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The future of identifying birds thanks to AI

  
 
IndyFab
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI





Jan 18, 2024 at 08:22 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


Pretty soon, humans will forget how to retain this type of information. Soon, nobody will remember that we once did this, for ourselves.


Jan 18, 2024 at 08:30 AM
JustShootMe
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


IndyFab wrote:



Interesting but not for 5k, hopefully the tech will trickle down to less expensive options, or a smartphone with real telephoto optics is developed.



Jan 18, 2024 at 08:43 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


We'll see how many bird species actually survive the onslaught of mankind to see if this is going to be relevant tech

I suspect AI is going to ruin lots of things



Jan 18, 2024 at 10:11 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


jcolwell wrote:
Pretty soon, humans will forget how to retain this type of information. Soon, nobody will remember that we once did this, for ourselves.


I’m sympathetic to that point of view, but…

I had a similar discussion once with a colleague. He and I had been drivers since the era of paper maps. He pointed out that with vehicle navigation systems we no longer had to study a map, much less understand and remember the routes through places… and he felt that this was not a good thing.

Around that time I was making frequent drives to Southern California where a couple of our kids were going to college. I had gone there for years, and always followed the same two routes to the southern LA basin, picking one or the other based on radio traffic reports and my intended destination. I knew these routes really well, and no longer ever consulted a map.

But on a particular drive I took a newer car that had a navigation system. As we approached downtown LA on I5 the navigation system suggested getting off I5 and taking another route that I did not know existed. I balked for a moment and then thought, “what the heck, I’ll try it.” Eventually, after bypassing a blockage, it directed me back to I5. Hmm, that was interesting. I didn’t know about that route! Then a bit later it again took me off I5 and onto a westbound highway heading across to pick up the 405. I would never have thought of that, nor would I have learned about this part of the area.

If we are lucky, it might be somewhat like that with apps like this one. If I can quickly figure out what the heck the bird is, it is quite possible that I’ll retain that knowledge about this and many other birds that I might not have been able to identify before.

I recently used the “Merlin” app from Cornell to ID some birds, and I thought it was pretty darned useful!



Jan 18, 2024 at 10:25 AM
bs kite
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


Does anyone here know what a *Field Guide* is?


Jan 18, 2024 at 10:45 AM
armd
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


On occasion, I'll use e-bird to assist me in circumstances when I have difficulty identifying a species though learning and understanding the characteristics is more useful. Personally, I wouldn't want to dumb down and rely on an automated identification system. Likewise, when I drive I'll employ NAV in areas I am unfamiliar with, though much prefer to use my brain instead.


Jan 18, 2024 at 11:06 AM
JustShootMe
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


bs kite wrote:
Does anyone here know what a *Field Guide* is?


Field guides don’t cover all the birds that aren’t supposed to be in a certain area , which seams to be all the craze lately in my neck of the woods. Lots of birds who seldom make it inland, or this far north popping up in Texas lately.



Jan 18, 2024 at 11:06 AM
TomSchriefer
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


Yes, I'm quite familiar with field guides. They are available for a huge array of plants, critters, and even molds, mosses, and bacteria. They require input from the user, and the following of flowcharts to be of any use whatsoever. That is totally and completely at odds with the modern desire to have everything handed to you on a silver platter, right now. Unfortunately, modern technology is not nearly as refined as field guides, and may frequently be wrong.

My wife puts a lot of plants in our landscaping, and sticks the little plastic tags that come with them in the soil right near the plant. That way, WHEN we forget what it is, and/or how to care for it, we have a reference. Her sister, on the other hand, is all technology. She has a "flower ID" app on her phone. She demonstrated how very easy it is to use. Open app, point phone at flower, get answer. In our 20'x24' flower bed in front of the house, her app was wrong about 40% of the time. Yep, I agree, the garden center selling the flowers, and the growers who placed the tags, must have made some mistakes; lots of them. Her app can't possibly be wrong.




Jan 18, 2024 at 11:14 AM
lighthound
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


jcolwell wrote:
Pretty soon, humans will forget how to retain this type of information. Soon, nobody will remember that we once did this, for ourselves.


There is no "pretty soon" about it. It's already happening and has been for many years.

I can still remember our house phone (rotary) number from back in the 70's & 80'S as I was growing up. Matter of fact I can still remember a few of my friends phone numbers from back then also. And for some weird reason I can remember my LIC plate number from my first car.

Today... I couldn't tell you what my wife's cell phone number is or any other family members for that matter.
The only number I can remember in todays world is 911.

But in all fairness to myself. I am suffering from the advanced stages of "CRS" which is called "CRAFT".



Jan 18, 2024 at 11:34 AM
 


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nmerc_photos
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


I was just looking into this type of stuff recently, as I'm getting more into birding (as opposed to mammals) but haven't got a clue which birds I'm looking at. I just take pics and post them for others to identify.

We went on a trip to Hawaii in March 2023 and hired a bird guide to show us around the big island and he made us an ebird checklist with 51 new birds I had never seen prior to that trip - which I thought was pretty darn cool as I was putzing around with my R5 + RF 100-500.

I was looking at the Swarovski dG which I think came out in 2016 or 2018 for around $1700, but the reviews were pretty bad.

Digiscoping was also something that caught my attention, but often a 600mm - 2000mm lens on a FF camera yielded better results from what I could tell.

$4800 doesn't seem like a bad price if it works well. From personal experience, most of the birders I know are retirees with plenty of money to splurge. Many of the people I interact with in photography daily easily have $20K+ in hobby camera gear and spend another $20K+/yr on vacations to go looking for birds/mammals.

The only thing left to wonder is will the optical quality and image quality be good enough to justify the price..



Jan 18, 2024 at 12:02 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


If it weren't for Merlin and Google's image search, I wouldn't know what at least half the birds were that I take pictures of. Personally I love being able to identify it within seconds (even via their sound), learn about them, and learn how to identify them in the future. Merlin also has lots of helpful notes on how to differentiate between similar looking species, which I also appreciate as the electronic identification can't always be relied upon when differences are extremely subtle. Being electronic, they can also be constantly updated and pull from a wider database than what could reasonably fit in a book.

Fact of the matter is that computers are much better than humans at a lot of things, and I don't mind taking advantage of that to make my life easier, or to free up time to focus on other things



Jan 19, 2024 at 01:48 PM
chez
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


CanadaMark wrote:
If it weren't for Merlin and Google's image search, I wouldn't know what at least half the birds were that I take pictures of. Personally I love being able to identify it within seconds (even via their sound), learn about them, and learn how to identify them in the future. Merlin also has lots of helpful notes on how to differentiate between similar looking species, which I also appreciate as the electronic identification can't always be relied upon when differences are extremely subtle. Being electronic, they can also be constantly updated and pull from a wider database than what could
...Show more

Yep…nothing like flipping through the field guide pages looking for the specific bird as the bird flies away.



Jan 19, 2024 at 02:27 PM
mogul
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


gdanmitchell wrote:
I’m sympathetic to that point of view, but…

I had a similar discussion once with a colleague. He and I had been drivers since the era of paper maps. He pointed out that with vehicle navigation systems we no longer had to study a map, much less understand and remember the routes through places… and he felt that this was not a good thing.

Around that time I was making frequent drives to Southern California where a couple of our kids were going to college. I had gone there for years, and always followed the same two routes to the southern LA
...Show more

I remember being directed off of the freeway & going straight into a Race riot in LA. Sometimes the familiar route is the better route.



Jan 19, 2024 at 02:45 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


bs kite wrote:
Does anyone here know what a *Field Guide* is?


I have a shelf full of them, some of which I’ve owned for many decades. The illustrations are often quite useful, and they still make a useful adjunct to the apps.

---------------------------------------------

CanadaMark wrote:
If it weren't for Merlin and Google's image search, I wouldn't know what at least half the birds were that I take pictures of. Personally I love being able to identify it within seconds (even via their sound), learn about them, and learn how to identify them in the future. Merlin also has lots of helpful notes on how to differentiate between similar looking species, which I also appreciate as the electronic identification can't always be relied upon when differences are extremely subtle. Being electronic, they can also be constantly updated and pull from a wider database than what could
...Show more

I’m pretty much with you. When I’m in the field it is really simple to grab a picture or enter a description of a bird I don’t know into an app like Merlin. Note the “bird I don’t know” part. The alternatives would be to a) carry field guides and do the lookup process, b) use a photo late on to ID the bird that I had seen and photographed.

Using the app isn’t necessarily a way to avoid learning. It is actually a pretty useful way to learn how to identify birds and to learn the birds that you see.

---------------------------------------------

mogul wrote:
I remember being directed off of the freeway & going straight into a Race riot in LA. Sometimes the familiar route is the better route.


Indeed. Something quite similar happened to me years ago while using my (old) car’s navigation system to find my way through an area that was unfamiliar to me.

But that was using a pretty “dumb” navigation system that had no “awareness” of current conditions. Today all of the phonn navigation systems do track where problems are, and car systems do, too, at least if you pay the annual data fees. With them, you’d almost certainly be routed _around_ a problem like that.

I live about 50 miles from San Francisco, and I go up there a lot — sometimes at night or in poor weather or during rush hours. After decades of driving there I have absolutely no problem figuring out where I’m going or what routes are avaialable to me. However, I turn on the navigation system since it lets me know quickly when changing traffic conditions (like riots, accidents, flooding, congestion, events, and more) alter the drive times.

There’s no perfect system, whether it is my own knowledge or one of the apps. But they do get me there faster and smarter than just relying on my (extensive in this case) knowledge.

And… even as a (very) longtime Bay Area and California driver, by using the apps I have learned a number of useful routes that I would never have thought of. I learned a new and faster route into Death Valley that I never had thought of during my decades of going there. Last fall, for the heck of it, I let my navigation app lead me to Yosemite Valley, a place I have been going to for more than six decades. It started on one of my two normal routes and then out in the Central Valley it took me on some crazy backroads that I hardly ever have used and then a couple that were completely new to me. It turned out to be a fine route and perhaps at least 10 minutes faster than the routes I’ve always used.

In other words, I learned MORE about route finding in California by using the app.

I’m not going to write off the new stuff completely.




Jan 19, 2024 at 03:17 PM
Hairy Heron
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


bs kite wrote:
Does anyone here know what a *Field Guide* is?


Yes, and I also know what a slide rule is, 8mm film, a hard bound encyclopedia, dial-up modem, and lots of other functionally obsolete things of decades past. Seriously, if I need to ID a bird these days I use the Merlin Bird ID app. Lot's quicker and lighter than thumbing through a guide. I welcome the day when a camera can recognize a bird and embed it in the EXIF data. That will save me a lot of time not having to keyword my photos.



Jan 19, 2024 at 03:29 PM
elkhornsun
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


The Merlin song ID application has many problems with false positives and a supposed AI application is going to be even less effective. AI relies on a comprehensive image database and the bird ones usually lack juveniles or females or season variations for birds as with mating plumage for males.


Jan 19, 2024 at 05:13 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


Only a real life bird nerd tries to ID a bird BEFORE getting a photo of it. ID it at home!


Jan 19, 2024 at 05:16 PM
bs kite
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


RoamingScott wrote:
Only a real life bird nerd tries to ID a bird BEFORE getting a photo of it. ID it at home!


This is *exactly* what I have been doing for I guess a couple decades now. Been busy today and trying to also finish a new post on this... within the next

I do not use field guides in the field anymore.

Edited on Jan 19, 2024 at 05:42 PM · View previous versions



Jan 19, 2024 at 05:28 PM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · The future of identifying birds thanks to AI


bs kite wrote:
This is *exactly* what I have been doing for I guess a couple decades now. Been busy today and trying to also finish a new post on this... within the next

I do not use field guides in the field anymore. I fact, I do use field guides all in the field


I have a 1986, 9th edition, Reader's Digest's North American Wildlife next to my desk where it will stay until I die or it falls apart. It has only let me down once, and that's because Caracara had not yet migrated into the US from Mexico on a permanent basis 40 years ago



Jan 19, 2024 at 05:38 PM
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