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Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"

  
 
1bwana1
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p.19 #1 · p.19 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Jeff Kott wrote:
I've never had a Leica digital camera. Do people agree with his statements preferring Leica color to Sony color? Wouldn't that be converter dependent with raw files?


The leica camera, lenses, and profiles produce a very attractive color. I love the colors I get out of Lightroom and my M system.


I prefer them to what I get out of my Sony system and the LightRoom default profiles. They are better with the Sony camera specific profiles. They are best for me with my custom profiles.

That is an advantage to shooting RAW.

Edited on Apr 01, 2024 at 08:45 PM · View previous versions



Apr 01, 2024 at 08:24 PM
jhapeman
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p.19 #2 · p.19 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


1bwana1 wrote:
The leica calera, lenses, and profiles produce a very attractive color. I love the colors I get out of Lightroom and my M system.

I prefer them to what I get out of my Sony system and the LightRoom default profiles. They are better with the Sony camera specific profiles. They are best for me with my custom profiles.

That is an advantage to shooting RAW.


That's been the case since the M9, but keep in mind that Leica has basically built its DNG files around working well with Lightroom--so much so that in the early days they gave away a copy with every digital M. That the Sony, Canon or Nikon raw files don't work as well with the Adobe defaults is no knock on those cameras, but rather a choice made by those manufacturers to have their own specific profiles they feel best represent what their cameras are capable of.



Apr 01, 2024 at 08:44 PM
gunmetal
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p.19 #3 · p.19 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Jeff Kott wrote:
I've never had a Leica digital camera. Do people agree with his statements preferring Leica color to Sony color? Wouldn't that be converter dependent with raw files?


It has to do with both the converter and the color science of Leica. I've never understood the whole "Fuji colors are better than Sony colors which are better than Nikon colors, etc" when one is shooting in RAW. If you're shooting RAW you're going to be editing it anyway. JPEG is a different story. Although the Youtube channel Andrewgoodcamera did a pretty cool color science shootout a while back. Really interesting.



Apr 01, 2024 at 10:05 PM
philip_pj
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p.19 #4 · p.19 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


There is a whole lot to colour, it would require another forum dedicated to it to arrive at any solid conclusions other than general observations, shaped by each person's experiences and conditions. Much of opinion can be understood by the kinds of images each person takes, subject matter especially.




Apr 02, 2024 at 12:31 AM
araudan
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p.19 #5 · p.19 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I'm noticing the silver version is on order/back order at various Canadian retailers over the past couple or weeks. It also happened briefly at B&H within the past 2 weeks. Even the silver CII is listed on back order at one or two retailers. I wonder if Sony underestimated the demand for it over the all black version. If so, could we see other full frame models introduced in silver in the future?


Apr 02, 2024 at 02:27 PM
foto16
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p.19 #6 · p.19 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Jeff Kott wrote:
I've never had a Leica digital camera. Do people agree with his statements preferring Leica color to Sony color? Wouldn't that be converter dependent with raw files?


Isn't that entirely subjective? In today's world photographic output, Leica's share is negligible. If Leica color is objectively superior to the main brands, doesn't that mean the majority of the working photographers are using inferior tools to produce inferior output? That's highly implausible.



Apr 02, 2024 at 03:04 PM
 


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GMPhotography
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p.19 #7 · p.19 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Two things I did order a A7CR but Leica color has way more to do with there glass than there sensor output. Glass is Schott glass and they do use amazing coatings. But at least in the past sensors did not compete well with Sony. I was a Leica Ambassador years ago . There glass is the key to Leica but today the raw converters are so much better so IMHO color is more about user abilities


Apr 02, 2024 at 03:42 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.19 #8 · p.19 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


GMPhotography wrote:
.... but Leica color has way more to do with there glass than there sensor output.


Guy, I think you would find the video posted by Phillip 4 posts above to be interesting as it seems to directly contradict what you are saying. In the video he compares the image from a Leica M 10 to a Sony using the exact same lens.




Apr 02, 2024 at 04:00 PM
GMPhotography
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p.19 #9 · p.19 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I should have said Leica in the past I got as far as a M9 so things may have changed sensor wise. My bad

Jeff Kott wrote:
Guy, I think you would find the video posted by Phillip 4 posts above to be interesting as it seems to directly contradict what you are saying. In the video he compares the image from a Leica M 10 to a Sony using the exact same lens.





Apr 02, 2024 at 04:22 PM
GMPhotography
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p.19 #10 · p.19 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I would check who has more DR. Why I think the Sony is flatter is because it has more DR. But that needs to be checked. Iíd like to test this myself but really donít have much interest. Iím not going back to Leica.


Apr 02, 2024 at 04:33 PM
philip_pj
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p.19 #11 · p.19 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Many things are not amenable to empirical measurement, but the market decides and places a premium on the best. Many of the most experienced and astute of photographers prefer Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander images because they see their greater life, well-controlled saturation, microcontrast, greater aesthetic appeal. And the lenses are made to last a lifetime.

There is always a gulf between the 'good enough' world of commercial work and the best in the business - clients don't know any better. It's also one reason why so many pros use these high end brands for their own work. This is all common knowledge, and it is how small, low volume producers stay in business and indeed, often thrive.

Not that Leica colour is uncontroversially regarded as the best. Zeiss optics (and their Japanese manufacturer Cosina) tend to do better on Sony's colour systems. CZ had a decades long association with them after all. And many lens ranges, of course, are made just for the Sony systems. For many uses, their colour performance on Sony would be regarded as superior to that of Leica lenses on Sony.

It's a many decades long debate, Zeiss colour vs Leica colour. ;-) I much prefer Zeiss and find Leica colour too gaudy and lacking tonal nuance. Zeiss compability with Sony is the reason I chose Sony camera systems.



Apr 02, 2024 at 04:45 PM
Matt Kerby
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p.19 #12 · p.19 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I think putting the Cron on the Sony body might degrade the image because it wasn't made for the Sony sensor. If you compared the 50 cron on the m11 and the 50/1.4GM on the a7rV then you might see more similar details in the shots?
But I'm no engineer so, that's just my thoughts while I watched that video.
I shoot my 35 FLE with my a7cR and love it. Not sure it's the colors that I like about it, more of a look it gives.



Apr 02, 2024 at 04:46 PM
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