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Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

twodees
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p.12 #1 · p.12 #1 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

Then prepare for disappointment

randomguy wrote:
I believe what Sony ultimately chooses to do in future cameras depends on what customers demand.

Dec 12, 2023 at 10:08 AM

AZHeaven
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p.12 #2 · p.12 #2 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

gregfountain wrote:
It's just three 3 second bursts at 120/fps to get to over 1000 images. Seems like most folks that use this frame rate (sports/wildlife photographers) will be doing this for a couple of hours. That's a LOT of in-camera culling.

I brought this up in a Facebook photo forum and got dragged for it. As well as other comments I made. I love Sony. I love my A7IV. But man oh man the Sony fan boys are having fantasies about the A9III. I'm sure those that want the latest and greatest and have the money for it will buy it. Meanwhile, those paid sports photographers will get the A9III for free.

Dec 13, 2023 at 07:31 AM

KarmaKramer
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p.12 #3 · p.12 #3 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

120 fps…I’m getting carpel tunnel just thinking about it.

Dec 13, 2023 at 12:13 PM

arbitrage
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p.12 #4 · p.12 #4 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

120FPS with pre-capture enabled could be used very effectively to even possibly end up with less shots to cull at the end of the day than one might get now shooting an A1 at 30FPS.

I'm assuming you can have pre-capture on and still make use of the "boost" button to go from say 30 to 120FPS just when needed.

An example where I would use 120FPS is catching moment of impact of Osprey and KF dives. With the A1 at 30FPS and no pre-capture I start firing as the bird gets half way through the dive and just pray that the 30FPS happens to capture talon to water or beak to water. But even at 30FPS I have sequences with the bird a foot above the water and the next frame with the head already submerged. Only once in awhile do I get the magic shot. I waste a lot of frames at 30FPS getting it.
What I can imagine is having the camera in pre-capture and hitting the boost button and the shutter release once I see the osprey (or KF) hit the water. I'd only need that 1s of capture before the hit (maybe only 1/2s) and that would be 120 (or 60) frames. I typically end up with more than that shooting at 30FPS and having to blast away to get the shot. I'd then let off the boost as the osprey exits but could still make use of pre-capture to nail the water shake shot (although that isn't all that hard to nail without pre-capture). I hope Sony allows a button to be programmed to toggle on/off pre-capture. Knowing Sony I'm sure they will.

For sure I'm not going to be walking around blasting 60 or 120 FPS at every BIF....but I would certainly love to have the option to do so when I know it will help get more of the shots I'm after.

Like these....

July 01, 2022.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr

August 13, 2023.jpg by Bird/Wildlife Photos, on Flickr

Dec 13, 2023 at 01:21 PM

j4nu
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p.12 #5 · p.12 #5 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

Spot on!
It seems most people complaining about 120FPS don't get it...
arbitrage wrote:
120FPS with pre-capture enabled could be used very effectively to even possibly end up with less shots to cull at the end of the day than one might get now shooting an A1 at 30FPS.

I'm assuming you can have pre-capture on and still make use of the "boost" button to go from say 30 to 120FPS just when needed.

An example where I would use 120FPS is catching moment of impact of Osprey and KF dives. With the A1 at 30FPS and no pre-capture I start firing as the bird gets half way through the dive and just pray that...Show more →

Dec 13, 2023 at 02:05 PM

gocolts
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p.12 #6 · p.12 #6 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

While I don't have a need for the stand-out features of the camera, I actually like the route Sony is taking with the A9III...if it would have ended up being, for example, 25fps and 33mp, it's just a cheaper A1, and many would probably just buy an A1 unless some of the new features on the A7R5 that the A1 doesn't have (and this theoretical camera would) were important to you. With this, it's different than anything else, and satisfies some specific use cases that no other camera is. Similar to the A7cR when it comes to size. That's why they can get away with charging what they are IMO. I bought an A7cR because its benefits were spot-on for my use case, and I'm guessing others will justify the A9III for the same reason.

Dec 13, 2023 at 06:46 PM

michal.narozny
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p.12 #7 · p.12 #7 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

gocolts wrote:
While I don't have a need for the stand-out features of the camera, I actually like the route Sony is taking with the A9III...if it would have ended up being, for example, 25fps and 33mp, it's just a cheaper A1, and many would probably just buy an A1 unless some of the new features on the A7R5 that the A1 doesn't have (and this theoretical camera would) were important to you. With this, it's different than anything else, and satisfies some specific use cases that no other camera is. Similar to the A7cR when it comes to size. That's why...Show more →

I agree, but before the announcement noone really expected a global shutter. We knew it was coming, but it seemed that it was not good enough for consumer camera. A9iii with the feature set it has, it really stands out from a1. Both camera complement themselves.

Dec 16, 2023 at 02:49 PM

berimbolo
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p.12 #8 · p.12 #8 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

Quick IQ review from Northrup:

Dec 18, 2023 at 01:24 PM

arbitrage
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p.12 #9 · p.12 #9 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

I tried to watch that Northrup review but I couldn't bring myself to finish it as it is so poorly done. As soon as he said the A1 can "gather more light" because it can shoot ISO 100 I just shut it off.

Dec 18, 2023 at 06:31 PM

berimbolo
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p.12 #10 · p.12 #10 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

arbitrage wrote:
I tried to watch that Northrup review but I couldn't bring myself to finish it as it is so poorly done. As soon as he said the A1 can "gather more light" because it can shoot ISO 100 I just shut it off.

Tony is an idiot, but I think his findings are probably correct and are consistent with what many of us expected. Hopefully someone like Gerald Undone releases something soon.

Dec 18, 2023 at 06:50 PM

Lotuselite
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p.12 #11 · p.12 #11 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

I believe Mark Smith has said he will be posting something about the 300 F/2.8 with the two TCs.
I will be interested to see how that turns out.

Dec 18, 2023 at 08:05 PM

tuomkok
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p.12 #12 · p.12 #12 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

berimbolo wrote:
Tony is an idiot, but I think his findings are probably correct and are consistent with what many of us expected. Hopefully someone like Gerald Undone releases something soon.

That video was only 5 minutes long, making it more easy to watch.

It is to be expected that A9III does not have the image quality of A7rV. But how it fairs in comparison to older A9 cameras? That would be interesting to see. After watching Tony's video my prediction is that A9III image quality in low and very high ISO is considerable worse than mk1 A9. A painful idea

I still think that the decision of making A9III a global shutter camera serves mostly Sony's need to show of its leadership in sensor technology. It has its advantages it it is also a very niche camera. Current user base would have been much more happy with incremental improvements in stacked sensor technology. Think about a 33mpx A9III with faster electric shutter than its predecessors and improved image dynamic range throught the ISO range.

Dec 19, 2023 at 01:47 AM

randomguy
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p.12 #13 · p.12 #13 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

The decision to give A9III a global shutter makes sense for sports shooters who shoot under artificial light, often in front of flickering LED displays etc. For wildlife shooters it hardly make sense at all. Unless you are obsessed with perfect non distorted hummingbird wings or you photograph an animal in front of a thunderstorm in which case global shutter and pre shooting may make perfect sense.

I'd expect the DR to be similar to the first A9 version, which is more than a stop behind other Sony sensors. The A9 mark I is good at high ISO though. The biggest takeaway from Northrup's video is that the latest version of Lightroom / Camera Raw opens A9III files so you can look at some raws and make up your own mind.

With the prospect of an A1 II also coming next year, I don't expect many wildlife shooters to go for this.

Dec 19, 2023 at 03:25 AM

twodees
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p.12 #14 · p.12 #14 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

When Northrup said it was comparable (to a1) at iso250 I would think it (a9iii) will be about the same as the original a9 in terms of IQ/DR. Looking at DXOmark charts for DR a9 surpasses a1 at a point between iso1600 and 3200 so if a9iii matches a1 at that point (and higher isos) it's not in a bad place.

tuomkok wrote:
It is to be expected that A9III does not have the image quality of A7rV. But how it fairs in comparison to older A9 cameras? That would be interesting to see. After watching Tony's video my prediction is that A9III image quality in low and very high ISO is considerable worse than mk1 A9. A painful idea

Dec 19, 2023 at 03:44 AM

abase21
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p.12 #15 · p.12 #15 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

..I have compared the ISO3200 downscale at 4000X6000 (A9III and A1) the A9III Image looks dame good at 100%

Dec 19, 2023 at 06:18 AM

tuomkok
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p.12 #16 · p.12 #16 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

randomguy wrote:
The decision to give A9III a global shutter makes sense for sports shooters who shoot under artificial light, often in front of flickering LED displays etc. For wildlife shooters it hardly make sense at all. Unless you are obsessed with perfect non distorted hummingbird wings or you photograph an animal in front of a thunderstorm in which case global shutter and pre shooting may make perfect sense.

I'd expect the DR to be similar to the first A9 version, which is more than a stop behind other Sony sensors. The A9 mark I is good at high ISO though. The...Show more →

According to photons to photos A9 mk1 has very close same dynamic range as mk2. Mk 2 is marginally better, but no practical differences there, which is to be expected - same sensor.

To put this in context, A9 mk 1 and 2 have close to same low ISO dynamic range as A6700. Difference to A1 is in region of 1/2 stop. So actually quite good performance from the original A9 cameras.

Above ISO640 A9 mk1 & 2 perform the same or better than any Sony full frame camera, again very good performance. There is no hit from stacked sensor at high ISO.

Based on the knowledge available, at this stage of development we cannot expect A9 mk 1 & 2 level performance from A9III. Global shutter may be the future, but Sony came out very early with it.

Dec 19, 2023 at 07:36 AM

j4nu
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p.12 #17 · p.12 #17 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

tuomkok wrote:
According to photons to photos A9 mk1 has very close same dynamic range as mk2. Mk 2 is marginally better, but no practical differences there, which is to be expected - same sensor.

To put this in context, A9 mk 1 and 2 have close to same low ISO dynamic range as A6700. Difference to A1 is in region of 1/2 stop. So actually quite good performance from the original A9 cameras.

Above ISO640 A9 mk1 & 2 perform the same or better than any Sony full frame camera, again very good performance. There is no hit from stacked sensor at high...Show more →

To me it looks like the comparison to original A9 is spot on. That would still be quite an achievement for first gen GS in A9III.
I do think there is noticeable difference (at least on charts

) in base ISO performance between A9 and, fast-action, II and then, universal, A1 and then, top performers, A7R / A7RV.

Dec 19, 2023 at 08:22 AM

randomguy
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p.12 #18 · p.12 #18 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

tuomkok wrote:
According to photons to photos A9 mk1 has very close same dynamic range as mk2. Mk 2 is marginally better, but no practical differences there, which is to be expected - same sensor.

To put this in context, A9 mk 1 and 2 have close to same low ISO dynamic range as A6700. Difference to A1 is in region of 1/2 stop. So actually quite good performance from the original A9 cameras.

Above ISO640 A9 mk1 & 2 perform the same or better than any Sony full frame camera, again very good performance. There is no hit from stacked sensor at high...Show more →

https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Sony%20ILCE-1,Sony%20ILCE-9,Sony%20ILCE-9M2

9M2 is actually closer to A1 in dynamic range than it is to 9.

As for high ISO, I am not sure what available knowledge you are referring to. I am not able to tell which one is best of the A9III and A1 in that horrible Northrup example in the video. I have absolutely no idea what he has done to those files and the A1 seems to look more grainy and the A9III looks more blurry.

Dec 19, 2023 at 08:45 AM

tuomkok
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p.12 #19 · p.12 #19 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

randomguy wrote:
As for high ISO, I am not sure what available knowledge you are referring to. I am not able to tell which one is best of the A9III and A1 in that horrible Northrup example in the video. I have absolutely no idea what he has done to those files and the A1 seems to look more grainy and the A9III looks more blurry.

Photons to photos.

Northrup video was not well executed and evaluating different resolution cameras is difficult because of scaling and difference in AA filter. Good high ISO image quality is also about colors, low noise level is not the only attribute.

All in all, I am a little skeptical about A9III image quality. It will sure be ok for quick paced photojournalism and sports photography, and those are the genres of photography where benefits of global shutter are most obvious. But I am not sure if the problem Sony is tacking with global shutter are worth the compromises. 1-2 years and we will see if current A9 and A1 users in professional photojournalism switch to A9III.

Dec 19, 2023 at 12:59 PM

j4nu
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p.12 #20 · p.12 #20 · Official: Sony A9 III and FE 300mm f/2.8 GM announced

Not too shabby

Dec 22, 2023 at 10:27 AM

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