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Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

lukeiam
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

I’ve cycled through a few brands and am currently on the Nikon Z. But I started with Canon…And there’s some gas afoot here — no doubt — but I do paid work a lot and have a rented studio space, so I’m not just a bored hobbyist.

But once I got over the Dxo nonsense I’ve been curious of the Canon bodies…I’m a maximalist, so my mind was always like “sensor tech!!” and the Nikon/Sony sensors (Sony’s) just seemed better…but that’s not the whole story, especially for portraiture, which I do…It’s not a wonder that like 80% of the editorial folks I follow used the R5 or the DLSR. Some use the Nikon or Z, but very few.

My thing is I really like fast 50s like the ARTs. I love the ART line. Nikon doesn’t have it in mirrorless, neither does Canon. But I just can’t get into Sony. The ergos suck…the mount, I find it weird. Why so narrow? Makes no sense.

Anyway, I want to adapt ART primes to a mirrorless and the FTZ is a funky prospect IMO. The Canon seems like such a better setup for that, no doubt because of the mount diameter similarities.

But, where to start? What Canon mirrorless? There are soooo many. I’m kinda baffled. 24+ megapixels would be great…but dipping my toes into Canon it may be a good idea to start small. Thought I could afford an R5. Clog 10-bit would be fun too, bc I want to dip into video a bit more…Anyway, thanks for reading!

Oct 31, 2023 at 09:55 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

I've seen your multiple GAS threads on just about every sub forum now

Oct 31, 2023 at 09:59 AM

jedibrain
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

I use the 50mm Sigma Art adapted to an R6. Its fantastic. If you are doing this because you miss the rendering of those lenses and can't practically use them on Nikon, you have a high chance of being happy with EF Art glass on an R body, with a Canon adapter.

The R5 is a really good value now, particularly on the used market. New deals have been as low as $3k USD recently - pretty amazing. May get cheaper in Q1 2024 when the R5II comes out.

But also consider the R6mkII. 24mp, most up to date AF system. $2500 new. That and the R5 would be my two first thoughts on upgrading in or switching to the Canon system right now. Even an R6 original is less than 2k right now. But 20mp, which was below your requirement. Its basically the 1DXmkIII in an R body. Great value and great performer.

-Brian

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:23 AM

lukeiam
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

RoamingScott wrote:
I've seen your multiple GAS threads on just about every sub forum now

but the question remains...what are you trying to DO by switching? What do you feel you are lacking from a hardware perspective that any particular brand can't give you?

Most GAS like this where there is indecision between all the brands is really a lack of clarity on the problem. Is it your gear? Is it your skills behind the camera or in post? Is it just a lack of vision or creativity? All important things to ask yourself before spending big money on a switch.

The 50mm is a big issue for me and Nikon. A fast 50. Absolutely. The FTZ is not my jam! So I'm trying to move camps. The 50 1.2 for the Z mount is -- even if a technical marvel -- just too big. After my post I went and saw one..And I'd like to avoid going back to Sony, though I'm tempted to.

We all get the GAS. I didn't post on this forum for like a year. But after getting my studio space back up I'm missing my ART lenses and not wanting to go back to DSLR.

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:26 AM

lukeiam
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

jedibrain wrote:
I use the 50mm Sigma Art adapted to an R6. Its fantastic. If you are doing this because you miss the rendering of those lenses and can't practically use them on Nikon, you have a high chance of being happy with EF Art glass on an R body, with a Canon adapter.

The R5 is a really good value now, particularly on the used market. New deals have been as low as $3k USD recently - pretty amazing. May get cheaper in Q1 2024 when the R5II comes out.

But also consider the R6mkII. 24mp, most up to date AF...Show more →

Really helpful. Thank you! Yes, using ART glass on an adapted body is a major requirement...and I find the Z just not as welcome for that because of the mount diameter differential -- it's just weird and not ergonomic to me. The Canon feels/looks way more seamless.

As far as IQ and sensor tech it does seem like I might need to grab an R5 lest I be disappointed...

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:31 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

Canon, Sony and Nikon are all great systems. If you can't get a picture with them, it's not a technology problem.

I think younger photographers gravitate to Sony because they got the jump on mirrorlesss and older to Canon or Nikon because of familiarity.

So it all comes to ergonomics and familiarity.

I really like Canon because I have been with Canon forever and my number 1 criteria is that I can use it by memory with ease. I really like ts17 and ts24 and 24-105 on my adapter for landscape for shift and versatility. I really like my old 200-400 and 600f4 for wildlife. I have not seen anything yet to tempt me (well maybe the upcoming 200-800).

I switched to Sony when Canon was slow to go above 22mpx (went to A7r1, 2) and really struggled with the menus and using canon lens on Sony and winter performance and dust performance.... But now they are likely closer to even. But I am not doing it again. Rebuying lens, duplicates, being frustrated by differences. It cost money and frustration.

That said - canon adapters EF are great. The R5 and R8 are great. Canon keeps pumping out great new lens.

If you can live with 24mpx, no IBIS, get the R8 for 450grams and $1500. If you need 2 card slots R6ii (heavier, bigger batteries, dual slot, IBIS and $2500), and if you need 45mpx get the R5 for $3000. And If you just want to shoot ART EF lens get an older 5dsr. You have to enjoy what you are doing and 5DSR and Art might be your enjoyment at low cost.

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:31 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

RoamingScott wrote:
I've seen your multiple GAS threads on just about every sub forum now

but the question remains...what are you trying to DO by switching? What do you feel you are lacking from a hardware perspective that any particular brand can't give you?

Most GAS like this where there is indecision between all the brands is really a lack of clarity on the problem. Is it your gear? Is it your skills behind the camera or in post? Is it just a lack of vision or creativity? All important things to ask yourself before spending big money on a switch.

lukeiam wrote:
The 50mm is a big issue for me and Nikon. A fast 50. Absolutely. The FTZ is not my jam! So I'm trying to move camps. The 50 1.2 for the Z mount is -- even if a technical marvel -- just too big. After my post I went and saw one..And I'd like to avoid going back to Sony, though I'm tempted to.

We all get the GAS. I didn't post on this forum for like a year. But after getting my studio space back up I'm missing my ART lenses and not wanting to go back to DSLR.

Is using Sony FE glass on Nikon mirrorless via the adapter too much of a kludge? Admittedly I have not researched this in depth, but it appears to receive positive comments from those doing it.

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:35 AM

lukeiam
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

Scott Stoness wrote:
Canon, Sony and Nikon are all great systems. If you can't get a picture with them, it's not a technology problem.

I think younger photographers gravitate to Sony because they got the jump on mirrorlesss and older to Canon or Nikon because of familiarity.

So it all comes to ergonomics and familiarity.

I really like Canon because I have been with Canon forever and my number 1 criteria is that I can use it by memory with ease. I really like ts17 and ts24 and 24-105 on my adapter for landscape for shift and versatility. I really like my old 200-400...Show more →

Appreciate the post...

"If you can't get a picture with them, it's not a technology problem". But it kinda is a tech problem because the Z isn't fleshed out so I'm kinda done waiting around for the system. I want a faster 50.

Once you go mirrorless it's hard to go back because of shooting style...it changes you, how you interact with the subject, etc. So the 5DSR sounds fun, but can't go that way. But an adapter and some EF lenses? Might be the way! Thanks

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:38 AM

lukeiam
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

rscheffler wrote:
Is using Sony FE glass on Nikon mirrorless via the adapter too much of a kludge? Admittedly I have not researched this in depth, but it appears to receive positive comments from those doing it.

If someone like Sigma made an adapter like this, I would do it in an instant! But the megadap isn't fully reliable to me, and I had one for a bit.

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:39 AM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

Assuming the Sigma Art you're referring to is the 1.4? If so, a good rundown between the Z and it.

https://petapixel.com/2021/03/11/nikon-50mm-f-1-2-s-review-a-battle-against-the-sigma-50mm-f-1-4-art/

Yes, the Z is long, but I've not heard complaints about it being front heavy like the ARTs tend to be. That's one the best things so far about the Z lens design is how well even large one balance near the mount.

Have you tried the Nikon 50/1.2 yet or are you just put off by images of it's girth?

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:44 AM

steamtrain
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

If you really compare fast 50mm options for full frame camera mounts, you might come to the conclusion the narrow FE mount is just fine.

If you want a bigger mount though (I fail to see why, but it's about your preferences here) there's no problem with adapting EF Sigma Art lenses to RF cameras. A small camera with a stellar sensor is the R8.

I think it's really mind boggling why you want to pair a small camera to adapted EF Art lenses, but at least the R8 offers the best 24Mp sensor at a very low price, so you can't go wrong in that regard.

If you want the best IQ on a budget as well in your lenses and ergonomics are awkward anyway you might consider the 40mm Art and/or 85mm Art over the 50mm Art. Especially the 40mm calls for a higher resolution sensor though.

Note: the EF 50mm Art is still a very good lens, but it's getting relatively outdated with the latest updates and competitors for other mounts. Around f/2.0 the differences are non existent, but wide open it's not as good as recent f/1.4 and f/1.2 options.

Oct 31, 2023 at 10:46 AM

lukeiam
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

steamtrain wrote:
If you really compare fast 50mm options for full frame camera mounts, you might come to the conclusion the narrow FE mount is just fine.

If you want a bigger mount though (I fail to see why, but it's about your preferences here) there's no problem with adapting EF Sigma Art lenses to RF cameras. A small camera with a stellar sensor is the R8.

I think it's really mind boggling why you want to pair a small camera to adapted EF Art lenses, but at least the R8 offers the best 24Mp sensor at a very low price, so...Show more →

You might be right! And adapting these might not be the path forward (one reason I'm writing this).

I don't think the R5 wouldn't balance well with an adapted ART, though, do you? They seem pretty comfortable.

Ultimately, it may be Sony calling me back...I just really would love it if Nikon opened their mount up.

Oct 31, 2023 at 11:00 AM

artsupreme
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

lukeiam wrote:
You might be right! And adapting these might not be the path forward (one reason I'm writing this).

I don't think the R5 wouldn't balance well with an adapted ART, though, do you? They seem pretty comfortable.

Ultimately, it may be Sony calling me back...I just really would love it if Nikon opened their mount up.

The ART lenses adapt perfectly to the R5 and a lightly used R5 for $2500 is really hard to beat.

Oct 31, 2023 at 11:19 AM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

lukeiam wrote:
I’ve cycled through a few brands and am currently on the Nikon Z. But I started with Canon…And there’s some gas afoot here — no doubt — but I do paid work a lot and have a rented studio space, so I’m not just a bored hobbyist.

But once I got over the Dxo nonsense I’ve been curious of the Canon bodies…I’m a maximalist, so my mind was always like “sensor tech!!” and the Nikon/Sony sensors (Sony’s) just seemed better…but that’s not the whole story, especially for portraiture, which I do…It’s not a wonder that like 80% of the editorial...Show more →

I'm not interested in swapping color for a bit more DR (which I don't use much, anyway,) and maybe a bit better high ISO. Several years ago you'd think DR is the only thing that matters in photography. I usually just go out in good light vs trying to pick up some ridiculous amount of shadows and I can't use ISO 100 all the time to get the max DR, anyway

And that's on the older bodies, I don't think the R5 etc newer have any issues on DR. I'm still DSLR, no current plans to switch , but RP and R probably aren't bad, unless you do a lot of action.

The rf 50/1.2 is native, if it's in your budget

Oct 31, 2023 at 11:27 AM

steamtrain
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

lukeiam wrote:
You might be right! And adapting these might not be the path forward (one reason I'm writing this).

I don't think the R5 wouldn't balance well with an adapted ART, though, do you? They seem pretty comfortable.

The Sigma Art lenses are the main reason I have the R5. Especially the 40mm Art and the 105mm Art are stellar performance at a very affordable price. The R5 is the best camera currently available for those lenses, as it has great ergonomics for big lenses, offers 45Mp, and has fast AF. The 40mm and 105mm Art lenses AF faster than the RF 50&85mm f/1.2 L lenses. They also might gather more light across the frame due to less vignetting, despite the f/1.4 aperture vs f/1.2.

I also shoot the A7IV with the 50mm f/1.2 GM and 85mm f/1.4 DN, as Canon doesn't offer great 50mm and 85mm lenses, but the R5 stays. It also allows me to shoot the EF 24-70mm f/2.8 USM L mkII, which is a very good lens at a relatively low price.

lukeiam wrote:
Ultimately, it may be Sony calling me back...I just really would love it if Nikon opened their mount up.
Nikon has an open mount, more than Canon RF. Nikon allows the Tamron 35-150mm f/2.0-2.8. You can't get that one for Canon RF. Canon RF is closed for any third party AF lens. I think Nikon has an adapter for DSLR lenses as well, and there are also Nikon DSLR Sigma Art lenses, although they might not adapt as well as the ones on Canon mirrorless.

Oct 31, 2023 at 12:07 PM

steamtrain
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

lukeiam wrote:
You might be right! And adapting these might not be the path forward (one reason I'm writing this).
I think there's nothing wrong with adapting. As long as the IQ is stellar, the AF is fast and the price is a lot lower it's the path forward for me. The 40mm Art adapted focuses faster than the RF 50mm f/1.2 L. I didn't rent the RF 85mm f/1.2 L, but the AF of that one is said to be slower than the 50mm, so I'm sticking with my 105mm f/1.4 Art.

Oct 31, 2023 at 12:15 PM

steamtrain
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

Oh, one dowside of the R8, it has no full mechanical shutter. That might be a reason to get the R6, R6mkII, R, R5 when you plan to shoot large aperture glass.

Oct 31, 2023 at 12:16 PM

AndereObjektiv
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

The nikon z is a fine system. The sony manufactured sensors did have the upper hand on the canon sensors starting from around the release of the sony α900 / nikon D3 and they currently have a slight advantage even now. However canon has made huge progress with their sensors and their recent ones are quite compititve. The advantage canon has is their colors, which I rate on an æsthetic level as near equal to phase one and hasselblad. nikon, fuji, leica, panasonic, and the rest are not quite as good for colors in my subjective æsthetic preferences.
canon r cameras do seem quite excellent, ergonomically as well as now competitive in dynamic range and shadow recovery for raw files. Plus in my æsthetic opinion, having better colors.
The FTZ adapter is quite excellent. I've taken perhaps the sharpest photo I have ever done with the otus 85 on ftz/z7. You can rent an ART 50 and an FTZ and see.
You might consider a leica m adapter for your nikon z or canon r, preferably a precision one with a helicoid for close focus like the voigtländer vm-z for nikon z. This opens up the wonderful world of fast leica m mount lenses in many focal lengths besides 50mm for your full frame camera, whichever you choose. I will say the voigtländer apo-lanthar vm 50mm F/2 is extraordinary.

Oct 31, 2023 at 12:17 PM

lukeiam
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

steamtrain wrote:
The Sigma Art lenses are the main reason I have the R5. Especially the 40mm Art and the 105mm Art are stellar performance at a very affordable price. The R5 is the best camera currently available for those lenses, as it has great ergonomics for big lenses, offers 45Mp, and has fast AF. The 40mm and 105mm Art lenses AF faster than the RF 50&85mm f/1.2 L lenses. They also might gather more light across the frame due to less vignetting, despite the f/1.4 aperture vs f/1.2.

I also shoot the A7IV with the 50mm f/1.2 GM and 85mm...Show more →

Really interesting. Thanks for chiming in. You find the 40 ART balances well on the R5 with the adapter? I tried it on the Sony once and it was pretty monster...stellar lens, though, and I love the 40mm fov...I've seen entire movies shot at the field of view as it's very natural to the eye, and 55mm lens on a crop MF body is 43mm...very cool.

How do you like the Sony system as it compares to the R5 for colors and usability? I can't deny that the 50 1.2 GM is pretty interesting to me...it's fast and looks like it balances very well on Sony.

EDIT:
Found these images to illustrate my point...Look at the difference between the FTZ and the adapted EF lenses...that must be huge on balance and ergos. For the ART 40mm

Oct 31, 2023 at 02:53 PM

steamtrain
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon mirrorless - but where to start?

lukeiam wrote:
You find the 40 ART balances well on the R5 with the adapter?

That's not what I've said. I said the R5 is the best camera for handling when shooting big lenses.
Handling has nothing to with balance. Balance is just a matter of finding the centre of gravity with your left hand, using the right hand to operate the camera.

Oct 31, 2023 at 03:37 PM

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