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Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

foto16
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

Dear friends,

I'm thinking about trying some manual lenses such as the Voigtlander 40/1.2 or 35/1.5 for portraits. These are attractive because of their small sizes combined with the A7CII--there are plenty of compact f1.8-2 AF lenses, but the f1.4 AF lenses tend to exceed my weight and size limits.

What's your experience focusing these manual lenses at f1.2/1.4 for portraits? What is the percentage of getting tack sharp eyes? I guess if the model can hold still between poses it should be quite doable. But what if the model is constantly turning his/her head to different directions and moving around to pose?

A related question: do you feel the background blur is quite noticeable between f1.4 and f2 at 35-40mm focal length (not a scientific question since obviously it depends on the distance and complexity of the background)?

Many thanks!

Oct 31, 2023 at 11:29 AM

grahamgibson
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

I used the MF e-mount CV40 for years. With practice, you can get an OK hit rate even without using the magnifier. But not even close to AF lenses. I'm used to taking pictures of my kids, not models though

I tried the Sigma 35/2 and also have the Sony 35 GM at the moment. Neither can match the CV40 for background blur. The first reason is f-stop of course. But also the focal length makes a noticeable difference.

I now use the VM version of the CV40 with the Techart adapter for autofocus and it is better than I could be manually focusing wide open. It's still not as good as a GM, but I can use it for personal fun photos.

If I was doing paid work, I would want the most reliable lens for AF and size considerations would be an afterthought. The Sigma 35/1.2 or Sony 35GM would be at the top of my list.

Oct 31, 2023 at 12:11 PM

InFocus2014
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

When I had the Voigtlander 40mm/1.2, I found the lens to be far too frustrating to use for portraits.

Focus-recompose does not work well with f1.2 lenses, so I needed to move the focus point in the frame and then let magnified focus work. That takes time, which is not good for portraits. Even if I could remain stationary, the subjects often did not - adding to the challenge. I cannot remember the number of poorly focused shots, but the percentage was notable.

AF-C and Eye Focus allows me to nail focus 99% of the time with my 35mm f1.2, 35mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2 lenses, not to mention the ability to have the subject move around a bit and catch ideal facial expressions, etc. My full attention is now directed at getting great shots, rather than directing so much energy to focusing. For me, Eye Focus has been a complete 'game changer'.

Having said all that, there will be many FM members that will responds with how great a portrait lens this is and will highly recommend it.

Edited on Oct 31, 2023 at 12:19 PM · View previous versions

Oct 31, 2023 at 12:12 PM

chez
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

I’d opt for capturing the great expression in focus than worrying too much about the quality of bokeh and not quite in focus eyes. The latest releases of cameras have heavy focus ( no pun ) on eye detection and tracking…take advantage of this with AF lenses.

Oct 31, 2023 at 12:18 PM

SpecFoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

InFocus2014 wrote:
When I had the Voigtlander 40mm/1.2, I found the lens to be far too frustrating to use for portraits.

Focus-recompose does not work well with f1.2 lenses, so I needed to move the focus point in the frame and then let magnified focus work. That takes time, which is not good for portraits. Even if I could remain stationary, the subjects often did not - adding to the challenge. I cannot remember the number of poorly focused shots, but the percentage was notable.

AF-C and Eye Focus allows me to nail focus 99% of the time with my 35mm f1.2, 35mm f1.4...Show more →

Exactly what @InFocus2014 said. Have been shooting mostly outside nature portraits for about 15 years years. Had the Nikon 50 f1.2 and 35 f1.4 ais MF lenses on a D800 and later the Voigtlander 40 f1.2 on a Sony A7III. The keeper rate was very low compared to AF, less than half. I switched to Sony because of the Eye AF in 2018 and once I really started to use Eye Focus on the A7III, I gave up tying to use such a shallow DOF with a MF lens for portraits. Now use the 35 and 50 1.4 GM, along with the Batis 85 and 135mm.

Oct 31, 2023 at 03:00 PM

foto16
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

Dear friends, many thanks for your kind responses and first hand experience!

Oct 31, 2023 at 03:24 PM

doc4x5
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

In my not so humble opinion, using a MF lens for portraits is like tying weights to your legs and trying to run a marathon. It can be done, but it's not much fun.

If one is really attempting to do a high quality portrait photograph, in today's world, there's really no substitute for AF lenses. There are so many excellent AF lenses from which to choose, from the 50 f/1.2GM, to the 85 f/1.4GM, to the 135 f/1.8GM with many less expensive ones as well.

Torture yourself with MF lenses for portraits if you must, but keep your expectations low. You'll likely get a great facial expression with blurred eyes... or sharp eyes and an unacceptable facial expression, take your pick.

MF lenses excel in the landscape though if one wishes to focus stack, they are slow and challenging to use even there.

I'm really not trying to tell folks what to do. I have had lots of experience over many years (like before there were AF lenses). Have fun, challenge yourself if you wish.

Oct 31, 2023 at 03:55 PM

Choderboy
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

You need to adjust either your size and weight limits, your speed choice, or the effort required to achieve focus with MF. Accepting MF issues probably the worst choice.
You don't have to hire a sherpa and get the Sigma 35 1.2.
Sigma 35 f2. AF, small and light. Sony 35 1.4. Small and light, for a 1.4.

Oct 31, 2023 at 08:08 PM

foto16
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

What's puzzling is that the Leica M shooters seem to be quite satisfied with manually focusing their f1.4 lenses for portraits. I don't believe the rangefinder focusing mechanism is vastly superior to mirrorless cameras' magnification+peaking for human eyes to assess critical focusing. So it must be the case that either their models don't move or they just accept a low success rate or somewhat blurry images--but then why pay for a high megapixel Leica M...

Oct 31, 2023 at 08:41 PM

chez
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

foto16 wrote:
but then why pay for a high megapixel Leica M...

Good question.

Oct 31, 2023 at 09:00 PM

1bwana1
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

I do shoot portraits with my 35mm Summilux at 1.4 on my M11 using the range finder with good success. But the focal length gives me a sufficient DOF to make it easier.

I also shoot my 75mm VM Nokton at f1.5 also with good success rates. But it requires practice and different techniques. I often rely on my EVF focus aids and the "rocking" technique to get a high focus rate.

On my Sony A1 I use my fast GM primes at f1.2 and f1.4 when I want that look. I get focus on the surface of the pupil close to 100% of the time. Brain dead easy.

Pick your poison but when I must get high hit rates and take lots of images it is the A1 and AF.

Oct 31, 2023 at 09:52 PM

Slalom
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

Hmmm, my OM2N with f1.4 Zuiko was (is) better at focussing manually than all the electric cameras I have tried.

Indeed it was good enough to focus then stop down for the depth of field required perhaps adjusting if the focus point was not sensible for your desired dof.

Nov 01, 2023 at 02:49 AM

MAubrey
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

I can't speak to the 40mm. But I spent years shooting my Canon FD85L wide open before I got a native AF 85mm prime on my A7 and then A7rII. I shot weddings and events with it. It all comes down to practice. Magnification and peaking work. Honestly, when you get to know your lenses, peaking alone can give you a high rate. You learn what 'in focus' looks like.

If a shot was particularly critical, set your camera to burst and use that to compensate for you and your subject's movement.

Edited on Nov 01, 2023 at 06:40 AM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2023 at 05:24 AM

rob_ww
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

Up until about 2018 I only used manual focus -- various Leica M models with f1.4 lenses. It is possible to get a good % of keepers and practice helps enormously. It becomes subconscious. I do think the rangefinder focusing is much better than simple magnification. The image 'pops' into focus when the two areas in the patch are aligned. And I do believe Sony could provide much smarter MF assist if they thought about it. One thing I do like about MF is you get to choose exactly what you want to be in focus.

By 2018 my eyesight was starting to deteriorate and I could no longer see well enough to focus manually, so I moved to autofocus cameras. Initially, Leica autofocus (based on Panasonic) which was pretty awful. Very frustrating for portrait work. Then I changed to Sony in 2022. Hello world! This is what AF should be.

Now I have had my cataract operation I could go back to MF and in some ways I would like to, but the MF assist in Sony and other manufacturers is not good enough to use in many real world situations.

As others have said, if you are prepared to carry the extra size/weight the AF does the work and you can pay attention to capturing the right moment -- the 'decisive moment' if that phrase is still used.

Edited on Nov 01, 2023 at 10:09 AM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2023 at 05:28 AM

jojib
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

Personally I don't see the need for manual lenses. Today's software bodes well for relatively lighter f/1.8 lenses with my APS-C A6700 i.e. if I need to blur the background more, the PS lens blur (I use it for RAW files) and neural filter (depth blur filter) that I use for jpeg files and relatively easy to use. And if noise is a concern there are more tools to use like the superb DeNoise with PS, Deep Prime XD with DXO PL 7 Elite and Topaz AI. Moreover, the A6700's much vaunted eye-AF technology is superb to use. I'm a dual system user (Sony and Canon). So when I feel like going lighter I would whip out my A6700 and Sonnar 55/1.8 or Batis 85/1.8 for headshots and general portraiture vs. R6MKII and 85/1.2 or 135/2. If I want to shoot environmental portraits I could go A6700 + Zony 24/1.8 vs. R6MKII and 35/1.4.

Nov 01, 2023 at 07:13 AM

sergun
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Focusing manual lenses at f1.2 or f1.4 for portraits

If you have good eyesight, then it is quite possible to adapt to manual lenses. This is not a quick process, but it is quite suitable. I always use a magnifying glass.

Катя by Сергей Пашнин, on Flickr

Егор-6 by Сергей Пашнин, on Flickr

Nov 01, 2023 at 07:27 AM


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