss when shooting with my current APS-C & FF gear. LiveND in particular, but the other computational aside from Multishot (which is just starting to become standard in FF kit) is simply missing. Panny offers some I think on the S5II, but not to the level an OM-1 does.



Mar 12, 2024 at 08:06 AM
Robin Smith
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


1) the weight of the camera and weight+cost of the lenses 2) lack of ideation, creative thinking around the hardware options of the smaller sensor and lenses that would enable more personalizeable, less 'camera-gear-hanging-off-your-neck' kind of experience 3) lack of consistent and meaningful differentiation in terms of marketing (and pricing) 4) unsuccessful attempts to work non-camera centric manufacturing to integrate not just the sensor, but the whole 'camera-like' experience into other devices ubiquitous with the end end users.

Apart from 1) I think we need a translation from the corporate jargon to know exactly what this all means for a photographer who actually takes photographs.



Mar 12, 2024 at 09:02 AM
jeffbuzz
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


worker24x7 wrote:
wanted to add my 2c. I also wanted OM system to succeed.
I think the way forward is capitalizing on the strengths of the 4/3 sensor and the related ecosystem.
In my mind what keeps failing the system are:

1) the weight of the camera and weight+cost of the lenses


Compared to what exactly? The OM 12-40mm is 1/2 the weight and 1/3 the price of a Sony 24-70mm.

worker24x7 wrote:
2) lack of ideation, creative thinking around the hardware options of the smaller sensor and lenses that would enable more personalizeable, less 'camera-gear-hanging-off-your-neck' kind of experience


What

worker24x7 wrote:
3) lack of consistent and meaningful differentiation in terms of marketing (and pricing)


OM / Olympus marketing has emphasized their size, weight and durability features for many years. Price was never stressed as a primary advantage over larger formats. But there always has been a price advantage between comparable cameras and lenses.

worker24x7 wrote:
4) unsuccessful attempts to work non-camera centric manufacturing to integrate not just the sensor, but the whole 'camera-like' experience into other devices ubiquitous with the end end users.


What does this mean?



Mar 12, 2024 at 10:50 AM
sjms
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Market opportunity for OM System? 4:3 ratio "full frame" camera?


not exactly a "general gear" subject is it now


Mar 13, 2024 at 02:02 PM
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