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A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

Blueshound
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

I primarily shoot static scenes, e.g. cityscapes, architecture, landscape, street views and interiors. Very few people, no wildlife and for the most part, nothing that moves.

I've just received an A7CR, and I've been setting it up, and taking the lack of the jog button (multi-selector) into consideration. Historically I mostly use S-AF, and move the focus point to where I want it. With the A7CR, I'm wondering if it makes more sense to trust the AF tracking abilities more, and instead of setting the AF-ON button to toggle between AF and Manual focus, to leave it as selecting between S-AF and C-AF with tracking? (Assuming this is an option - the out of box default was something like this, I think, but I changed it before giving it much thought.)

I have little use for Subject Recognition, rarely comes into play. I simply want to focus on a specific point in the scene, and then move the camera to recompose. If I need to hold down the AF-ON button, that's OK. Open to better methods, of course.

So my question is this: for users of the A7RV or the A7CR, do you find that the tracking options e.g. expand flexible spot w tracking, used for focus and recompose, are as accurate as S-AF? I mean "dead accurate", not "good enough".

Thanks for any experience or thoughts.

Brian

Nov 05, 2023 at 09:00 AM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

Brian, I do not have the A7c R yet but on the A7r V and A1, my AF setting is always on the AF-C. With that said, I always use the back button to focus. After getting the focus point I need for a certain shot, even if static, my shutter button won’t refocus and is used solely for triggering the shutter. So far, I haven’t seen any (grossly) misfocused images.

Nov 05, 2023 at 09:47 AM

Blueshound
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

AGeoJO wrote:
Brian, I do not have the A7c R yet but on the A7r V and A1, my AF setting is always on the AF-C. With that said, I always use the back button to focus. After getting the focus point I need for a certain shot, even if static, my shutter button won’t refocus and is used solely for triggering the shutter. So far, I haven’t seen any (grossly) misfocused images.

Thanks for the info. I use a half press on the shutter button to focus, but I don't think that preference matters much to this scenario. Always open to being corrected! From your comment, it seems that I could just leave the camera in C-AF with something such as Tracking: Expand Spot mode. I'll give this type of setup a trial and look at the results.

In this scenario, I can probably leave the AF-ON button on the back set to toggle between AF and Manual focus.

Brian

Nov 05, 2023 at 10:05 AM

AGeoJO
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

Blueshound wrote:
Thanks for the info. I use a half press on the shutter button to focus, but I don't think that preference matters much to this scenario. Always open to being corrected! From your comment, it seems that I could just leave the camera in C-AF with something such as Tracking: Expand Spot mode. I'll give this type of setup a trial and look at the results.

In this scenario, I can probably leave the AF-ON button on the back set to toggle between AF and Manual focus.

Brian

I am sharing my experience but this dated back to quite sometimes ago, maybe even when I was shooting a different brand. In order to make sure that the camera wouldn’t refocus, I tend to jab on the shutter that did result in some jerky movement. Now, the way my cameras is setup, I can squeeze the shutter gently without “fear” of triggering the focus. It is possible that that applies to me and someone else’s experience may be different than that.

Nov 05, 2023 at 10:27 AM

Blueshound
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

What I noticed was that the tracking worked when the camera was horizontal, but the same settings did not provide tracking when the camera was vertical. I tried every Focus Area / Tracking type, but no difference. It will track with the camera held vertically if AF-C & tracking on, if Subject Recognition is on, set to Human, and there is a person in the frame. But not with a static subject.

I tried the same thing with my A7RIV, and it functions in tracking, whether the camera is held horizontally or vertically. I must be missing a setting somewhere.

Any thoughts? I realize I'm not all that familiar with tracking settings, so there's that.

EDIT: I found the relevant setting. It's something like "Switch V / H AF Area" or similar. Needs to be set to OFF.

Brian

Nov 08, 2023 at 01:27 PM

Eruditass
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

In AF-C, only phase detect information is used, compared to phase detect and contrast detect in AF-C.

Most mirrorless cameras (all as far as I know) have phase detect AF points that sensitive to vertical detail only, as opposed to cross type PDAF or Quad Pixel AF. So there can be an impact on areas with strictly horizontal detail. AF is pretty good though that anu amount of vertical detail will be enough generally.

Nov 08, 2023 at 06:44 PM

Bobg657
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

Fwiw, here’s my take. If you are on a tripod and stable I’d use SAF, if handheld CAF to correct for camera movement (continuously focusing).

Bob

Nov 08, 2023 at 07:00 PM

tsdevine
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

FWIW, AF-S will open the aperture (not sure to what f-stop) to focus, which in theory could lead to focus shift depending on the lens and aperture you're shooting. AF-C will focus with the set aperture. Whether that actually matters.....who knows. YMMV.

Nov 08, 2023 at 10:15 PM

Blueshound
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

tsdevine wrote:
FWIW, AF-S will open the aperture (not sure to what f-stop) to focus, which in theory could lead to focus shift depending on the lens and aperture you're shooting. AF-C will focus with the set aperture. Whether that actually matters.....who knows. YMMV.

This thing about when Sony elects to retain the set aperture during focusing, or to open it temporarily during focusing so as not to adversely affect the view in the EVF, was a hot topic some time ago. Below is copied from the A7CR manual, on Aperture Drive, which is what governs the camera's behaviour. The question is which of these settings doesn't change the shooting aperture in order to preserve a better view. (As usual, Sony's descriptions aren't very clear, and require some interpretation on the part of the reader; perhaps this is in part a translation issue.)

"Focus Priority: Changes the aperture drive system to prioritize auto-focusing performance.

Standard: Uses the standard aperture drive system.

Silent Priority: Changes the aperture drive system to prioritize silence so that the sound from the aperture drive is quieter than in[Standard]

When [Focus Priority] is selected, sound from the aperture drive may be audible, or the aperture effect may not be visible on themonitor. To avoid these phenomena, change the setting to [Standard]

When [Silent Priority] is selected, the focusing speed may become slower, and it may be more difficult to focus on a subject.
The effect may differ depending on the lens you use and the shooting conditions."

I'm not clear on which of the above settings DOES NOT open the aperture during AF. I thought I knew, but now not sure. (I read elsewhere that Standard was the setting for this.)

Brian

Nov 09, 2023 at 09:03 AM

Jonas B
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

Blueshound wrote:
[...]I'm not clear on which of the above settings DOES NOT open the aperture during AF. I thought I knew, but now not sure. (I read elsewhere that Standard was the setting for this.)
Brian

Neither am I... and I just tried to figure it out.
Sitauion: With the A7CR, indoor, spotlight at a corner with a lot of light and the rest of the room normally lit except for two dark corners.
Settings: AF-C, A and S mode, Aperture drive set to Focus Priority followed by Standard and Silent. FE 50/1.4GM.

I didn't really get it: the aperture changes as you focus in all scenarios. When set to Focus priority the aperture opening is altered even when not focusing, probably to let a decent amount of light hit the sensor making the lens able to set focus the meoment you press your focusing button of choice. This was the only showing that behaviour.
In Silent mode the aperture blades are nearly always locked at the "working" position - they opened and closed a little only depending on the light situation at the target. In Standard position the blades moved a little more than in Silent but not that much.

N.B. These settings are available only when using "half mechanical" shutter. In silent mode the choice is disabled and set to the default position /Standard).

As I use silent shutter unless sometimes, not often at all, shooting indoors in bulb, tube or LED light I lost interest in investigating this in a systematic way. I simply use Standard. The camera seemed to focus as fast in all three modes.

Somebody else more committed than me may provide more detailed findings. I just didn't notice anything making me really care. Standard seem to work fine.

Nov 10, 2023 at 02:15 PM

swldstn
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

It may not effect what your doing but remember both AF-S and AF-C have a setting the chooses when to release the shutter. You can choose from AF, Release, or Balanced Emphasis. I set AF-S to AF and AF-C to Balanced. I believe the default has them both set to Balanced.

This is setup the Focus menu with the following two sub menus
Focus->AF/MF->Priority Set in AF-S
Focus->AF/MF->Priority Set in AF-C

If set to Release it will try to immediately release the shutter no matter what the AF system’s status is.

Nov 10, 2023 at 05:40 PM

Michael Everet
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

In the past, with other Sony cameras, I used shutter half-press to set the focus and the moved the camera to frame the picture. I notice with the 7cr that the shutter button is very soft, and it is sometimes hard to hold it half-down without accidently tripping the shutter. Anyone else noticed this about the cr shutter?

Nov 10, 2023 at 11:08 PM

Blueshound
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

By soft, do you mean that it triggers the shutter easily? It's early days with the A7CR for me, but I haven't noticed that. But then I'm accustomed to a Panasonic G9, in addition to the A7RIV. The G9 has the most sensitive shutter button of any modern camera I've ever handled, to the point where other owners have complained that the shutter was triggered too easily.

I liked it, and adjusted almost immediately. It makes the shutter button on the RIV feel sluggish by comparison.

Perhaps other users will wade in on this question.

Brian

Nov 11, 2023 at 08:32 AM

flash
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

The rear screen on the A7CR can act as a touchpad (like a laptop) to move the focus point, as it doesn't have a joystick. So you can use that to place the focus point when shooting via the EVF.

Gordon

Nov 11, 2023 at 03:00 PM

marcelography
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

Michael Everet wrote:
In the past, with other Sony cameras, I used shutter half-press to set the focus and the moved the camera to frame the picture. I notice with the 7cr that the shutter button is very soft, and it is sometimes hard to hold it half-down without accidently tripping the shutter. Anyone else noticed this about the cr shutter?

I have that feeling as well, comparing to the A7C. Gotta try switching AF to the back button and leaving the shutter button only for that single purpose and see how it feels.

Overall I feel that the AFC on the A7CR is losing track of what I'm picking as a focus point than it did on the A7C, I can't compare them side by side until I fly back home but in a general way it has been more frustrating in that sense. I mostly shoot static street scenes with the occasional moving subject so I have gotten used to leaving it on AFC expanded spot tracking for everything on the A7C and it has been pretty nice.

Nov 11, 2023 at 10:57 PM

swldstn
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

marcelography wrote:
I have that feeling as well, comparing to the A7C. Gotta try switching AF to the back button and leaving the shutter button only for that single purpose and see how it feels.

Overall I feel that the AFC on the A7CR is losing track of what I'm picking as a focus point than it did on the A7C, I can't compare them side by side until I fly back home but in a general way it has been more frustrating in that sense. I mostly shoot static street scenes with the occasional moving subject so I have gotten used to...Show more →

I’ve always been a back button focus user since the DSLR days but remember that you can adjust the sensitivity/ stickiness of the tracking as well. Give it a try to see if that will help you.

Nov 12, 2023 at 08:08 AM

marcelography
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

swldstn wrote:
I’ve always been a back button focus user since the DSLR days but remember that you can adjust the sensitivity/ stickiness of the tracking as well. Give it a try to see if that will help you.

good point. tried that already shortly after getting the camera, both extremes to check how they felt - didn't feel much of a difference in that regard, but giving that a go again, a month using the camera daily already so any differences should be more easy to perceive.

Nov 12, 2023 at 08:34 AM

Blueshound
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · A7RV & A7CR users: is accuracy of AF-C w tracking equal to S_AF?

Below is a link to a Flick album I've started, the only purpose being to post a few "proof of concept" images taken with the A7CR. Currently only three using the PZ 16-35 lens. I'll get to the 20-70 next, but the 16-35 is just such a great match, being so light. Focus method for these shots was AF-S, single shot mode, with the medium spot focus box moved to the focus point. This camera comes out of the box with the center button in the rear multi-function dial set to toggle between move focus point and not. I find this sufficiently convenient for most uses.

All edited to taste from RAW, and posted at larger sizes for a better view, but you have to follow the link for this.

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjB2UN5

Thumbnails, for those who don't want to see the larger views on Flickr:

Tuscan Kitchen_PL7 by Brian Gammon, on Flickr

Riva from Rear by Brian Gammon, on Flickr

Bay Centre Concourse Clock by Brian Gammon, on Flickr

Nov 12, 2023 at 08:50 AM


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