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Gateway into Leica, need some help

JackRyanD
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

Hello all,

I was recommended this forum by a friend and love reading it so far. I am in the market for a Leica point and shoot style camera. I do street photography, travel photography, portraiture, and family photos. This would just be a for fun camera, and I was looking at the Q. Would that be a good pickup? What's the difference between the Q and Q2 besides the sensor change? Should I be considering a Typ 240? Someone mentioned that on r/leica as well for a beginner Leica. My budget is 3000 give or take right now. Thanks in advance.

Dec 06, 2023 at 12:01 AM

sskennel
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

You can think of the Qs as a series of very fancy point and shoots, and a gateway drug into the Leica ecosystem. This article describes the differences between the Q and Q2. Used Q2s in good condition go for around $3,500 right now. If that’s too much of a stretch for your budget, you might start with the original Q and see if you like it.

An M240 isn't a point and shoot, it’s a manual focus rangefinder camera. A significant investment of time is needed to learn use it properly. Many, many of us have found that investment worthwhile, but you need to know what you’re getting yourself into. If you buy a used M240 for around $2,200 you’re also going to need one or more lenses. You could buy a used Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 35mm f/2 ASPH VM for around $600, for example, which is a very nice lens, or a tiny Voigtländer Color-Skopar 28mm f/2.8 Aspherical for around $400.

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:35 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

Roger (sskennel) above summed it up nicely. Q comes with fixed lens and is EVF-based, Leica M has exchangeable lens mount with optical viewfinder/rangefinder. The M 240 series has currently the best price/quality ratio for a used M camera. I am using both - the M-E 240 and the MM 246 - and I have no reason to upgrade soon to a newer model. You can use M-mount and older LTM (L39) screw-mount lenses with adapter on Leica M cameras.

Subjective preference, but main reason for me not to consider a Leica Q camera is the limitation with a fixed lens. This can have pros and cons depending on preference and photo style. There is also a Leica Q monochrome version if interested.

Dec 06, 2023 at 07:30 AM

RexGig0
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

Some thoughts:

Any camera can be a “point-and-shoot camera,” depending upon how one defines that term. An M-series Leica camera is my favored reasonably-compact camera for a see-point-shoot-fast scenario, when I am using distance/scale* focusing.

I started with an M10, but, an M Type 240 can still do the job.

I have nothing against Q-series cameras. I simply have not been able to justify adding a Q camera, because a specific 50mm lens was my major motivation to add Leica, and I was (and am) also interested in 75mm to 90mm M-mount lenses.

Notably, a Q is lighter in weight than an M body with an attached lens, but the Q’s permanently-attached lens results in an overall three-dimensional size that is larger than an M-series body with a truly compact lens affixed.

I am not any kind of expert.

*This is manually-focusing at a pre-set distance.

Dec 06, 2023 at 09:37 AM

johnvanr
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

The Lux series are the point-and-shoot Leicas. The Q and M are not.

Dec 06, 2023 at 01:34 PM

bluehawaii
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

I like the Q a lot. Both models listed are pretty good. The only worry I have with the OG typ 116 is Leica stopping service support, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if it was in very good condition.

I also like the M-E and M-P 240 (no live view on the M-E). It may have to be with a 3rd party lens if staying within budget, but that gives versatility of swapping lenses which the Q can't. However Peter Karbe does specifically recommend occasionally cropping in with the Q2 to shoot with tighter angles of view. There isn't an M lens that renders like the Q.

All cleverly segmented, so you eventually end up wanting them all.

Dec 06, 2023 at 02:47 PM

JackRyanD
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

sskennel wrote:
You can think of the Qs as a series of very fancy point and shoots, and a gateway drug into the Leica ecosystem. This article describes the differences between the Q and Q2. Used Q2s in good condition go for around $3,500 right now. If that’s too much of a stretch for your budget, you might start with the original Q and see if you like it.

An M240 isn't a point and shoot, it’s a manual focus rangefinder camera. A significant investment of time is needed to learn use it properly. Many, many of us have found that investment worthwhile,...Show more →

If you were just starting out and using this for travel and friends picking between maybe a MP240 or M240 or a Q2 which which do you think would serve me best? I haven't ever used a digital rangefinder camera but I think it would be a fun experience, however the Q2 IQ blows me away. Does the M240 have a similar color science and IQ paired with good glass?

Dec 06, 2023 at 03:31 PM

RustyRus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

Go Buy a used Q2 off the buy sell board for 3500-4K-

It’s perfect for what you want-

If you really want to go all in, grab an M10 with a Voigtlander 35 1.4 and try your hand with the Rangefinder- It’s a game changer for street IMO. So much fun to use

Dec 06, 2023 at 03:32 PM

airfrogusmc
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

RustyRus wrote:
If you really want to go all in, grab an M10 with a Voigtlander 35 1.4 and try your hand with the Rangefinder- It’s a game changer for street IMO. So much fun to use

Agree 100%

Dec 06, 2023 at 03:36 PM

ocean2059
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

Dec 06, 2023 at 04:14 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

JackRyanD wrote:
If you were just starting out and using this for travel and friends picking between maybe a MP240 or M240 or a Q2 which which do you think would serve me best? I haven't ever used a digital rangefinder camera but I think it would be a fun experience, however the Q2 IQ blows me away. Does the M240 have a similar color science and IQ paired with good glass?

The Q will be closer in experience to your current mirrorless equipment, just with a fixed lens.

The M is a mostly manual/mechanical experience that requires some learning, but also isn't that difficult to use. You just have to accept that composition through the optical viewfinder window will never be as precise as an EVF and that focus might not always be dead on at wider apertures due to user error. With the M, more of the 'process' of making the image is on the photographer due to the necessity to control more of the parameters than a more automated camera like the Q.

If you just want to turn it on and let the camera do most of the work (focus, exposure), then the Q would be better. If you're looking for something different from your mirrorless system that forces you to think about what you're doing up to the point of exposure, then go for the M. If you're really curious about Leica, the M is the essence of Leica, so might as well dive in and explore. IMO the Q is a peripheral product that is less differentiated from any other mirrorless type system (other than being fixed lens).

Dec 06, 2023 at 04:55 PM

JackRyanD
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

I think the Q seems to be a better entry for me, one final question sorry: Are there any major differences between Q/QP/Q2 that justify buying one or the other?

Dec 06, 2023 at 05:31 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

I might catch some flak for writing this, but I recommend considering the M240 or the more pricey M10 as your initial Leica choice. The Q series is similar to other EVF cameras but with way better build and aesthetics. With the rangefinder, you get to experience shooting with manual lenses, capturing the true essence of Leica in my opinion. That's how I started and I don't regret a bit.

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:02 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

I'm w Fred and the rest who say the M series is Leica. It is the true essence - no-one else makes anything like it.
It's why you shoot Leica IMO.
The Q series are super cameras, it's just to me they are like the SL series - another EVF camera option. A fantastic option, but you are not going to get that Leica vibe.

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:07 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

One thing is for sure...once you have the camera, you'll need a lens for it.

I recommend sticking to third-party lenses, like Voigtlander or Zeiss, initially. This way, you can gauge your liking for the system before investing in one or two Leica lenses for your preferred FLs. I think all this is within your budget.

The Voigtlander 28/2 Ultron, 35/1.4 Nokton, or 50/2 APO-Lanthar lenses are all within reach, especially used.

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:14 PM

JackRyanD
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

Whats the average price for a used M10 on the market right now? I cant seem to find any under 4.7-5k which would probably push me out of it budget-wise including a lens. My max really is to be in under 4 including a lens to start so it seems M240 might be my only option at first.

On another note do you find it hard to capture moving subjects manually focusing? Even just people walking in the street? How does one learn to capture that?

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:24 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

JackRyanD wrote:
Whats the average price for a used M10 on the market right now? I cant seem to find any under 4.7-5k which would probably push me out of it budget-wise including a lens. My max really is to be in under 4 including a lens to start so it seems M240 might be my only option at first.

On another note do you find it hard to capture moving subjects manually focusing? Even just people walking in the street? How does one learn to capture that?

Here on the B&S board, I've noticed Leica M10 bodies selling for around 4k in mint condition. The M240 is significantly cheaper, hovering around 2-2.5k.

It's safe to buy either of these cameras in terms of resale value, though. The prices haven't fluctuated much in the past four years!

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:31 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

JackRyanD wrote..

On another note do you find it hard to capture moving subjects manually focusing? Even just people walking in the street? How does one learn to capture that?

Zone focus is the way! And with that you never have to worry that an AF sensor picked the wrong thing to focus on. As well as zero focus lag.

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:35 PM

JackRyanD
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

Would a M-P 240 and Voigtlander 28/2 Ultron be a good combo to start then? I think you all convinced me to give the rangefinder style cameras a try and if I enjoy them move into a M10 one day.

Dec 06, 2023 at 06:58 PM

ottokbre
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Gateway into Leica, need some help

I've gone in and out with mirrorless. But I wanted manual lenses, and a compact full frame. So I dabbled with an M8 and then an M240.

In the past month I have seen a few M10s go for $3,800. Once for 3600 with some use but def not ugly.

When it came time to to go back to digital M I went with the M262 and am really loving it.

Dec 06, 2023 at 09:10 PM

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