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Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

CanadaMark
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

molson wrote:
The Sony A7R V has 36% more resolution than the Z8/Z9, so you can easily make up the 10% difference in focal length with a very small crop in post.

Pixel counts are a square function, so there is only a ~15% linear resolution difference between the two cameras. If you were to crop 540mm to 600mm FOV you would lose ~12MP, dropping down to ~48MP from 60MP. That's still plenty of resolution left over, but it is costing you pretty well the entire resolution advantage of the A7R5 sensor just to match the 180-600's starting point. A lot of people are still cropping that 600mm image further, but the A7R5 happens to have just enough resolution to keep pace with the Z8/Z9 if cropping is the plan. Lower MP cameras would be at more of a disadvantage obviously.

Nov 06, 2023 at 05:24 PM

1bwana1
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

bernardl wrote:
Two things:
- it applies to 2 bodies, not to a single one. For hybrid shooters the Z8 and Z9 having the same exact super high end video capability in camera in different form factors is unique, Sony doesn't offer anything equivalent with the same level of performance. This is coming from first hand experience that, according to past comments of yours, you don't have I believe,

I think we misunderstand each other. I was referring to a content maker who only wanted to shoot one body. Not the number of bodies that Nikon makes. If a creators what two bodies he can do more with the Sony system because of the way Sony has segmented their cameras by use case.

bernardl wrote:
- it goes without saying that Sony has a deep video line up with high price items targeting pure video/cinema applications. It is obvious that Nikon is indeed not competing in this segment. But... except for the very high end at 50,000 US$+ range competing with Ari, the quality of Nikon video is in fact superior.

Cheers,
Bernard

You and I will disagree on this. My view appears to be more aligned with the markets choices in this regard.Sony now makes over 40% of its camera sales to video content creators who pick from their broad line of targeted offerings. Better should always be viewed in the context of use case, not box specs.

Nov 06, 2023 at 05:38 PM

JadedWriter
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

Three different companies trying to speak to each other in computer code can get weird performance wise. Learned that quickly with my Nikon to Fuji experiments. I know it's not apples to oranges, but the inconsistency with that whole thing really put me off adapting other things to Z mount.
bernardl wrote:
It depends on many factors, but overall agreed yes.

Cheers,
Bernard

Nov 06, 2023 at 07:11 PM

bernardl
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

JadedWriter wrote:
Three different companies trying to speak to each other in computer code can get weird performance wise. Learned that quickly with my Nikon to Fuji experiments. I know it's not apples to oranges, but the inconsistency with that whole thing really put me off adapting other things to Z mount.

They work overall extremely well though.

Cheers,
Bernard

Nov 06, 2023 at 07:24 PM

bernardl
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

1bwana1 wrote:
I think we misunderstand each other. I was referring to a content maker who only wanted to shoot one body. Not the number of bodies that Nikon makes. If a creators what two bodies he can do more with the Sony system because of the way Sony has segmented their cameras by use case.

You and I will disagree on this. My view appears to be more aligned with the markets choices in this regard.Sony now makes over 40% of its camera sales to video content creators who pick from their broad line of targeted offerings. Better should always be viewed...Show more →

For hybrid shooters (people doing still and video on location), a Z8/Z9 is more powerful video wise than anything available from Sony, whether considering a single or multiple cameras.

I am not sure why you want to disagree on the second point since we do agree...

Cheers,
Bernard

Nov 06, 2023 at 07:27 PM

1bwana1
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

bernardl wrote:
For hybrid shooters (people doing still and video on location), a Z8/Z9 is more powerful video wise than anything available from Sony, whether considering a single or multiple cameras.

I am not sure why you want to disagree on the second point since we do agree...

Cheers,
Bernard

I agree only if they want to do stills and video on the same camera body, and only in certain use cases. If they are choosing separate video and still cameras for the shoot, and have specific needs, Sony has way more variety and powerful options on both the the video and stills side.

So, in some sets of circumstances we agree, in another we disagree I guess?

It also depends on what is being shot, and for what distribution channel. Does Nikon have anything like these to offer?

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/professional-cameras

Does Nikon have a 61 mpx camera for when super high resolution is needed in stills?

https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/interchangeable-lens-cameras/full-frame/p/ilce7rm5-b

Does Nikon offer a low light centrix video camera like this one?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DP4NKGN/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=bestforphotog-20&th=1

Does Nikon offer a specialty FF ICL Vlogging video camera for when size is the most important thing?

https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/interchangeable-lens-cameras/all-interchangeable-lens-cameras/p/ilczve1-b

Does Nikon have any hybrid cameras that compete in the compact camera stills and video space that offer some of these features.. Just look at the variety of these that Sony offers.

https://electronics.sony.com/imaging/c/compact-cameras?currentPage=1

By the way, my current compact hybrid camera is a Nikon coolpix A900 which lives in my car and has given me years of good service.

I can go on and on but I think the point I am making is pretty clear. Best is all about use cases and customer needs. It is also worth noting that all of these options have one thing in common. Native e-mount lenses.

The Z9/8 are powerful hybrid still/video cameras, we agree. They may be the best choice is some use cases, but certainly not all. That is my point, and it doesn't diminish the Z8/9 cameras in any way. It only changes a very broadly stated best declaration that doesn't factor in tall the real World circumstances.

I don't see that as as controversial in any way.

Nov 06, 2023 at 08:19 PM

bernardl
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

I believe we agree.

Cheers,
Bernard

Nov 06, 2023 at 11:13 PM

1bwana1
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

bernardl wrote:
I believe we agree.
Cheers,
Bernard

Yes we do. I consider that a good thing.

Nov 06, 2023 at 11:32 PM

saaketham
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

Is every thread on the Nikon forum infected with this virus?

Nov 07, 2023 at 11:15 AM

1bwana1
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

What is funny is the hypocrisy being exhibited by the Nikon bully gang members. The very same people who in the Nikon Forum attack Sony people for posting in the Nikon forum, are very active in the Sony forum. They often post things there that if posted here would set the bully gang off into a flurry of personal attacks. In the Sony forum it is very different. No concept of rights to post, and everyone overall treated with respect. There is only one guy spewing vulgarity and personal attacks on people there. he is a leading member of the bully gang here. Discussions tend to focus on the equipment rather than getting personal.

There are some very good examples of this currently on the threads regarding the new A9III, and 300mm 2.8.

It seems to me that this difference is based on confidence, in contrast to insecurities about choices in equipment being made. Nikon now has two versions of a camera that can compete on an even field with any of the others. Time to get over your insecurities.

The reason that many don't post images made by other systems is that they have been scolded in the past that doing so is inappropriate. It may also have something to do with the belief by most that at the current state of the industry, almost all images could be produced in high quality by any of the systems being discussed. The primary difference in systems being form factor, workflow, and nuances in specifications that influence those. So, it makes sense that those are the topics being discussed. Not images.

That may be about to change is some rare side cases with the upcoming release of the World's first FF, ICL, Global Shutter camera. We will see. I am withholding judgement until more information about compromises are known. I will say the potential to change photography is profound. At least on the level of the FF ICL mirrorless introduction (killed DSLR), stacked sensors (the current core of flagship cameras in all lines). The fact that these innovation were also all brought by the same company adds a level of credibility to the Global Sensor potential. We may be getting a first look at our futures.

Nov 10, 2023 at 12:23 PM

dcisive
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

Having owned both Sony AND Nikon's best over the last decade, I don't see why people get this tribalism thing going. They are both excellent image making tools. And in the right hands there is essentially NO difference. However indeed I also don't understand the mentality of a Sony owner hanging out in a Nikon forum trying to stir things up. Any more than a Nikon owner doing the same in a Sony forum. There surely is an intelligence factor (or lack thereof) that inspires such talk. Oh well.

Nov 10, 2023 at 06:01 PM

duncang
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

dcisive wrote:
Having owned both Sony AND Nikon's best over the last decade, I don't see why people get this tribalism thing going. They are both excellent image making tools. And in the right hands there is essentially NO difference. However indeed I also don't understand the mentality of a Sony owner hanging out in a Nikon forum trying to stir things up. Any more than a Nikon owner doing the same in a Sony forum. There surely is an intelligence factor (or lack thereof) that inspires such talk. Oh well.

"In the right hands there is essentially NO difference" seems like the kind of last resort argument you make when you know you can't argue with the facts.

The "right hands" can't fix the autofocus, they're not going to give you 50% more frames at critical moments or eliminate banding or make up for the lack of high frame rate RAW files or a low res EVF.

It's a sad state of affairs when FW updates becomes the must have killer feature - but then I guess that's a key market strategy from Nikon because it keeps the hope alive!

Nov 10, 2023 at 08:41 PM

dcisive
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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

duncang wrote:
"In the right hands there is essentially NO difference" seems like the kind of last resort argument you make when you know you can't argue with the facts.

The "right hands" can't fix the autofocus, they're not going to give you 50% more frames at critical moments or eliminate banding or make up for the lack of high frame rate RAW files or a low res EVF.

It's a sad state of affairs when FW updates becomes the must have killer feature - but then I guess that's a key market strategy from Nikon because it keeps the hope alive!

Man what in the world have you been smoking? Delusional doesn't cover it........

Nov 10, 2023 at 10:46 PM

NikonClio64
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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

The recent overheating of the www reveals an overhead of FUD
https://www.bythom.com/newsviews/whats-really-happening-with.html

Nikonians, in contrast, can live on happily with all their lens choices - and high end cameras. Moreover, one enjoys the almost untapped advantages of the Z Mount as the Universal Recipient for adapted lenses:

With reference to heated tensions about high end choices for Sports and Wildlife... the choice of Z-fit Telephotos is unmatched

4 zooms: 70-180 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8S, 100-400 S, 180-600

and 5 primes: 400 f4.5S, 400 f2.8S TC, 600 f4S TC, 600 f6.3S, 800 f6.3S

It's over 20 including the 200 f2G, 300 f2.8G and current E aperture-type F-mounts:

4 Zooms: 70-200 f2.8, 120-300 f2.8, 180-400 f4 TC, 200-500 f5.6E

6 Primes: 300 PF, 500 PF, 400 f2.8, 500 f4, 600 f4, 800 f5.6

So many choices! This is even before reaching for a Teleconverter, but talking of which Nikon has an impressive expertise in bespoke designs. It's a decade ago that Nikon pioneered the TC125, which is precision tuned in paired copies of the 800 f5.6E, and integrated in the 180-400 f4E TC14, 400 f2.8S TC14 and 600 f4S TC14

Edited on Nov 11, 2023 at 07:07 AM · View previous versions

Nov 11, 2023 at 04:59 AM

NikonClio64
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

There is also the most important advantage of Nikon's long standing investment in the CFExpress B storage standard. The CFExpress A cards are too small, and design-constrained, being better suited to smartphones and tablets

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/buying-guides/the-best-cfexpress-cards

https://www.dpreview.com/news/9461454835/cfexpress-is-set-to-get-even-faster-with-the-new-cfexpress-4-0-standard

Nov 11, 2023 at 05:02 AM

saaketham
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

As the number 1 troll on FM mentioned a few posts above, the Sony forum is indeed great .. for 2 reasons
1 - there are some incredible photographers active there
2 - no Nikon or Canon trolls permanently camped there, causing trouble

Nov 11, 2023 at 06:05 AM

cvrle59
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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

NikonClio64 wrote:
The recent overheating of the www carries its overhead of FUD
https://www.bythom.com/newsviews/whats-really-happening-with.html

Nikonians can live on happily with all their lens choices - and high end cameras. And one enjoys the almost untapped advantages of the Z Mount as the Universal Recipient for adapted lenses:

With reference to high end choices for Sports and Wildlife... the choice of Z Telephotos is unmatched

4 zooms: 70-180 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8S, 100-400 S, 180-600

and 5 primes: 400 f4.5S, 400 f2.8S TC, 600 f4S TC, 600 f6.3S, 800 f6.3S

It's 19 including the 300 f2.8G and current E aperture-type F-mounts:

4 Zooms: 70-200 f2.8, 120-300 f2.8, 180-400 f4 TC,...Show more →

If someone can find better numbers, I would appreciate it, I mean some sell ratios.
Until then, I find this very interesting, number of reviews at two very reputable sites.

BH
Z9 - 272
Z8 - 115
A1 - 174
A9II - 56

Adorama
Z9 - 277
Z8 - 222
A1 - 54
A9II - 82

I know this is not reliable data, but the ratio here between Z9 and A1 is significant, especially considering release dates for those cameras, and it may say something about popularity.
I won't accept theory, Z9 buyers are so crazy to leave a review, vs A1 buyers, who just don't care about it.
These numbers may connect to TH's story somehow.
Z9 and Z8 with Nikon's aggressive pricing, along with variety of fantastic telephoto lenses, made A1 and A9II less attractive than prior to these Nikon releases.
GS, great, technology moves forward, but $10k (Can) for a 24mp camera, give me a break.
Only those who really need those advanced features, or those who have full pockets of cash, and want to ride on cutting edge, will buy it.
When that technology will get available to reasonable priced models, not so soon, I would think.

Nov 11, 2023 at 06:47 AM

akul
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

Nov 11, 2023 at 07:28 AM

1bwana1
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

cvrle59 wrote:
If someone can find better numbers, I would appreciate it, I mean some sell ratios.
Until then, I find this very interesting, number of reviews at two very reputable sites.

BH
Z9 - 272
Z8 - 115
A1 - 174
A9II - 56

Adorama
Z9 - 277
Z8 - 222
A1 - 54
A9II - 82

I know this is not reliable data, but the ratio here between Z9 and A1 is significant, especially considering release dates for those cameras, and it may say something about popularity.
I won't accept theory, Z9 buyers are so crazy to leave a review, vs A1 buyers, who just don't care about it.
These numbers may connect to...Show more →

If you sincerely want real market share data you can look straight to Nikon's own most recent financial statement. There Nikon claims a market share of approximately 12%. About the same as it was prior to the release of the Z9/8 cameras.

Of course this doesn't drill down into internal model sales numbers. It could be that Z9/8 sales are making up for an offsetting fall in other model sales. Anecdotaly it looks to me that the Z8/9 cameras are selling very well. However, the market segment that the flagship products sell in is not generally large enough to move total market share numbers.

Nikon's camera sales and camera division profits are doing well. Nikon is tracking right along with the upswing the industry at large is experiencing. Overall profits are way down in the latest Quarter due to difficulty in other business units and costs associated with M&A.

Edited on Nov 11, 2023 at 09:28 AM · View previous versions

Nov 11, 2023 at 09:04 AM

1bwana1
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · Anybody switched from Sony to Nikon?

saaketham wrote:
As the number 1 troll on FM mentioned a few posts above, the Sony forum is indeed great .. for 2 reasons
1 - there are some incredible photographers active there
2 - no Nikon or Canon trolls permanently camped there, causing trouble

This is rich coming from a true troll who has at various times in writing here on FM bragged about how he enjoys instigating and watching forum "fights". While the person he is responding to was pointing out that such behavior is unnecessary. The exact hypocrisy I was pointing out.

You may also be entertained by his enjoyment of Bondage sexual content while claiming those objecting to such content were the real secret perverts.

The definition of disrespectful behavior and hypocrisy in a condensed package.

Edited on Nov 11, 2023 at 09:29 AM · View previous versions

Nov 11, 2023 at 09:13 AM

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