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Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"

  
 
1bwana1
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p.19 #1 · p.19 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Jeff Kott wrote:
I've never had a Leica digital camera. Do people agree with his statements preferring Leica color to Sony color? Wouldn't that be converter dependent with raw files?


The leica camera, lenses, and profiles produce a very attractive color. I love the colors I get out of Lightroom and my M system.


I prefer them to what I get out of my Sony system and the LightRoom default profiles. They are better with the Sony camera specific profiles. They are best for me with my custom profiles.

That is an advantage to shooting RAW.

Edited on Apr 01, 2024 at 08:45 PM · View previous versions



Apr 01, 2024 at 08:24 PM
jhapeman
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p.19 #2 · p.19 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


1bwana1 wrote:
The leica calera, lenses, and profiles produce a very attractive color. I love the colors I get out of Lightroom and my M system.

I prefer them to what I get out of my Sony system and the LightRoom default profiles. They are better with the Sony camera specific profiles. They are best for me with my custom profiles.

That is an advantage to shooting RAW.


That's been the case since the M9, but keep in mind that Leica has basically built its DNG files around working well with Lightroom--so much so that in the early days they gave away a copy with every digital M. That the Sony, Canon or Nikon raw files don't work as well with the Adobe defaults is no knock on those cameras, but rather a choice made by those manufacturers to have their own specific profiles they feel best represent what their cameras are capable of.



Apr 01, 2024 at 08:44 PM
gunmetal
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p.19 #3 · p.19 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Jeff Kott wrote:
I've never had a Leica digital camera. Do people agree with his statements preferring Leica color to Sony color? Wouldn't that be converter dependent with raw files?


It has to do with both the converter and the color science of Leica. I've never understood the whole "Fuji colors are better than Sony colors which are better than Nikon colors, etc" when one is shooting in RAW. If you're shooting RAW you're going to be editing it anyway. JPEG is a different story. Although the Youtube channel Andrewgoodcamera did a pretty cool color science shootout a while back. Really interesting.



Apr 01, 2024 at 10:05 PM
philip_pj
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p.19 #4 · p.19 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


There is a whole lot to colour, it would require another forum dedicated to it to arrive at any solid conclusions other than general observations, shaped by each person's experiences and conditions. Much of opinion can be understood by the kinds of images each person takes, subject matter especially.




Apr 02, 2024 at 12:31 AM
araudan
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p.19 #5 · p.19 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I'm noticing the silver version is on order/back order at various Canadian retailers over the past couple or weeks. It also happened briefly at B&H within the past 2 weeks. Even the silver CII is listed on back order at one or two retailers. I wonder if Sony underestimated the demand for it over the all black version. If so, could we see other full frame models introduced in silver in the future?


Apr 02, 2024 at 02:27 PM
foto16
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p.19 #6 · p.19 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Jeff Kott wrote:
I've never had a Leica digital camera. Do people agree with his statements preferring Leica color to Sony color? Wouldn't that be converter dependent with raw files?


Isn't that entirely subjective? In today's world photographic output, Leica's share is negligible. If Leica color is objectively superior to the main brands, doesn't that mean the majority of the working photographers are using inferior tools to produce inferior output? That's highly implausible.



Apr 02, 2024 at 03:04 PM
GMPhotography
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p.19 #7 · p.19 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Two things I did order a A7CR but Leica color has way more to do with there glass than there sensor output. Glass is Schott glass and they do use amazing coatings. But at least in the past sensors did not compete well with Sony. I was a Leica Ambassador years ago . There glass is the key to Leica but today the raw converters are so much better so IMHO color is more about user abilities


Apr 02, 2024 at 03:42 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.19 #8 · p.19 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


GMPhotography wrote:
.... but Leica color has way more to do with there glass than there sensor output.


Guy, I think you would find the video posted by Phillip 4 posts above to be interesting as it seems to directly contradict what you are saying. In the video he compares the image from a Leica M 10 to a Sony using the exact same lens.




Apr 02, 2024 at 04:00 PM
GMPhotography
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p.19 #9 · p.19 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I should have said Leica in the past I got as far as a M9 so things may have changed sensor wise. My bad

Jeff Kott wrote:
Guy, I think you would find the video posted by Phillip 4 posts above to be interesting as it seems to directly contradict what you are saying. In the video he compares the image from a Leica M 10 to a Sony using the exact same lens.





Apr 02, 2024 at 04:22 PM
GMPhotography
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p.19 #10 · p.19 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I would check who has more DR. Why I think the Sony is flatter is because it has more DR. But that needs to be checked. Iíd like to test this myself but really donít have much interest. Iím not going back to Leica.


Apr 02, 2024 at 04:33 PM
 


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philip_pj
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p.19 #11 · p.19 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Many things are not amenable to empirical measurement, but the market decides and places a premium on the best. Many of the most experienced and astute of photographers prefer Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander images because they see their greater life, well-controlled saturation, microcontrast, greater aesthetic appeal. And the lenses are made to last a lifetime.

There is always a gulf between the 'good enough' world of commercial work and the best in the business - clients don't know any better. It's also one reason why so many pros use these high end brands for their own work. This is all common knowledge, and it is how small, low volume producers stay in business and indeed, often thrive.

Not that Leica colour is uncontroversially regarded as the best. Zeiss optics (and their Japanese manufacturer Cosina) tend to do better on Sony's colour systems. CZ had a decades long association with them after all. And many lens ranges, of course, are made just for the Sony systems. For many uses, their colour performance on Sony would be regarded as superior to that of Leica lenses on Sony.

It's a many decades long debate, Zeiss colour vs Leica colour. ;-) I much prefer Zeiss and find Leica colour too gaudy and lacking tonal nuance. Zeiss compability with Sony is the reason I chose Sony camera systems.



Apr 02, 2024 at 04:45 PM
Matt Kerby
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p.19 #12 · p.19 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I think putting the Cron on the Sony body might degrade the image because it wasn't made for the Sony sensor. If you compared the 50 cron on the m11 and the 50/1.4GM on the a7rV then you might see more similar details in the shots?
But I'm no engineer so, that's just my thoughts while I watched that video.
I shoot my 35 FLE with my a7cR and love it. Not sure it's the colors that I like about it, more of a look it gives.



Apr 02, 2024 at 04:46 PM
Knut.
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p.19 #13 · p.19 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


philip_pj wrote:
RX1-wise, there were excellent reasons many of us wanted a companion camera (say the 'RX2') with a 75m or 85mm on board. One kilogram with two cameras, no dust, leaf shutter quiet, tiny, super results, take anywhere, shoot anywhere. The ship sailed away, however, another opportunity lost. No one mainstream made anything like it.


Well, you get it from Ricoh, two cameras 2(3) focal lengths:

- 21/28mm first camera (+/- wide angle adapter)
- 40mm second camera



Apr 26, 2024 at 04:43 PM
Tarekith
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p.19 #14 · p.19 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


It was a strange journey for my to get to my current camera, the A7CR. First camera was the A7C, always wanted to get into photography but never wanted to carry a big body. When that camera came out, I jumped in the deep end at last

However, within about 18 months I was really missing having an extra dial and button since I'm in manual mode 90% of the time. And I thought I would like a bigger grip too.

Ended up selling the A7C and getting an A7IV, which solved the above issues as well as let me experiment with bigger lenses. The 20-70 became my go to, though the 40G, 28-200, and Sigma 100-400 rotated in pretty often. And no doubt about it, the build quality and feel of the A7IV is a lot nicer than the C series too (IMVHO). Oh yeah, the camera strap attachments donít flop around on the IV like the A7C, I liked that more than I thought I would. (happily the CR is the same on this front)

However, over time I definitely noticed myself not wanting to take the camera with me as much as I should, just because it was a bit more of a process to bring the bigger camera gear. And the larger grip on the A7IV was starting to feel TOO big for me (I hand hold for hours, so my hand was cramping once in awhile), which I didn't expect.

So I was really interested in the A7CII when it was announced, for awhile I've been wanting to downsize a bit and spend more time with smaller primes. But.... I kept thinking maybe the CR would be the better choice. Where as the CII felt a little more like a boring cross grade from the A7IV just for the sake of size, the CR would be a clear upgrade.

Eventually I made up my mind to get the CR and I couldn't be happier. Definitely easier to just grab and go, the 40G has been living on it most of the time. I did get another 28-60 as well for biking and hiking, along with the 24G and Sigma 90mm. I can fit the camera and three lenses easily in my PD 3L sling, which has been my go to for a long time.

I hesitated buying so long worrying if the increased resolution on the CR was worth it, and boy was it ever! I'm honestly more impressed by the increase than I thought I would be. I've always been one to crop a lot, and it's pretty freaking impressive how far in I can crop now and retain a lot of detail. This along with the better IBIS have been a big help for me in getting the shots I want, can't remember the last time I used a tripod.

Thought I would miss the joystick from the A7IV on the CR, and I did but not for the reason I thought. I never realized how often I would press the joystick to recenter the focus area to get ready for the next shot (I do walkabout B&W nature photography mainly). Eventually I realized I could map C2 to Set Focus, so double tapping C2 would recenter the focus area. Nice. Though I will say that it drives me nuts how often the A7CR tells me that the center button is "Set Focus Point On/Off". No way to disable that message that pops up every time you go from finder to evf or the camera thinks you are, so annoying.

The display and EVF are fine on the A7CR, I use both about 50/50 for framing and never have any issues. I definitely notice the decreased resolution from the A7IV, but it's never gotten in my way either. I definitely prefer the EVF off to the side and smaller compared the IV though, just feels more natural to me given that's what I learned on. I was constantly snagging the rubber surround on the IVís EVF on my pants while walking around. The display on the CR is noticeably more responsive than either the IV or the OG A7C as well. Start up time is faster on the CR over the C too, which is nice.

All in all it's a pretty damn powerful camera in a size that just feels better in my hand and I know I'll bring with me more places. I don't regret going with the A7IV for awhile, I learned a lot with that camera and it was nice to learn one of the bigger bodies since that's what all the high end Sony cameras use. But I'm glad they make all that power (and more) in a more compact size for people like me too

Anyway, just my thoughts on the A7CR and why I chose it.

Edited on Apr 27, 2024 at 09:24 AM · View previous versions



Apr 26, 2024 at 05:53 PM
philip_pj
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p.19 #15 · p.19 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


It's a good outcome that you enjoy your new camera. But putting the EVF elephant in another room, several other downsides are worth noting for readers considering one:

'..A7CR stick(s) to a single SD UHS II card slot. Anyone hoping for a better/faster storage option on the A7CR will be disappointed.'

'It's a shame Sony didnít splash a bit more cash on the displays. A somewhat disappointing 2.36m dot OLED EVF and a 3-inch vari-angle touchscreen with 1.037 million dots. The EVF and rear screen specifications are adequate but no more. Thatís particularly disappointing in the Sony A7CR, which is an expensive camera.' ($800 more).

'This is where the higher resolution of the Sony A7CR really holds it back. To put it simply, the sensor captures too much data for full-width video capture using Ďoversamplingí, which is generally accepted as the best way to capture high-quality video.'

'if you are going to use G Master lenses to make the most of the A7CRís sensor, you might find its small body and modest grip size work against it.'

'The Sony A7CR..houses Sonyís highest resolution sensor in the companyís smallest and perhaps least Ďprofessionalí body. It easily beats the A7C II for resolution, but not for anything else. In fact, itís definitely more limited as a video camera.'

'..itís harder to make a case for the A7CR, where the better-handling Sony A7R V might surely be a more logical choice, or even the older (and cheaper) A7R IV.'

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/buying-guides/sony-a7c-ii-vs-a7cr

The review does not mention the body's two steps backwards for manual focus lens users. It would have been a better fit for the large number of small/light MF lenses, but for Sony's EVF backsliding.

So it seems to be suffering from Tesla Syndrome: an apparently promising but narrow focus product with lots of power, but how are you going to use it? These are unbalanced pretenders in a ever more pragmatic world. At least the a7CR is not core to Sony's business model.



Apr 26, 2024 at 07:25 PM
chiron
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p.19 #16 · p.19 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


philip_pj wrote:
It's a good outcome that you enjoy your new camera. But putting the EVF elephant in another room, several other downsides are worth noting for readers considering one:

'..A7CR stick(s) to a single SD UHS II card slot. Anyone hoping for a better/faster storage option on the A7CR will be disappointed.'

'It's a shame Sony didnít splash a bit more cash on the displays. A somewhat disappointing 2.36m dot OLED EVF and a 3-inch vari-angle touchscreen with 1.037 million dots. The EVF and rear screen specifications are adequate but no more. Thatís particularly disappointing in the Sony A7CR, which is an expensive
...Show more

Those all strike me as very minor nit-picks with the author forcing himself to find something to criticize. Offering criticisms always makes a reviewer (or a poster) sound smart.

I had both the A7CII and the A7CR at the same time, and I have chosen to keep the A7CR. They are both excellent cameras. The only real advantage of the A7CII for a stills photographer is more AF points and slightly larger pixels; the A7CR has excellent AF coverage but also gives you double the resolution, which is a large advantage for a stills shooter. For video the A7CII is a better choice, which is how Sony markets them. The A7CR gives you 95% of what the A7VR offers in a much smaller and lighter body. It sells less than the A7CII because it is significantly more expensive and not everyone appreciates the extra resolution enough to pay for it.

One is spoiled for choice in Sony cameras these days, and one should surely match their camera body to their uses and preferences. It is not hard to do that given the range of choices.



Apr 26, 2024 at 09:42 PM
araudan
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p.19 #17 · p.19 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I just got the a7CR myself this week. I don't find any of the issues listed by digitalcameraworld.com apply to me. I think that is the crux of this camera. It's not for everyone but those that like it seem to like it a lot. Plus it's a whole lot cheaper than the a7RV where I am. Also, I've held the a7RV and it felt like the Sony A-mount a77II I had. I often left that camera at home because of the bulk and weight. I appreciate the size reduction on the C bodies. I don't intend to go larger than my a7RIII.


Apr 26, 2024 at 09:47 PM
DES-1
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p.19 #18 · p.19 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


philip_pj wrote:
The review does not mention the body's two steps backwards for manual focus lens users. It would have been a better fit for the large number of small/light MF lenses, but for Sony's EVF backsliding.


What are these two steps backwards? Is the EVF really that bad? Have you experienced these deficiencies ?




Apr 26, 2024 at 10:17 PM
GMPhotography
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p.19 #19 · p.19 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


The EVF is okay but I bet most use the LCD. I shoot manual focus a lot. First I buy Sony glass for the AF/MF switch on lens and I changed the focus hold on lens to focus magnifier so going manual focus is 2 control buttons and Iím set. For me itís not the biggest deal. But the EVF is the bigger downfall . But so are other models with this limited EVF.




Apr 26, 2024 at 10:30 PM
chiron
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p.19 #20 · p.19 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


GMPhotography wrote:
The EVF is okay but I bet most use the LCD. I shoot manual focus a lot. First I buy Sony glass for the AF/MF switch on lens and I changed the focus hold on lens to focus magnifier so going manual focus is 2 control buttons and Iím set. For me itís not the biggest deal. But the EVF is the bigger downfall . But so are other models with this limited EVF.



If I am recalling correctly, the magnification of the A7Cxx cameras' EVFs is about the same as the Leica M10-R.



Apr 27, 2024 at 06:54 AM
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