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Gateway into Leica, need some help

  
 
JackRyanD
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


sskennel wrote:
There are a couple for sale on eBay at the moment. A bit above your budget, though, and you’ll still need a lens.


Yeah I think a M-P 240 + at least one lens is the best value for the current budget. I think then in six months to a year I can look at an m10 for an upgrade if I feel I need it.



Dec 07, 2023 at 04:16 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


There is currently a Leica M240 available on the buy and sell board.


Dec 07, 2023 at 04:28 PM
JackRyanD
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


Fred Miranda wrote:
There is currently a Leica M240 available on the buy and sell board.


Yup I am gonna list my Z6 + a lens today and keep my Canon. Then ill probably post a WTB or if that one is still available, grab it next week. On a side note would you start out with the Voigtlander 28mm f/2.0 Ultron or the Leica 50 1.4? Both images look great from what I see.



Dec 07, 2023 at 04:43 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
Yup I am gonna list my Z6 + a lens today and keep my Canon. Then ill probably post a WTB or if that one is still available, grab it next week. On a side note would you start out with the Voigtlander 28mm f/2.0 Ultron or the Leica 50 1.4? Both images look great from what I see.


I would go with the lens that has the closest FL to how I see images. The Voigtlander is optically nice but the ergonomics are not as good as the leica. I am tempted to recommend going with a Leica lens to get the whole Leica experience and look. To me this did make a difference. I have now structured my core kit to be all Leica lenses. I save my other brand lenses as used for special reasons.



Dec 07, 2023 at 04:48 PM
AndereObjektiv
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
...Sure I could go with a Fuji and that might be more economically wise but after using the Q I think I would probably be disappointed in the results (plus I love the way Leica digitals render colors when browsing flickr groups).


I wholly agree with your reasoning and methodology. Flickr is an amazing resource, and inspirational as well. One can sort by camera and/or lens, and see the results in a broad collection. If one notices differences with sensors and lenses, it can help to pare down choices. Not everyone notices or cares, but if sensor and lens colors and performance are important, as they really are to me, then nothing really beats hands on testing, and before that lots of browsing flickr images to sort possibilities and combinations. Sometimes I arrive at tough places, such as; the only 61mp bsi cmos sensor I like is the one in the M11. I wanted to like the fp L, α7CR and α7RV, but I just can't.

Good luck with your search. Let me put in a vote for the Voigtländer lenses too, and don't limit yourself to just m mount glass either, a Leica rangefinder that can take the EVF for liveview can adapt a lot of excellent slr and mf glass as well.




Dec 07, 2023 at 05:17 PM
retrofocus
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


sskennel wrote:
This is a lovely image, but I clearly see cyan shift. Compare the color of the pavement at bottom center with the pavement color in the lower left corner.


This is from the scenery itself. I took this photo on a tripod to compare the exact same spot taken between the CV 28/2.0 vers. I and the Leica 28/2.8 Elmarit-M lens at f/8.0 (the photo with the Elmarit is below). The difference is only in a tiny bit wider image with the Elmarit lens.




Dec 07, 2023 at 05:31 PM
retrofocus
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


rscheffler wrote:
At the risk of derailing this thread further, below are examples SOOC - M240 and VM28/2 v2.

I do think my copy is suboptimal because it exhibits field curvature that others imply should not be present. But these were all shot at f/8 where it shouldn't be relevant. Please note left and right edge green/cyan shift. In-camera 28 Cron lens profile was assigned to these. IIRC, I briefly tried other profiles without much difference.

https://i.postimg.cc/NF5tYYz6/20230521-0379.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/WpHj8FdX/20230521-0479.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/5yTV2GhZ/20230521-0573.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/rFRTPVWc/20230521-0674.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/L8dSdcBP/20230521-0752.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/2S4DC02K/20230521-0768.jpg



Yes, can clearly see a greenish band on the right side of the frame in all photos. It is more visible there than on the left side. Pretty sure there is something wrong with your lens copy. IMO likely some sort of decentering the way it looks.



Dec 07, 2023 at 05:36 PM
sskennel
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


retrofocus wrote:
This is from the scenery itself. I took this photo on a tripod to compare the exact same spot taken between the CV 28/2.0 vers. I and the Leica 28/2.8 Elmarit-M lens at f/8.0 (the photo with the Elmarit is below). The difference is only in a tiny bit wider image with the Elmarit lens.


Interesting experiment! Looking at these images sequentially it's easy to see that there's a difference in color on the pavement in the lower left corner, and the Photoshop eyedropper confirms this.



Dec 07, 2023 at 06:03 PM
RexGig0
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
On a side note would you start out with the Voigtlander 28mm f/2.0 Ultron or the Leica 50 1.4? Both images look great from what I see.


Distance/scale focusing is best done with a lens of a focal length of 28mm or wider. This is also known as “zone focusing.” Obviously, a 28mm or wider lens can be rangefinder focused, too. In order to quickly point-and-shoot, pre-selecting the distance means that there is no time consumed by the act of focusing.

A 50mm lens has a comparatively much-shallower depth of field, which makes judging distance, and then setting the correct distance on the lens, much more challenging. So, if shooting with a 50mm lens, it would normally be better to focus using the rangefinder. Your earlier emphasis on “point-and-shoot” might indicate that 50mm would not be a best choice, BUT, on the other hand, you may enjoy the challenge of learning rangefinder focusing, and 50mm is the ideal focal length for that.

The Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH is THE lens that lured me to sample the Leica M system, then buy into it, five years ago. I already knew how to distance/scale focus, with Nikon manual-focus lenses, to use a Nikon SLR/DSLR as a “point-and-shoot” camera. I practiced rangefinder focusing, with a pre-owned Summilux lens, using pre-owned and demonstrator M9 and M Type 240 cameras, at Houston Camera Exchange, in Texas, an authorized Leica dealer. My goal was to have the best lens, for images of people, with the most pleasantly blurred backgrounds. Adding an M-mount 28mm lens, for chasing my active young grandsons, shooting “from the hip,” at their level, using distance/scale focusing, was not a consideration until later.

Neither lens is a bad choice, but they are two tools, for two different tasks.









Dec 07, 2023 at 06:31 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
On a side note would you start out with the Voigtlander 28mm f/2.0 Ultron or the Leica 50 1.4? Both images look great from what I see.


Depends on your preferred focal length. Both are good options. 28 would be easier to focus. 50 @ f/1.4 involves a number of variables to consistently nail focus such as calibration of the camera's rangefinder, calibration of the lens to the Leica rangefinder standard, how clearly you can see the rangefinder patch, whether you focus and recompose (most rangefinder lenses don't have flat planes of focus and many are quite wavy, plus focus and recompose tilts the plane of focus the more you turn away from the subject, etc.)

As an intro, it might be easier to start with a medium speed 35mm, like a 35/2 or 35/2.5. With 35 you're not dealing with 28mm frame lines all the way to the edge of the viewfinder window (that some find difficult to see) but it's still easier to consistently focus with the rangefinder than 50mm and longer. If you opt for 50mm, consider a 50/2, though there are not as many options as there are around f/1.4 and faster. In any case, you could still get an f/1.4 lens and just work with it at f/2-2.8 if you find wide open focus is a bit tricky at first. Beware of lenses with focus shift, which will generally be non-aspherical and based on older designs, such as the Voigtlander 35/1.4, Zeiss 50/1.5.

JackRyanD wrote:
As an aside would the 50 Summarit 1.5 be a good lens to pair with a voigtlander 28mm f2 ultron ii? I've been seeing a lot of great shots with it.


50/1.5 Summarit from the 1950s? It's a 'character lens' quite low in contrast, very glowy wide open. For starting off I'd instead suggest the current version Voigtlander 50/1.5.

If you meant the recent Summarit 50/2.5, then yes, that would be a good one to start with. It should be reasonably priced (for Leica) and will give you a taste of Leica lens ergonomics compared to Voigtlander.

retrofocus wrote:
Yes, can clearly see a greenish band on the right side of the frame in all photos. It is more visible there than on the left side. Pretty sure there is something wrong with your lens copy. IMO likely some sort of decentering the way it looks.


Could be. Its wide open performance is not up to what I expected based on Fred's review and those of others. Would have to try another copy but that's currently a pretty low priority. I've pretty much written it off for now and just fall back to the 28 Lux instead.



Dec 07, 2023 at 08:36 PM
 


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JackRyanD
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


1bwana1 wrote:
Since you live close you are welcome to come down and shoot for an afternoon to try out one of my Leica setups to see whether you like it. I have an M10-P and any number of FL lenses including the Voigtlander 28 Ultron II.


I am in DC for school till December 18th unfortunately, but I am going to go to the leica store here and try the M10/M11 and see if I enjoy it. If so ill get an M240 here on the Buy Sell Board. Thanks for the offer however



Dec 08, 2023 at 02:40 PM
JackRyanD
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


Walked into the Leica store today in DC, tried an M body (I think an M11 or M10, not sure), and immediately went onto buy a brand new Voigtlander 27mm f2 Ultron II for 550 shipped from a reputable seller on ebay– I loved the rangefinder-style almost and am confident the M series is for me now. However when it comes to a body I hesitated in buying: is there a justifiable difference between the M240 and the MP240 that would necessitate a ~600-700 dollar difference or is that money better spent on maybe a Zeiss 50mm lens to pair with a starting kit? I really just plan on holding this body for a year or more and eventually upgrading to an M10.


Dec 08, 2023 at 06:16 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


This will be an entry body into the M system so in the long term it won't matter that much which one you buy first. History shows that the lenses may last your lifetime. It is important with the range finder to learn which FL and Apertures best match your style of shooting.


Dec 08, 2023 at 06:36 PM
retrofocus
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
Walked into the Leica store today in DC, tried an M body (I think an M11 or M10, not sure), and immediately went onto buy a brand new Voigtlander 27mm f2 Ultron II for 550 shipped from a reputable seller on ebay– I loved the rangefinder-style almost and am confident the M series is for me now. However when it comes to a body I hesitated in buying: is there a justifiable difference between the M240 and the MP240 that would necessitate a ~600-700 dollar difference or is that money better spent on maybe a Zeiss 50mm lens to pair
...Show more

The difference between a used standard M 240 and M10 is about $1500, between M-P 240 and M10 about $800 and closer to the range you mentioned. 28 and 50 mm are a good combination on rangefinder cameras. But reading your plan only to buy the M-P 240 temporarily and jump in a short time to a M10 is a bit short-sighted IMO. For the difference of $600-800 I would directly jump into a M10 camera first and just get used to your camera with one lens - e.g. the 28/2.0 you mentioned. Easier in a year from now to get any kind of 50 mm lens depending on need and price range.



Dec 08, 2023 at 06:38 PM
ottokbre
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


The Leica M type 240 has a cool tone screen that got switched out for a much warmer toned one in the M-P 240. Operationally the big diff is the larger buffer and the return of the preview lever but there isnt much in it otherwise. Both are pretty darn heavy. The M went on a diet with the type 262 by going aluminum top plate and dropping live view. Al of these camera have the forever battery life.

I've never shot an M10 so I cant comment on it.



Dec 08, 2023 at 07:03 PM
JackRyanD
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


retrofocus wrote:
The difference between a used standard M 240 and M10 is about $1500, between M-P 240 and M10 about $800 and closer to the range you mentioned. 28 and 50 mm are a good combination on rangefinder cameras. But reading your plan only to buy the M-P 240 temporarily and jump in a short time to a M10 is a bit short-sighted IMO. For the difference of $600-800 I would directly jump into a M10 camera first and just get used to your camera with one lens - e.g. the 28/2.0 you mentioned. Easier in a year from now to
...Show more

Not a bad idea, what exactly does the M10 benefit from over the 240's?



Dec 08, 2023 at 07:08 PM
ottokbre
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
These are both quite helpful Ill look out for an M262 but I am afraid they would be quite challenging to find.


I have seen two on LA Craigslist this year. So they are out there. I got quite lucky with mine. It had been bought by someone used but CLA'd from Leica LA and then just sat on it for a year before selling to me.

I will keep an eye out for you.




Dec 08, 2023 at 07:12 PM
ottokbre
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
Walked into the Leica store today in DC


Not sure who helped you there but some of those guys at the DC store are really great. I bought my Billingham M bag there.

There is a store in Foggy Bottom that is small but nice and last time I was in there (a long while back) they actually had a used type 262 for sale.



Dec 08, 2023 at 07:16 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


JackRyanD wrote:
Not a bad idea, what exactly does the M10 benefit from over the 240's?


The M10 is still a very much modern and relevant M body today, and provides a very good shooting experience. If there is a way you can swing it financially I strongly recommend going that way.



Dec 08, 2023 at 07:41 PM
ocean2059
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Gateway into Leica, need some help


ottokbre wrote:
Not sure who helped you there but some of those guys at the DC store are really great. I bought my Billingham M bag there.

There is a store in Foggy Bottom that is small but nice and last time I was in there (a long while back) they actually had a used type 262 for sale.


That's District Camera and Imaging at 1225 I St NW #110, Washington, DC 20005. They always have pretty good selections of used Leica M bodies and Leica/Zeiss M lenses. But I have not been there recently. Leica DC store also has good selections from time to time.



Dec 08, 2023 at 07:46 PM
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