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Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?

  
 
gear-nut
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


The other thing to keep in mind is working room. When you have unlimited room to position models relative to you, the differences become mostly background size, shapes and colors. However, from a static shooting position with moving models, all of a sudden focal is critical ó and why the 70-200/2.8ís are so popular for that work. I donít do the latter kind of work, but do do the former on occasion.

So the videos are a good reminder to me that for me, the real differences between these focals is mostly how the background will render. In this, my 105 macro at 2.8 is subtly busier than my 105/1.4 at 1.4 or 2, but if Iím honest, the background is usually far enough away itís not a critical difference and the bit of added DoF is as often a bonus ó plus non-photographer eyes lock on the subject and donít really notice how the subtleties in background difference may slightly enhance or detract.

Which brings me full circle. In my case the slower lenses being lighter are usually in my bag anyway, and the fast heavy ones sit in the cabinet until I have a need for them. (Not the 58, itís small enough itís in the bag too.) So I am going to sell the 105/1.4 and get another 85/1.8. Which leaves the concept of the Plena still open in my mind ó would I use it enough to justify it, even for my own pleasure? I honestly donít think so knowing my aversion to heavy primes. But maybe.



Dec 12, 2023 at 10:58 AM
JadedWriter
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


There's also the matter of how things get cropped after the fact. A lot of times for headshot work I'm just at 85 because I have 0 idea about how my images get cropped so I try to just be at 85 to give leeway. I can make 105 and 135 work, but at the same time it turns into working distance and I might have to be too far away to get enough shoulder room. 105 in the studio works pretty well, which is what I use the 105MC for mostly.
gear-nut wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind is working room. When you have unlimited room to position models relative to you, the differences become mostly background size, shapes and colors. However, from a static shooting position with moving models, all of a sudden focal is critical ó and why the 70-200/2.8ís are so popular for that work. I donít do the latter kind of work, but do do the former on occasion.

So the videos are a good reminder to me that for me, the real differences between these focals is mostly how the background will render. In this, my
...Show more




Dec 12, 2023 at 11:10 AM
aerospace99
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?




Ai_Print wrote:
I think the 105mm 1.4E is about one of the best lenses I have used in my entire career, a perfect blend of speed and reach that makes it a go to for a lot of jobs like portraits and super low light journalistic images.

But I think saying people are buying new lenses like the 85 1.2 and 135 1.8 to impress is a tad ridiculous, especially since one could say the same thing about the 105/1.4 when it was first announced. Personally I don't get into the minutia of bokeh, the term did not even exist a couple
...Show more
Fair points . I hope.the 135 woks for you. I have given up trying to qualify a 135 because of the extra fl. If I need extra speed I would still consider tha Sigma lens even with a adapter.



Dec 12, 2023 at 11:26 AM
gear-nut
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


JadedWriter wrote:
There's also the matter of how things get cropped after the fact. A lot of times for headshot work I'm just at 85 because I have 0 idea about how my images get cropped so I try to just be at 85 to give leeway. I can make 105 and 135 work, but at the same time it turns into working distance and I might have to be too far away to get enough shoulder room. 105 in the studio works pretty well, which is what I use the 105MC for mostly.


100% makes sense -- once digital got to over 24MP, I started shooting looser for that very reason. And you raise another highly relevant point we haven't really addressed in this thread, and that's "crop-ability" of especially 45MP images -- a Dx crop is still a healthy size image to work on...



Dec 12, 2023 at 12:05 PM
JadedWriter
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


I will occasionally shoot the 85 1.2 in DX mode...even accidentally and it turns out fine. Plena might actually be a game changer for that since it's like almost a 200, but with more light gathering.
gear-nut wrote:
100% makes sense -- once digital got to over 24MP, I started shooting looser for that very reason. And you raise another highly relevant point we haven't really addressed in this thread, and that's "crop-ability" of especially 45MP images -- a Dx crop is still a healthy size image to work on...





Dec 12, 2023 at 12:14 PM
gear-nut
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


@JadedWriter Good point on the Plena -- seems silly to buy it with the plan of shooting it Dx, but it would serve my gap exceptionally well there, and eliminate my thoughts of re-buying the 70-200 just for a 200/2.8 and all for the same basic money. Hmmmm...


Dec 12, 2023 at 12:25 PM
JadedWriter
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


There's nothing dumb about it. I've shoot the 85 and the 105 1.4 in DX to cover a gap as well. If it works it works.
gear-nut wrote:
@JadedWriter@ Good point on the Plena -- seems silly to buy it with the plan of shooting it Dx, but it would serve my gap exceptionally well there, and eliminate my thoughts of re-buying the 70-200 just for a 200/2.8 and all for the same basic money. Hmmmm...





Dec 12, 2023 at 01:07 PM
gear-nut
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


JadedWriter wrote:
There's nothing dumb about it. I've shoot the 85 and the 105 1.4 in DX to cover a gap as well. If it works it works.


I hear you -- I've on occasion cropped the 105 and probably to almost Dx, just never considered shooting with it in Dx mode.



Dec 12, 2023 at 01:12 PM
BSPhotog
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


gear-nut wrote:
I hear you -- I've on occasion cropped the 105 and probably to almost Dx, just never considered shooting with it in Dx mode.



When I owned the Sigma 135mm f/1.8 Art, it was as a long prime for weddings and events. At the time, I was primarily shooting with D500s. I think the math worked out to a 202.5mm and DoF equiv of around f/2.7.



Dec 12, 2023 at 06:08 PM
aerospace99
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


My own experience with the 135's (not Plena) is that like 70-200's, the bulk factor causes me to leave them behind. I have made peace with my 105 as a carry lens because its rendering flips my switch so to speak. The utility of a 135 is there but practically its not a lens that I had to have. Too many times I forced the shot because I was crowded. The new Tamron 35-150 takes up the gap quite nicely for me.
As to the 85 1.8, I have wrestled with this against the 105 and decided there was a place for both. But I sold off the 105 once before and regretted that special shot was no longer there. I have to have a tinge of character in my shots. The 85 is great but does lack a bit of that look. The bokeh is a little more fuzzy. If I can only have one, it will be the 105. It is a signature lens in the Nikon portfolio in my book. But the newer lenses are clearly a little more optically correct but for human subjects I am not convinced they are better. Just my take.

The comment by another poster in that the 135 in DX mode is a great substitute for a 200 F2 makes sense. I loved the 50 1.8s in DX mode. The lens has to be really good to make that work and the Plena is clearly up to the task. It is definitely a shelf lens though.



Dec 15, 2023 at 03:31 AM
 


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Aurora_lights
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


Since i got the 105 1.4G i took most of my portraits with it.

The 85 1.2S didn't impress me because i feel it lacks a bit of emotional rendering that the 105 does.

It's too sharp, the bokeh to clean and technical. I also didn't like the 50 1.2S over the 58 1.4G for that reason. For my portraits i prefer the most magical rendition. So far the 1.2S lenses look too clinical and sterile to me. The 58 creates a wonderful 3D feeling and an amazing background. With the 50 1.2 the bokeh balls are so technical and way harsher.



Dec 16, 2023 at 05:17 PM
gear-nut
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


I understand a look being too clinical, but thatís what we get as optical perfection increases. I see it as an opportunity to increase our skills to take advantage of those new (?) traits. Several of the images in the Plena thread show just that; the monk and mother and child being two recent that I think represent this concept exceptionally well.

Size and weight remain significant decision factors for me; I sold my 105/1.4 for that reason ó and admittedly to make room for something new. I have the 85/1.8 as a lighter option, I have the 105 macro that can be pressed to normal DoF portrait use, and I've kept the 58/1.4 for its legacy rendering, but now considering moving it along too for more native Z mount glass. This thread and the Plena thread have caused the Plena to grow on me, and thus Iíve decided to explore it ó I think the only way I will know for sure if itís for me is to date one for a bit; buy it and try it, then either keep it or sell it. So thatís my plan for now, stay tuned, maybe Iíll have an image or two thatís worthwhile to share

Edited on Dec 17, 2023 at 01:31 PM · View previous versions



Dec 17, 2023 at 10:54 AM
dalegaspi
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


Aurora_lights wrote:
Since i got the 105 1.4G i took most of my portraits with it.

The 85 1.2S didn't impress me because i feel it lacks a bit of emotional rendering that the 105 does.

It's too sharp, the bokeh to clean and technical. I also didn't like the 50 1.2S over the 58 1.4G for that reason. For my portraits i prefer the most magical rendition. So far the 1.2S lenses look too clinical and sterile to me. The 58 creates a wonderful 3D feeling and an amazing background. With the 50 1.2 the bokeh balls are so technical and way harsher.


i understand the sentiment about the 85/1.2S vs 105/1.4E. In a previous page I have a comparison between the two and i think for most use cases, the two lenses are very close in performance and more-or-less interchangeable. in other words, for practical purposes you only need one of them.

now, i also understand the sentiment about the 58/1.4G vs 50/1.2S, but conclusion from 85/1.2S vs 105/1.4E cannot be applied here. IMO the 58G and 50S are very different lenses and one does not replace the other for most use cases, even if you disregard the difference in focal length. Consider the comparison below with the 58/1.4G and 50/1.2 wide open...the shot with the 50/1.2 is adjusted so that magnification is close enough and both WB are set manually to be the same. As you can see, even in small size, they are very different; the 58/1.4G is warmer, and clearly there is more CA...not necessarily bad, but IMO they are not interchangeable.





On a side note, in the above photo the 50/1.2S has a better bokeh IMO because of less onion ring effect and less bokeh fringing.




Dec 17, 2023 at 11:33 AM
gear-nut
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


@dalegaspi great comparison, thank you! This definitely underscores the 50/1.2<>58/1.4 difference. Would be really interesting to see the same image from the 50/1.8 wide open too.


Dec 17, 2023 at 11:37 AM
m.sommers00
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


BSPhotog wrote:
Someone needs to be a buzzkill and put the 85mm f/1.8S in the mix, so we can really see where the extra thousands of dollars gets us.


IME, all of Nikon's 1.8 lenses whether F or Z mount have been technically great lenses in terms of distortion, CA and sharpness.

But they're all a bit boring and a bit flat in their rendering. Of course this can be 'fixed' in post but once you have it SOOC, it's hard to go back. The 1.2 offerings are really impressive, but I'm also a Zeiss nut job so there's that.

Looking at the 50/1.2 and 58/1.4, they each have their own character. And for the cost you can get a used 58 for now, that's pretty cool.



Dec 17, 2023 at 12:03 PM
gear-nut
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


The 58 is indeed a sweet lens. But as time goes by, I am grabbing it less and the 50/1.8 more -- mainly due to size and added size with the FTZ. But it remains a glorious lens with legacy rendering. I am finally considering selling it to help fund more Z mount glass...


Dec 17, 2023 at 01:30 PM
urbanwild
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


gear-nut wrote:
The 58 is indeed a sweet lens. But as time goes by, I am grabbing it less and the 50/1.8 more -- mainly due to size and added size with the FTZ. But it remains a glorious lens with legacy rendering. I am finally considering selling it to help fund more Z mount glass...


Don't sell the 58mm! It has to be one of the more common examples for this thread:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1837083?b=2




Dec 17, 2023 at 06:41 PM
gear-nut
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


urbanwild wrote:
Don't sell the 58mm! It has to be one of the more common examples for this thread:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1837083?b=2



I know, I know. And mine is a really great copy. But...



Dec 17, 2023 at 06:46 PM
Buckeye2604
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?




Aurora_lights wrote:
Since i got the 105 1.4G i took most of my portraits with it.

The 85 1.2S didn't impress me because i feel it lacks a bit of emotional rendering that the 105 does.

It's too sharp, the bokeh to clean and technical. I also didn't like the 50 1.2S over the 58 1.4G for that reason. For my portraits i prefer the most magical rendition. So far the 1.2S lenses look too clinical and sterile to me. The 58 creates a wonderful 3D feeling and an amazing background. With the 50 1.2 the bokeh balls are so technical and way harsher.

Have you tested out the 85 1.2? I donít find it to be clinical at all. I also have the 105E. Both are magical lenses.



Dec 18, 2023 at 12:39 AM
Aurora_lights
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Plena vs 105/1.4 vs Z85/1.2S anybody?


Buckeye2604 wrote:
Have you tested out the 85 1.2? I donít find it to be clinical at all. I also have the 105E. Both are magical lenses.


I haven't but i will keep looking at examples of good portraits here.
But it would have to be very convincing to get me to pay that premium over the 105 1.4G.
In the end i want a magical rendering and not extra skin pores i have to retouch.
I might be wrong though about the 85 1.2

I feel more like upgrading to a possible Z6 iii from my Z6 than changing the 105 to the 85 1.2.
AF is what leaves me hanging more often during my shoots. And possible other updates the Z6iii might bring.
If i have cash in the future i might get an 85 1.2S eventually.


Edit: checked out the 85 1.2S and 105 1.4G image threads here and i still vastly prefer the 105.
The 85 background and spatial rendering doesn't do it for me. I find the bokeh to harsh and edgy. There's not one photo there which makes me feel like i want that over the 105. While the 105 thread is full of images i love.
Like film lenses i want character. Just my taste ofc.



Dec 18, 2023 at 12:30 PM
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