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Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

shutterbug40
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p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

sum1sgrampa wrote:
Personally, I'm very much interested in hearing from folks who use different gear. If someone is using something other than say, Nikon, I like knowing their reasons for their choices. There's no such thing as too much information. Just take what you can use and leave the rest.

I have been shooting Sony since they came out with mirrorless (started with A7RII), but shot Nikon DSLR for a long time.....I went to mirrorless for weight savings and because it was a "new" technology (although a bit of a misnomer).

It's a little mystifying to me why there is so much back-and-forth between people shooting one brand vs another. There are things Sony does better than Nikon, some things Nikon does better than Sony, etc. But it's the same way with everything else......I am a musician and the Fender vs Gibson has raged forever, Ford vs Chevy, IOS vs Android.....glad we all have choices

Nov 07, 2023 at 10:23 AM

RoamingScott
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p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

MikeInPa wrote:
Excellent post Scott, that's certainly telling like it is.

What possible motivation is there for someone to continue posting disparaging propaganda not once or twice but what seems to be nearly 24 hours a day. Look at the timing of his posts over just the 6th and 7th. I don't care what time zone the Forum uses but see for yourself the post times recorded below.

November 6th.
3:27AM
12:13PM
2:11PM
2:13PM
2:23PM
3:14PM
4:04PM
5:06PM
5:07PM
5:10PM
7:04PM
8:10PM
9:25PM
11:59PM

November 7th.
12:54AM
4:31AM

Are we looking at a single individual or perhaps an entire Troll Farm posting under a single username?

Sadly he is a real person. And even sadder, this isn't the only place he posts.

Nov 07, 2023 at 10:26 AM

RoamingScott
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p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

Jman13 wrote:
BTW....injecting more fun into this - did you guys see the A9 III announcement? Holy crud. Global shutter, 1/80,000s shutter speeds with flash sync at all shutter speeds, 120fps RAW with AF / AE between frames.

I have no need for that level of speed, but my god. I'm just imagning some of the photos we'll get of golf, baseball, racket sports, etc, that were literally impossible before, since they'll be able to freeze motion, almost certainly get impact shots, and with zero distortion.

How is this relevant to the Z9 4.1 FW again? There are any number of Sony vs Nikon threads this could go in.

Nov 07, 2023 at 10:33 AM

sum1sgrampa
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p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

shutterbug40 wrote:
I have been shooting Sony since they came out with mirrorless (started with A7RII), but shot Nikon DSLR for a long time.....I went to mirrorless for weight savings and because it was a "new" technology (although a bit of a misnomer).

It's a little mystifying to me why there is so much back-and-forth between people shooting one brand vs another. There are things Sony does better than Nikon, some things Nikon does better than Sony, etc. But it's the same way with everything else......I am a musician and the Fender vs Gibson has raged forever, Ford vs Chevy, IOS vs...Show more →

Of course. Wherever there's a competing product and the internet you'll eventually get a war. I'm sure someone somewhere is discussing the finer points of a certain knitting needle

What I've noticed here though is it's not often about the actual products so much. That all gets lost in the personal trash talk.

Nov 07, 2023 at 10:40 AM

sum1sgrampa
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p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

RoamingScott wrote:
How is this relevant to the Z9 4.1 FW again? There are any number of Sony vs Nikon threads this could go in.

Classic post from you. You spend the better part of a thread derailing it with your nonsense and then all of a sudden wonder why it's gone off track. Stop in to any Home Depot, they sell mirrors, I suggest you buy one and hang it in a conspicuous spot in your home.

Nov 07, 2023 at 10:44 AM

Jman13
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p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

RoamingScott wrote:
How is this relevant to the Z9 4.1 FW again? There are any number of Sony vs Nikon threads this could go in.

This discussion has largely gone the way of comparing the Z9 to the A1...and now there's another camera that some may also view as competition for wildlife and other action shooting. I've got no intention of switching back to Sony or anything (and even if I did, I wouldn't get the A9 III), but it is interesting in the realm of action photography, which includes wildlife and birding.

Still, no, you're right that it's not directly in discussion for the Z9 firmware.

Nov 07, 2023 at 10:46 AM

twodees
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p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

I was pulling your leg in reference to a comment you made on someone's else bif images but drop me a dm and I'll send a link to my website.

RoamingScott wrote:
Post yours 🫠

Nov 07, 2023 at 11:10 AM

Creative Edge
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p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

suteetat wrote:
Global shutter is very very nice and it has been long time coming for CMOS sensor.
Back in the good old days when Nikon was CCD and Canon was CMOS, one advantage of
CCD was global shutter so D70 could sync with flash at any SS that it supports.
Then Nikon gave up on CCD and went with CMOS in D2X.
I can't remember what was the last CCD with autofocus, may be it was D70 but I am not certain.
Leica M9 is the last FF camera with CCD and global shutter, I think.
Finally Sony can make CMOS with global shutter,...Show more →

The D1x also had it and I used it often with strobes outdoors, loved that feature

Nov 07, 2023 at 11:19 AM

RoamingScott
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p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

I know, I’m just messing with you

twodees wrote:
I was pulling your leg in reference to a comment you made on someone's else bif images but drop me a dm and I'll send a link to my website.

Nov 07, 2023 at 11:24 AM

Max Power
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p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

RoamingScott wrote:
How is this relevant to the Z9 4.1 FW again? There are any number of Sony vs Nikon threads this could go in.

Think of it as a signal flare to send some scampering back to their hive.

Nov 07, 2023 at 11:33 AM

RoamingScott
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p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

Max Power wrote:
Think of it as a signal flare to send some scampering back to their hive.

I'm just enjoying the "sony is the first to do global shutter" posts in the hive

Nov 07, 2023 at 11:39 AM

gkinard1952
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p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

Although I am a Canon shooter. I watched the video, and it is a great video. I am able to kind of insert the Canon 200-800 into the mix. And imagine how the 200-800 will be. Definitely pass no the Canon 200-800 but would love to have the 600PF..

Nov 07, 2023 at 01:18 PM

mogul
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p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

I wonder how long Nikon will have to wait to put Sony's new sensor into one of their cameras. Will Nikon's slower lens motors be a detriment with a global shutter sensor?

Nov 07, 2023 at 01:40 PM

JustShootMe
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p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

Nov 07, 2023 at 01:43 PM

RoamingScott
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p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

JustShootMe wrote:
Everything trickles down eventually .. weird thing is base ISO of 250 .. wonder what that's about.

Global shutter sensors typically have less dynamic range than regular sensors, not surprising at all.

Plus it gives them wiggle room to sell you a new camera...OH THE A9IV HAS ISO 200!!

Nov 07, 2023 at 01:54 PM

CanadaMark
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p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

JustShootMe wrote:
Everything trickles down eventually .. weird thing is base ISO of 250 .. wonder what that's about.

It looks to be very much a niche sports camera, and it was released alongside a lens that is primarily used by sports photographers - likely targeting next years' Olympics. Probably best in class for that purpose, but not so much for other genres. The low (relative) resolution is not attractive for most other types of photography, but is great for sports where often little editing is done or you're shooting JPEGs anyway, and the base ISO of 250 is not going to be desirable for the landscape/studio crowd or DR lovers. It's a specialized sports body as far as I can tell, and it looks like it will do that very well. Hopefully we see more (modern) bodies with global shutters in the future.

Nov 07, 2023 at 02:09 PM

CanadaMark
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p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

mogul wrote:
I wonder how long Nikon will have to wait to put Sony's new sensor into one of their cameras. Will Nikon's slower lens motors be a detriment with a global shutter sensor?

What does the shutter type have to do with lens motors? Nikon does not use slower lens motors, I am not sure where you're getting that from. They just use a different type of motor to achieve the same thing. Other factors make a big difference as well such as acceleration and stopping precision. They have no problem keeping up to 120FPS with full AE/AF in the existing bodies, and until the A9III hits the market, they are still the only FF MILCs that can do that

Nov 07, 2023 at 02:16 PM

mogul
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p.9 #18 · p.9 #18 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

Just looking at S. Perry's video comparing the Sony's 200/600 to Nikon's 180/600.

Nov 07, 2023 at 02:19 PM

ilkka_nissila
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p.9 #19 · p.9 #19 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

I would argue the opposite: most images are displayed on small and/or low-resolution screens and even 24 MP leaves room for finishing refinements by cropping. Very few practical applications of photography benefit materially from higher resolutions IMO. And more and more people view images on small screens. Birds are one of the few subjects that significantly benefit from high-resolution sensors. Often the high resolution is lost due to noise present at high ISO needed to freeze movement outside of the narrow and typically unphotogenic light of bright sunlight.

Plenty of event photography and photojournalism also takes place in very low light at very high ISO, where image quality of the 20-24 MP sensors is typically superior to the 45 MP. Indoor events are an important example, another is simply documenting human life indoors or at night. I far prefer the 20 MP and 24 MP for non-studio indoor applications despite the 45 MP having some advantages of its own due to the stacked sensor.

The A9 III's global shutter should make it a popular choice for situations where the photographer would otherwise run into problems with artificial (flickering) lights or fast movement (e.g. propeller motion, fast panning etc.) that could lead to rolling shutter distortion in other cameras. No problems with flashes at any shutter speed. I would not specifically need the global shutter but if Nikon made a similar camera it would be of interest to me. I wonder how much of a dynamic range penalty there is from the global shutter.

However; the A9 III is quite expensive and this probably limits its user base to specialists who need its characteristics such as the speed and lack of distortion. If it were somewhat less expensive, it could be attractive to a lot of wedding, event, PJs and videographers and not only those specializing in fast action. LED panels are a big problem when photographing many live stages where the background panels cause banding even with mechanical shutters; global shutter is likely to make it easy to work in such environments.

The 300/2.8 is also very useful not only for sports but also events such as concerts on large stages, it can also be a very good lens for photographing mammals inside the dim light at pine forests. It used to be one of the most popular telephotos and if I had to own just one long lens > 200mm it would be by far my preferred choice. The Sony 300/2.8's low weight will no doubt make it very popular among Sony users. It's also far more affordable and much smaller and lighter than a 400/2.8 TC or 120-300/2.8.

CanadaMark wrote:
It looks to be very much a niche sports camera, and it was released alongside a lens that is primarily used by sports photographers - likely targeting next years' Olympics. Probably best in class for that purpose, but not so much for other genres. The low (relative) resolution is not attractive for most other types of photography, but is great for sports where often little editing is done or you're shooting JPEGs anyway, and the base ISO of 250 is not going to be desirable for the landscape/studio crowd or DR lovers. It's a specialized sports body as far as...Show more →

Edited on Nov 07, 2023 at 02:55 PM · View previous versions

Nov 07, 2023 at 02:35 PM

CanadaMark
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p.9 #20 · p.9 #20 · Steve Perry on the Z9 with FW 4.1 - follow up video

mogul wrote:
Just looking at S. Perry's video comparing the Sony's 200/600 to Nikon's 180/600.

Racking a lens from MFD to Infinity is not an accurate indication of AF speed during actual usage, and is not a normal situation you run into in the field. AF speed is not perfectly linear throughout the range, and not every lens has the same physical AF travel, which are other reasons why lens AF speed is so difficult to measure objectively. You might have a lens that is slower to move through it's full range but is faster from, say, 10m to 30m. You could also have a lens with a faster motor, but takes longer to move through the range because the physical distance it has to move lens elements is greater.

You would need to somehow track a subject that you could control the speed of coming towards or away from the camera and increase the subject speed until the lens can't keep up - that failure point would be the limit of either the camera body or the lens AF motor. It's just a really difficult thing to measure in a meaningful way due to the variables you have to control. I've always thought one of those robotic bunnies they use at horse races would make a good target for AF testing because it's fast and repeatable, but I have no idea how you'd gain access to one of those haha.

In the case of the 200-600 and 180-600, those are both the "value" zooms, and neither represents the fastest focusing lens Nikon/Sony have to offer. We know the 180-600 can keep up with 120FPS on a Z8/Z9 with full AF/AE between each frame, I would expect the Sony will be able too as well on the upcoming A9III.

You can track fast action with surprisingly slow focusing lenses, for example a fast bird like a swallow headed towards the camera is easily achievable even with older budget zooms. Motion perpendicular to the camera barely uses the AF motor so that is not an issue in any case. The speed at which pretty much any modern lens can adjust to subject distance changes once locked on is adequate for most subjects. There are AF speed differences in the middle of the AF range between lenses but they are incredibly difficult to measure objectively and usually not the weakest link. If you are someone who often finds themselves needing to go from literal MFD to infinity and back regularly, and would miss a lot of shots if you were a fraction of a second slower, then the way Steve measures would be applicable to your use case. To be fair, that is pretty much the only way anyone can measure in their back yard for YouTube or whatever, but it doesn't translate well to use in the field.

Nov 07, 2023 at 02:51 PM

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