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Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"

  
 
adcimagery
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p.18 #1 · p.18 #1 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Iím assuming heís referring to how the higher resolution lets you adjust perspective after the shot (eg Lightroomís Transform) and still have enough resolution for a usable shot.

lattesweden wrote:
I don't understand this line, care to explain?




Mar 11, 2024 at 07:11 AM
freaklikeme
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p.18 #2 · p.18 #2 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


macadphotos wrote:
Even if you only need ~26mp, the A7CR lets you
1) Crop a FF image extensively (See below for associated benefits)
2) Use APS-C lenses for more overall weight savings
3) Add an electronic shift function (like a tilt-shift lens) when used with an ultra-wide-angle lens.
4) Get sharper and less noisy photos by binning/downsampling either in post or in-camera (e.g. m-raws), assuming a good algorithm is used.
5) Shoot multiple equivalent focal lengths with a single prime lens while enjoying the f1.4 goodness (in terms of light-gathering capabilities)
6) Get 1.5x more reach when shooting wildlife and sports
7) Access to 61mp when you
...Show more

It's very cool, but it's nothing you can't also do with an rIV or V (or the Leica SL3). From that perspective, it really is how much you love/need that size and design and the compromises you're willing to make over carrying the bigger cameras that matters.



Mar 11, 2024 at 04:47 PM
chez
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p.18 #3 · p.18 #3 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


freaklikeme wrote:
It's very cool, but it's nothing you can't also do with an rIV or V (or the Leica SL3). From that perspective, it really is how much you love/need that size and design and the compromises you're willing to make over carrying the bigger cameras that matters.


Size is its biggest selling point. The ability to add such advanced AF into such a tiny package is what makes the A7cr so remarkable. Add the great sensor and itís a winner.



Mar 11, 2024 at 04:53 PM
foto16
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p.18 #4 · p.18 #4 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


macadphotos wrote:
Even if you only need ~26mp, the A7CR lets you
1) Crop a FF image extensively (See below for associated benefits)
2) Use APS-C lenses for more overall weight savings
3) Add an electronic shift function (like a tilt-shift lens) when used with an ultra-wide-angle lens.
4) Get sharper and less noisy photos by binning/downsampling either in post or in-camera (e.g. m-raws), assuming a good algorithm is used.
5) Shoot multiple equivalent focal lengths with a single prime lens while enjoying the f1.4 goodness (in terms of light-gathering capabilities)
6) Get 1.5x more reach when shooting wildlife and sports
7) Access to 61mp when you
...Show more

To put things into perspective, if you replace 26MP in the above list with 15MP, everything applies to the A7CII too. And if you think 15MP is not enough to print really large, we have different eyesight/standard (recall that 16MP was the standard at some point, like on the flagship Nikon D4). Especially given today's AI Megapixels apps, printing large is a non issue.

Obviously, if the A7CR and A&CII are of the same price, almost everyone will pick the A7CR, but they are not, and that's why the A7C II is more popular in sales. The advantage of 61MP may be mainly psychological--if you have bought the A7C II you will always wonder what if I have bought the A7CR, but if you have bought the the A7CR you will forget about the A7C II, and if you often crop more than 1.5-2x.







Edited on Mar 11, 2024 at 05:27 PM · View previous versions



Mar 11, 2024 at 05:11 PM
Maximilian
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p.18 #5 · p.18 #5 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"?

Main reason in Europe: 3700 Euro (= 4046 US$) body only.





Mar 11, 2024 at 05:21 PM
sselhtrim
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p.18 #6 · p.18 #6 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


A small body also needs small lens to have a small package.

I had the sigma 24mm f3.5 but the voigtlander 21mm 1.4 is now going to stay on the body despite its size because the image quality is that much better and more pleasing.



Mar 11, 2024 at 10:15 PM
AGeoJO
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p.18 #7 · p.18 #7 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Maximilian wrote:
Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"?

Main reason in Europe: 3700 Euro (= 4046 US$) body only.



Ouch, that's a lot money for that camera 😩. But that's the official price and I am sure, like here in the US, there are sources, from where you can buy that body for less, right?



Mar 11, 2024 at 10:23 PM
tuomkok
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p.18 #8 · p.18 #8 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


A7cr is 3700e almost everywhere in Europe - except where it is 3799 That is hugely high price compared to A7c II being around 2200-2400e. 1.6-1.7x times more!


AGeoJO wrote:
Ouch, that's a lot money for that camera 😩. But that's the official price and I am sure, like here in the US, there are sources, from where you can buy that body for less, right?





Mar 12, 2024 at 01:36 AM
catacore
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p.18 #9 · p.18 #9 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Unless one wants to try the grey market (e-infin, panamoz), where it is priced around 2500 EUR.


Mar 12, 2024 at 03:22 AM
Maximilian
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p.18 #10 · p.18 #10 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


AGeoJO wrote:
Ouch, that's a lot money for that camera 😩. But that's the official price and I am sure, like here in the US, there are sources, from where you can buy that body for less, right?


that's correct: grey market (import from Hong Kong etc.)



Mar 12, 2024 at 07:17 AM
 


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lattesweden
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p.18 #11 · p.18 #11 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


adcimagery wrote:
Iím assuming heís referring to how the higher resolution lets you adjust perspective after the shot (eg Lightroomís Transform) and still have enough resolution for a usable shot.



Aha, yes that one can do with any camera with enough resolution and lens sharpness, but we still lack the Keystoning preview function in the EVF/LCD that Olympus and Leica cameras have to aid with the framing for just these kind of "in post shifted" shots.

Video here: https://youtu.be/JDl3uOjhH60



Mar 12, 2024 at 07:30 AM
Matt Kerby
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p.18 #12 · p.18 #12 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Maximilian wrote:
Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"?
Main reason in Europe: 3700 Euro (= 4046 US$) body only.




This makes the most sense, I wouldn't drop 4K on the a7cR, I paid $2700 and almost waited for a used one.



Mar 12, 2024 at 10:16 AM
macadphotos
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p.18 #13 · p.18 #13 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


adcimagery wrote:
I don't understand this line, care to explain?


I'm glad you asked.

A shift lens works by first projecting an image circle much larger than the sensor onto the sensor plane. The point of having a larger image circle is to capture more of the scene in your photo, similar to using a wide angle lens. You'll then shift the sensor along the plane to capture different parts of the image circle. Now imagine shooting a building straight on instead of tilting the camera up so that the walls are parallel. You can then shift the sensor to capture the portion of the image circle containing the building. That's essentially how a shift-lens works to correct the perspective somewhat. I apologise for the lack of illustrations but a picture will probably describe all that I've mentioned far more effectively.

Instead of buying a huge lens to generate a really large and wide image circle, you can apply the same principles by first using an ultra-wide-angle lens, and cropping different parts of the image instead (therefore simulating the sensor shift).

It is not the same as keystoning, where you are essentially stretching and twisting an image in post, which can lead to a slight deterioration in image quality.



Mar 12, 2024 at 11:29 AM
swldstn
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p.18 #14 · p.18 #14 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


Well when it comes to the A7CR vs A7CII I admit I bought both! When traveling having both in a small sling, each with its own lens, is great. Iím always nervous about only bringing one body and their small size now allows be to pack both. Sure at the destination I may only take one out and about but the backup is not far behind. At home when I go out with my A1 or A7RV one of the compact C bodies is my backup and the second body in my bag. I bought the 7C2 as an open box to get a better price. I like that it and the CR are almost identical with only small differences.


Mar 12, 2024 at 09:20 PM
adcimagery
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p.18 #15 · p.18 #15 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


macadphotos wrote:
I'm glad you asked.

A shift... quality.


Heads up - that wasn't me asking, so the original person asking might not be tagged in this response.



Mar 13, 2024 at 01:48 AM
walknorth
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p.18 #16 · p.18 #16 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


macadphotos wrote:
I'm glad you asked.

A shift lens works by first projecting an image circle much larger than the sensor onto the sensor plane. The point of having a larger image circle is to capture more of the scene in your photo, similar to using a wide angle lens. You'll then shift the sensor along the plane to capture different parts of the image circle. Now imagine shooting a building straight on instead of tilting the camera up so that the walls are parallel. You can then shift the sensor to capture the portion of the image circle containing the building. That's
...Show more

Yes. Those of us old enough to have used view cameras understand this. There are two basic relationships.

The relationship of the film plane to the subject plane control perspective. You can use movements to keep the the film plane and the subject plane parallel.

The relationship of the film plane to the subject plane controls the the plane of focus. Imagine the film plane and the subject extending outwards. This film plane and subject plane will cross. The plane of focus will meet at this point. This is the Scheimphlug effect. It's late and I'm tired, please don't make me check spelling.

So, in our impoverished digital world, tilt lenses can change the plane of focus. Shift lenses can maintain "correct" perspective. Very limited because of the limited image circle of available lenses and lack of interest.

Beyond my lifespan, sensors may be large and inexpensive. Or small and high resolution. Perhaps photographers will again want to design images controlling the plane of focus and perspective to create evocative images. Perhaps we'll verbalize to our AI friend what we want. Rules of reality won't matter.

Yes, arguments about bokeh will seem even sillier. How you chose the plane of focus and control of perspective designing your images might be discussed. Well, maybe I'm too optimistic.

don




Mar 13, 2024 at 04:05 AM
fotografur
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p.18 #17 · p.18 #17 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"





Apr 01, 2024 at 06:53 PM
swldstn
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p.18 #18 · p.18 #18 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I enjoyed this presentation.


Apr 01, 2024 at 07:47 PM
gocolts
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p.18 #19 · p.18 #19 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


^^Agree with the review. With small lenses from Sony of 24,35,40 & 50mm, as well as the 28-60, you got options for the form factor depending on your FL need. Not to mention compact zooms that still provide a small versatile package. The fact that you don't sacrifice IQ or AF abilities is icing on the cake.


Apr 01, 2024 at 07:58 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.18 #20 · p.18 #20 · Why are people not buying Sony's Swiss Army knife "A7cr"


I've never had a Leica digital camera. Do people agree with his statements preferring Leica color to Sony color? Wouldn't that be converter dependent with raw files?


Apr 01, 2024 at 08:06 PM
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