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Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

chiron
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

https://petapixel.com/2023/11/30/leica-watch-zm-1-gold-limited-edition-brings-luxury-to-your-wrist/

Just teasing you red dot guys--it's too good to resist--don't get upset --

If Sony had a status watch, what would it be like?

Nov 30, 2023 at 04:42 PM

foto16
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

If this doesn't confirm it, nothing does. I'm waiting for the Monolux!

There is a comparison of a7CR and the Leica Q3 on YouTube yesterday. The 300-dollar Viltrox 28mm 1.8 beat the Summilux in sharpness at all apertures.

https://youtu.be/X65XPOb-XPA?si=xBaH7S1NFsqX5MJ2

Nov 30, 2023 at 04:52 PM

1bwana1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

chiron wrote:
https://petapixel.com/2023/11/30/leica-watch-zm-1-gold-limited-edition-brings-luxury-to-your-wrist/

Just teasing you red dot guys--it's too good to resist--don't get upset --

If Sony had a status watch, what would it be like?

If Sony had a watch it would be much like a a Seiko. Lots of digital tech inside instead of precision machining analog movement. But like a Sony camera it would outperform everything mechanical by a good margin.

Edited on Dec 02, 2023 at 10:12 AM · View previous versions

Nov 30, 2023 at 06:41 PM

1bwana1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

chiron wrote:
https://petapixel.com/2023/11/30/leica-watch-zm-1-gold-limited-edition-brings-luxury-to-your-wrist/

Just teasing you red dot guys--it's too good to resist--don't get upset --

If Sony had a status watch, what would it be like?

Well there is a lot of fashion in the Leica M Camera line as well. Leica often charges huge premiums for its special addition cameras and lenses, which in the end are just different colors and finishes from the standard versions. The interesting thing is that these in the end have the lowest cost of ownership. Most appreciate so buyers make a profit on these items.

Edited on Nov 30, 2023 at 07:32 PM · View previous versions

Nov 30, 2023 at 06:44 PM

chiron
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

Nov 30, 2023 at 06:57 PM

liggy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

lol... I do love watches. Zero chance I'd buy one of these unless it was a freebie with the next generation Q Reporter.

A red dot still doesn't make for haute horologie.
Pretty bland finishing on the movement for a $28K timepiece.

Sony watch? Hmmmm... that brings to mind one of my favorite timepiece/power stories.

Sony chairman was being interviewed by a magazine. The interviewer notices that Morita-san is not wearing a watch. His reply was something to the effect of "I'm the Chairman of Sony - I don't need to wear a watch"

Badass.

Edited on Nov 30, 2023 at 07:49 PM · View previous versions

Nov 30, 2023 at 07:01 PM

gocolts
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

I had been flirting with the idea of picking up a Q2 Reporter for travel...but the price still bothered me as well as being stuck with 28mm. The Sony A7cR, combined with available small lenses, crossed the Leica off the list.

But- I'm a car guy so I understand how the experience of using an item can play into it if it's your hobby or you factor status into it. For photography I'm more practical...at least when it comes to Leica.

Nov 30, 2023 at 07:18 PM

Josef K.
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

chiron wrote:
If Sony had a watch it would be much leica a Seiko. Lots of digital tech inside instead of precision machining analog movement. But like a Sony camera it would outperform everything mechanical by a good margin.

Not a “status watch”, but Sony used to make Android smartwatches.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_SmartWatch

Nov 30, 2023 at 07:27 PM

nhsonyshooter
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

20,000 I'd be interested. 28,000 is alittle high

Nov 30, 2023 at 08:40 PM

patotts
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

I'm somewhat surprised they released a gold version of the Leica watch. It is really an odd-ball design - it has the look of a modern dress watch, but it is the size of sport watch (41mm case, 14.5mm thick) but not waterproof to 100m.

Sony would be a Seiko. Leica is definitely Rolex.

Nov 30, 2023 at 08:59 PM

Grenache
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

foto16 wrote:
If this doesn't confirm it, nothing does. I'm waiting for the Monolux!

There is a comparison of a7CR and the Leica Q3 on YouTube yesterday. The 300-dollar Viltrox 28mm 1.8 beat the Summilux in sharpness at all apertures.

https://youtu.be/X65XPOb-XPA?si=xBaH7S1NFsqX5MJ2

The Q as a camera is quite good but overpriced. Its lens is fundamentally marginal. That combo only accentuates the price point problem. Leica knows how to make a really nice 28mm lens. Their 28 Cron has been good for decades. Their wider aperture ‘lux’ on the Q is vastly inferior to the Cron.

Nov 30, 2023 at 11:56 PM

Goodrich
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

You say it's overpriced, but you could argue that it was underpriced as it still seems to be unobtainable due to supply shortages.

Dec 01, 2023 at 06:52 PM

1bwana1
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

Goodrich wrote:
You say it's overpriced, but you could argue that it was underpriced as it still seems to be unobtainable due to supply shortages.

You are correct, the market is the best gauge of value there is. From personal experience buying a selling used Leica equipment as I learn more and fine tune my system Leica has a lower cost of ownership than any camera system I have ever had. I almost always get my money back when I sell something that says Leica on it.

Dec 01, 2023 at 07:53 PM

tzhang4284
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

chiron wrote:
If Sony had a status watch, what would it be like?

Since you asked:

https://www.wareable.com/smartwatches/sony-wena-wrist-pro-active-review-6982
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/sony-wena-wrist-pro-and-active-straps

Dec 01, 2023 at 07:56 PM

tzhang4284
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

foto16 wrote:
If this doesn't confirm it, nothing does. I'm waiting for the Monolux!

There is a comparison of a7CR and the Leica Q3 on YouTube yesterday. The 300-dollar Viltrox 28mm 1.8 beat the Summilux in sharpness at all apertures.

https://youtu.be/X65XPOb-XPA?si=xBaH7S1NFsqX5MJ2

The Leica Q3 is a much smaller camera than that Viltrox lens with very good image quality. You're paying for the small size - true of the Leica Q3, Fuji X100V, Ricoh GR III series, and the RX1R II series. None of these cameras have better lenses than an interchangeable lens camera with a prime lens.

Personally, I would take a Q2/Q3 over that Viltrox and Sony A7C style body any day but I can understand others have different tolerances and budgets.

Dec 01, 2023 at 08:19 PM

chez
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

tzhang4284 wrote:
The Leica Q3 is a much smaller camera than that Viltrox lens with very good image quality. You're paying for the small size - true of the Leica Q3, Fuji X100V, Ricoh GR III series, and the RX1R II series. None of these cameras have better lenses than an interchangeable lens camera with a prime lens.

Personally, I would take a Q2/Q3 over that Viltrox and Sony A7C style body any day but I can understand others have different tolerances and budgets.

There are two big differences with the A7c.

1. You can use any prime you want on the camera. For me…this is a huge advantage.

2. Any new lens that comes along tomorrow can be used on the A7c. Technology and optics continue to evolve over time…the flexibility of the A7c allows you to participate with those advances.

Dec 01, 2023 at 08:26 PM

1bwana1
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

I know that my amazing, small, unique, Leica M lenses are all little jewels.

Dec 01, 2023 at 09:09 PM

tzhang4284
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

chez wrote:
There are two big differences with the A7c.

1. You can use any prime you want on the camera. For me…this is a huge advantage.

2. Any new lens that comes along tomorrow can be used on the A7c. Technology and optics continue to evolve over time…the flexibility of the A7c allows you to participate with those advances.

I still use a Sony A7C occasionally for travel so I'm quite familiar with it. In theory you're right but the advantage exists only if you're willing to tolerate a subpar user experience or subpar image quality. Most of Sony's best lenses are medium to large sized and unbalanced on the A7C body and the regular A7 bodies too for that matter. This is what led me to move away mostly from Sony, I concluded that all Sony bodies felt annoyingly unbalanced to me when paired with their best lenses. Sony could probably benefit from launching a Z8/Leica SL sized body.

When you narrow the available FE lenses to around the same dimensions as a Leica Q2 lens, there's only a handful that fit and then when you filter for image quality, even fewer good lenses available. Sony 40mm f2.5 is probably the best of the bunch in my opinion. Between a Sony 40mm f2.5 + Sony A7C and a Leica Q2/Q3, it's a tough call. The Sony certainly wins on price and AF performance but I do like the Leica lenses colors and rendering more from my experiences with both setup. The Sony is certainly the more practical option but I do think the Q2/Q3 is the more well deserved premium option.

As for your comment on future proofing, Sony's the most ruthless out of all the manufacturers in terms of making their past products obsolete in the name of advancement (I approve of this strategy actually) but that means you should be buying for current needs rather than hypothetical future needs.

Dec 01, 2023 at 09:23 PM

chez
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

tzhang4284 wrote:
I still use a Sony A7C occasionally for travel so I'm quite familiar with it. In theory you're right but the advantage exists only if you're willing to tolerate a subpar user experience or subpar image quality. Most of Sony's best lenses are medium to large sized and unbalanced on the A7C body and the regular A7 bodies too for that matter. This is what led me to move away mostly from Sony, I concluded that all Sony bodies felt annoyingly unbalanced to me when paired with their best lenses. Sony could probably benefit from launching a Z8/Leica SL sized...Show more →

As far as size goes…the Q2/3 is thrown out of the water if you want more than one focal length. I’d never go on a month long trip with just one focal length…so all of a sudden you not only need another lense(s), but also another camera. That’s where the A7cr shines…just put another compact lens onto the camera and you have a totally different view out of your viewfinder.

My comment about future proofing is more to do with lenses than cameras. As lenses advance you can always put the new ones onto your A7cr, giving you once again a lot of flexibility.

I can see a fixed lens camera to take out for a day of shooting, but using one as your only focal length during travels is way to limiting from my view.

Dec 01, 2023 at 09:53 PM

curious80
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Does this mean that Leicas really are jewelry rather than cameras?

chez wrote:
As far as size goes…the Q2/3 is thrown out of the water if you want more than one focal length. I’d never go on a month long trip with just one focal length…so all of a sudden you not only need another lense(s), but also another camera. That’s where the A7cr shines…just put another compact lens onto the camera and you have a totally different view out of your viewfinder.

My comment about future proofing is more to do with lenses than cameras. As lenses advance you can always put the new ones onto your A7cr, giving you once again a...Show more →

I think the tradeoffs between a fixed lens camera and an interchangeable lens camera are pretty clear to everyone, not sure there is any explanation needed on that front. The original point was that cameras like Lecia Q2/Q3, Sony RX1RII etc offer a unique compact package which is not achieved using interchangeable lens cameras. That bit is absolutely true. Whether that package is a good match for your needs or not is a totally different question and will vary for each person and each situation. I owned an RX1R II - in some ways I loved it and in some other ways I did not like it at all. Eventually I sold it but if had the money to afford a Lecia Q3 I would likely give it a try.

Edited on Dec 01, 2023 at 10:36 PM · View previous versions

Dec 01, 2023 at 10:16 PM

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