Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       5       6       end
  

Official: Leica M11-P announced

  
 
1bwana1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


I am doing a Photowalk with Leica this afternoon. Leica's new area Rep brought down a collection of lenses and cameras for people to try out free on the walk. 40 people have signed up so there is a lot of interest out there. She brought a good number of SL cameras. But she only has only one Q3, and one M11 and one M11-M (no m11-P). She has a very limited number of M lenses. Her dilemma is that Leica has a good number of all things SL. But, the Q3, and almost all things M are backordered with substantial wait lists. They are difficult for even here to get. So, I am bringing both my M10-P, my M11, and my collection of lenses to help out and share.

I view the Q3 as a variation of an M already. It is certainly closer to an M than an SL(x) in the way it looks and handles. I would think that Leica would be much more likely to Make a Q variant with interchangeable lenses than an M variant with AF. I do see a hybrid RF/EVF viewfinder for the M as an almost inevitable variant in the not too distant future.



Oct 29, 2023 at 10:29 AM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


RustyBug wrote:
If you put AF in an M ... ummm, then it isn't an M. While the EVF variant might infuse some crossover from those folks using an SL with the adapted M glass, it in no way can replace the AF functionality of an SL or Q. At that point, it is a Full Frame CL, which is an SL.

In order for their to be AF on an M ... with an actual M mount ... the distance to the focal plane would have to be correct for the M lenses, and its associated placement of the micro lenses. In
...Show more

The idea of potential AF in an "EVF M" comes from the merge and availability of AF in the Q-system. There are many who are interested in an interchangeable lens system within the Q. This is pretty much also an "EVF M" just considering the body size.

Using Sony E-mount in parallel to the M-system, I second the preference for a tilt screen. For me it is less important than EVF though. If tilt screen, then also please with tilt option in portrait direction!



Oct 29, 2023 at 10:43 AM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


1bwana1 wrote:
I am doing a Photowalk with Leica this afternoon. Leica's new area Rep brought down a collection of lenses and cameras for people to try out free on the walk. 40 people have signed up so there is a lot of interest out there. She brought a good number of SL cameras. But she only has only one Q3, and one M11 and one M11-M (no m11-P). She has a very limited number of M lenses. Her dilemma is that Leica has a good number of all things SL. But, the Q3, and almost all things M are backordered with
...Show more

I believe there is another strategy behind than being limited....Leica is soooo desperate and pushy to make the SL and L-mount system work even recognizing lack of demand for it. Customers obviously go the other direction and preference clearly is on M- and Q-mount system. It is one example where industry does not follow customer preference.

I fully agree with the second paragraph though.



Oct 29, 2023 at 10:49 AM
1bwana1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


retrofocus wrote:
I believe there is another strategy behind than being limited....Leica is soooo desperate and pushy to make the SL and L-mount system work even recognizing lack of demand for it. Customers obviously go the other direction and preference clearly is on M- and Q-mount system. It is one example where industry does not follow customer preference.

I fully agree with the second paragraph though.


I think the limited supply in Q and M is real. You can probably buy an M11 or an M11-M right away if you shop around. But you will end up on a waitlist for a Q3, and an even longer list for many of the M lenses. The M11-P is still not available at all. Leica is having its biggest sales year in history by a good sized margin. They are absolutely production constrained in M and Q. They do say that although M is still their leading product line, that they are happy with SL sales. Personally, I can't see the value so much in the SL line. It's not a money thing. But as a size/weight to performance value proposition it just doesn't stand up to the competition in my opinion. Both the bodies, and the lenses are huge, even bigger than the Nikon line (which I already reject due to size/weight), and much lower in the kind of performance that I want in an AF camera system.




Oct 29, 2023 at 11:14 AM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


1bwana1 wrote:
I think the limited supply in Q and M is real. You can probably buy an M11 or an M11-M right away if you shop around. But you will end up on a waitlist for a Q3, and an even longer list for many of the M lenses. The M11-P is still not available at all. Leica is having its biggest sales year in history by a good sized margin. They are absolutely production constrained in M and Q. They do say that although M is still their leading product line, that they are happy with SL sales. Personally, I
...Show more

Fully agree about the sales perspective here and the higher demand for M- and Q-cameras. I referred above to the sales pitch of the photo walk - I have a hard time believing that a camera brand representative has not enough bodies to hand from such successful M- and Q-series but instead offers many SL-bodies where much less are interested to try and to buy. Sounds to me like "please go give the SL a try, maybe we can convince you....".

The SL system is not bad but came too late compared to what other brands offered, didn't take into account what Leica users predominantly want: a smaller body and not DSLR-like lens sizes. Leica tried to dive into the video market with the SL, pushed it so hard that they even removed video from the M-series (please, nobody tell me now it was removed because the cameras couldn't handle it, or because some wanted "simplicity"!). IMO Leica should call it a day with the SL series, provide some SL lens series to support Panasonic with L-mount cameras, but otherwise move on with an "EVF M" camera which uses M-lenses.



Oct 29, 2023 at 11:24 AM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


1bwana1 wrote:
I would think that Leica would be much more likely to Make a Q variant with interchangeable lenses than an M variant with AF.


This ^.

Q-M

All the Q, with an M mount (manual focus only), and the M sensor / microlens arrangement.

Alternatively, a Q with ILC AF lenses. What would be totally unique would be if they made the interchangeable lenses with the leaf shutter (same as currently exists in the Q) and OIS. Leaf shutters in a FF format would be a game changer for those who use flash (gotta think outside the M user base, to the SoCaNikon market). No more HSS limitations, etc. By keeping the OIS in the lens, rather than the body, fitting IBIS into the body wouldn't be an issue. And, the leaf shutter is less vibration than a focal plane shutter. If they did put IBIS in (along with leaf / oil), that would be even more of a boon for the range of shutter speeds (high to low).

It could be a limited lens lineup of AF leaf shutters, (e.g. one wide, one normal, one portrait). This would be one heck of a setup, that would sit square between SoCaNikon and MF. Scaled down X2D, with Leica glass (vs. Hassy glass) and even more portability, essentially.

The uniqueness of the M system, retains its uniqueness.
The uniqueness of a FF leaf system, expands its uniqueness.

And the Q-M variant being the hybrid between the two.

That would be a roadmap that I could dig.



Oct 29, 2023 at 12:32 PM
Stephen G
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


I have tried the SL system twice, and not stuck with it. It doesn't feel to me like it has enough "Leica DNA".

I have to say in mirrorless the Sigma FP body line is pretty interesting. There is almost more Leica DNA there than with the SL line.
It would be appealing to see Leica take some inspiration from Leica M / Sigma FP / Sony a7c lines and make an SLc body.

My problem with SL remains the same that it's always been - it is premium priced while generally being the second best option for any given use case. The AF is not great. The video is not great.
The specs are too close to sibling Panasonic models with a $2k premium.

Meanwhile Sony will sell you a body optimized for whatever use case you want - video optimized, low light specialist, max resolution, fast autofocus/shutter, compact size, etc.

Lovely lenses, though now they are blessing Sigma lenses you can mount on a Sony as Leica for 2x the price.. so why not put them on the superior Sony body for your use case and save money?

To be fair I did the same two tours of disappointed ownership with Sony FE system as well.



Oct 29, 2023 at 12:37 PM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


Stephen G wrote:
It doesn't feel to me like it has enough "Leica DNA".

Lovely lenses, though now they are blessing Sigma lenses you can mount on a Sony as Leica for 2x the price.. so why not put them on the superior Sony body for your use case and save money?.


You're still NOT getting the Leica optical DNA.

Folks want to focus on the body, but (imo), the reason for owning a Leica that makes a Leica, Leica ... is the optical formulation in ethos approach to both optics and photographic subjects.

Even, those folks who adapt Leica glass on other sensors are NOT getting the fullness of the optical properties that decades of optical design by Leica's ethos have brought to us. Mixing Leica lenses with the WRONG sensor / microlenses, diminishes the fullness of the Leica DNA that is designed into the optical projection that proceeds through the lens, microlens, cover glass / bfa (or not for mono), etc.

The extreme precision of optics doesn't get improved by jacking around with the wrong angles of incidence / refraction / reflection. The most Leica DNA you'll ever get is Leica M on Leica M, Leica SL on Leica SL, Leica Q on Leica Q, etc.

If the issue is about trying to figure out ways to be cost efficient as a primary goal, then the goal of retaining the most Leica DNA is abandoned, sacrificed, reduced, compromised, retarded and/or otherwise deteriorated to varying degree.


If Leica DNA is what one desires, Sony and Sigma are not the answer to achieving that (imo). It is the answer to getting Sony / Sigma DNA, though.

Which, BTW ... I wrote sometime back that I thought some of Sigma (L Alliance) was revealing hints of taking a page from Leica. But, having had my stint with some of Sigma's better glass, it still isn't Leica DNA.

That's like wanting a Stradivarius and buying any other violin. It's still not a Strad. Even if you can play the same songs with it ... it doesn't have the same sound. Some folks don't notice the difference ... others can't escape it.

Nikon, Canon, Hassy, Zeiss, Leica, Sigma, Oly, Mamiya, etc. ... they all have their own DNA. I've shot and adapted all of them over the years. Plenty of good glass and I have some fav's. But, (imo) only Leica has Leica DNA.


Quid Pro Quo ... $$$ vs. Leica DNA.









Edited on Oct 29, 2023 at 01:16 PM · View previous versions



Oct 29, 2023 at 12:48 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


retrofocus wrote:
The idea of potential AF in an "EVF M" comes from the merge and availability of AF in the Q-system. There are many who are interested in an interchangeable lens system within the Q. This is pretty much also an "EVF M" just considering the body size.

Using Sony E-mount in parallel to the M-system, I second the preference for a tilt screen. For me it is less important than EVF though. If tilt screen, then also please with tilt option in portrait direction!


---------------------------------------------

RustyBug wrote:
This ^.

Q-M

All the Q, with an M mount (manual focus only), and the M sensor / microlens arrangement.

Alternatively, a Q with ILC AF lenses. What would be totally unique would be if they made the interchangeable lenses with the leaf shutter (same as currently exists in the Q) and OIS. Leaf shutters in a FF format would be a game changer for those who use flash (gotta think outside the M user base, to the SoCaNikon market). No more HSS limitations, etc. By keeping the OIS in the lens, rather than the body, fitting IBIS into the body wouldn't be
...Show more

To me it wouldn't make much sense to have an interchangeable lens Q and an M with an EVF be the same camera. You wouldn't want an interchangeable lens Q to be forced to use the very deep M mount flange distance. There would be no room for IBIS unless you made it as thick as a DSLR M-mount flange distance is too deep.

More than that, I don't think Leica could/would/should support yet a third lens mount when they can barely design and release new options for the existing L mount. Better for Leica to just make a very small L-mount camera with a left-side EVF (full frame CL).

It will either be an M with an EVF or small L camera to fill the niche in question. An interchangeable lens Q with native M-mount will never happen.



Oct 29, 2023 at 01:05 PM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


highdesertmesa wrote:
---------------------------------------------

To me it wouldn't make much sense to have an interchangeable lens Q and an M with an EVF be the same camera. You wouldn't want to limit an interchangeable lens Q to be forced to use the very deep M mount flange distance.

More than that, I don't think Leica could/would/should support yet a third lens mount when they can barely design and release new options for the existing L mount. Better for Leica to just make a very small L-mount camera with a left-side EVF (full frame CL).

It will either be an M with an EVF or small L
...Show more

Name it whatever, the hypothetical "EVF M" will use existing M11 and Q technology. I honestly don't care if it is a more like Q-based body with interchangeable lens mount or a M-mount body with EVF. I don't think the CL will be revived in design for full-frame to fit this purpose.



Oct 29, 2023 at 01:19 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


highdesertmesa wrote:
Better for Leica to just make a very small L-mount camera with a left-side EVF (full frame CL).


As a former owner of the CL, shooting M lenses on it (via Leica adapter) ... I'd agree that this is the most direct path to EVF + M lenses (with proper M micro lenses of course). Just skip any needs for AF.

Scale up the CL ... M mount / micro lenses. No AF, tilt LCD.





Oct 29, 2023 at 01:21 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


retrofocus wrote:
Name it whatever, the hypothetical "EVF M" will use existing M11 and Q technology. I honestly don't care if it is a more like Q-based body with interchangeable lens mount or a M-mount body with EVF. I don't think the CL will be revived in design for full-frame to fit this purpose.


What technology does the Q3 use that is missing from the M11 other than the EVF?

External design is different from talking about the mount. If you just want an M12-EVF camera to have the external design and way of functioning from the Q3, then that makes sense.

Edited on Oct 29, 2023 at 01:25 PM · View previous versions



Oct 29, 2023 at 01:25 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


RustyBug wrote:
This ^.

Q-M

All the Q, with an M mount (manual focus only), and the M sensor / microlens arrangement.

Alternatively, a Q with ILC AF lenses. What would be totally unique would be if they made the interchangeable lenses with the leaf shutter (same as currently exists in the Q) and OIS. Leaf shutters in a 35mm format would be a game changer for those who use flash. No more HSS limitations, etc. By keeping the OIS in the lens, rather than the body, fitting IBIS into the body wouldn't be an issue. And, the leaf shutter is less vibration than a
...Show more

I agree, but I don't believe Leica is in a rush to implement it because they already have two very successful cameras in the M and Q series cameras.
That being said, how much more can Leica improve after the M11? While they can introduce more technological features, we already have a mature rangefinder camera. I think it's more likely that Leica introduces a brand new camera line featuring the M-mount with EVF. It wouldn't be an M or Q, but something entirely new. Perhaps it will draw more inspiration from the Q's aesthetics.

When it comes to a potential M12 in the future, Leica was not able to improve the rangefinder from the M10 to the M11. So, aside from electronics, it looks like the camera has matured mechanically and optically. I do wish there is still room of a built-in diopter and even higher mechanical reliability though. Changes could also come to the sensor side and Leica may incorporate a stack sensor, eliminating the need for a mechanical shutter while adding ibis. This could be the future of the M series, something that many would welcome, although there might be some who wouldn't embrace it. Beyond these possible enhancements, I don't think there will be a dramatic change to the existing lines and it's more likely Leica will introduce a new manual focus camera line with a M-mount and a built-in EVF. It would be distinctive from the SL line which has AF and offer different features compared to the M and Q lines.



Oct 29, 2023 at 01:25 PM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


highdesertmesa wrote:
What technology does the Q3 use that is missing from the M11 other than the EVF?

External design is different from talking about the mount. If you just want an M12-EVF camera to have the external design and way of functioning from the Q3, then that makes sense.


Yes, I referred to have a M-body design for example with Q3 functionality and software inside. In case it is a brand new line and design more looking at the Q-series, I have some slight hope that such "EVF M" can potentially include IBIS, too which the M series continues to lack so far. But I am quite certain that the first generation of an "EVF M" line is for Leica a test how customers would buy into, and therefore IBIS likely only comes in the second or even third generation of such camera.



Oct 29, 2023 at 01:40 PM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree, but I don't believe Leica is in a rush to implement it because they already have two very successful cameras in the M and Q series cameras.
That being said, how much more can Leica improve after the M11? While they can introduce more technological features, we already have a mature rangefinder camera. I think it's more likely that Leica introduces a brand new camera line featuring the M-mount with EVF. It wouldn't be an M or Q, but something entirely new. Perhaps it will draw more inspiration from the Q's aesthetics.

When it comes to a potential
...Show more

As I mentioned much earlier, IMO the only way with such "EVF M" camera to avoid in-house competition is by slopping AF and maybe even video and having the camera like the M-series only used with manual rangefinder lenses. Biggest risk for Leica is actually not competition with the SL but more so with the Q-series. I wonder who would still buy into a $4K fixed lens EVF-based camera when there is another option for a bit higher (hopefully not too high again!) price tag which allows using interchangeable lenses? People who only shoot mostly at 28 mm FL and always use AF? They could easily use any kind of other Sony etc single lens EVF-based camera, too (assuming it is not just because of the Leica name). Now people use it mostly because there is no other EVF alternative regarding form size and lens quality with Leica. Certainly the Q-series will be most significantly impacted by such "EVF M" release, prices might drop over night > 30%. IMO the most likely reason why Leica has not moved forward yet or disclosed anything further of releasing such "EVF M".



Oct 29, 2023 at 01:50 PM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


Fred Miranda wrote:
That being said, how much more can Leica improve after the M11?


I asked of that a few weeks back ... even, skipping over the M12 and looking forward to the M13, M14, M15.

That's not to suggest that the M11 is a "perfect" camera, but in the maturation of the Digital M era, the curve forward is very likely to flatten extensively, regarding the baseline essence of the camera.

I would like to see a tilt LCD, but even more than that ... I'd really like to see an improved RF experience. I say that, not as some incremental improvement, but some (optical) advancement that is a quantum leap in the RF patch experience. I think they underestimate how much greater of an experience this could be. It may be time for an update / redesign to the optical path(s) associated with the RF. It strikes me that this is an overlooked area that could be time for a REAL IMPROVEMENT (optically).

Couple that with a BUILT IN RF DIOPTER adjustment. I have personally had multiple pairs of glasses scripted differently to try and find an ideal combination, but since the optometry industry makes rather large increments, it isn't possible to get as refined as what could be achieved with a built in diopter of Leica (ummm, they are an elite optics company) refinement.

Imo, PART of the quest for the EVF from folks isn't the "process" of the RF, but QUALITY of the RF experience that some struggle with. Root cause is that the RF experience is insufficient for some folks. Improve that in a quantum leap, and the EVF discussion suddenly quiets down.

I'd much prefer a better optical RF experience ... (battery life / heat / lag / etc. of an EVF). But, as the eyesight doesn't exactly get "better with age", there may come a time for folks that the hindrance of an RF is too much for them to enjoy using. I think it is time for them to take a HARD LOOK at how to make the RF experience a quantum improvement.

Imo, more folks would benefit from an improved RF, than bumping the M12 / 13 / 14 / 15 sensor to 100, 150, 200 MP.



Oct 29, 2023 at 02:01 PM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


RustyBug wrote:
I asked of that a few weeks back ... even, skipping over the M12 and looking forward to the M13, M14, M15.

That's not to suggest that the M11 is a "perfect" camera, but in the maturation of the Digital M era, the curve forward is very likely to flatten extensively, regarding the baseline essence of the camera.

I would like to see a tilt LCD, but even more than that ... I'd really like to see an improved RF experience. I say that, not as some incremental improvement, but some (optical) advancement that is a quantum leap in the RF patch
...Show more

I don't think there will be many more M-based improvements available in the future other than some software based ones or ergonomic ones like tilt screen. Maybe with some very low hope IBIS - but I doubt it because this will be much more likely be seen in a second/third generation "EVF M". Leica improved some M lenses with close focus - which is not practical for the std M rangefinder with MFD of 0.7 meters (yes, you can use them currently with LiveView or external EVF, but not the most practical). IMO reason for this is to enable these M lenses to be primarily used on a future "EVF M" camera instead.

I disagree that any "quality of RF experience" will change this. I am using currently OVF (rangefinder) and EVF cameras in parallel, and clearly see pros and cons in different photo situations. I believe this is where most M users find themselves. I doubt that many would slop an existing rangefinder for such "EVF M" but would rather ADD an "EVF M" to an existing line. And there will be many new customers for Leica who prefer a mix of traditional manual focus lens experience with modern digital technology (EVF) plus full-frame in a more compact package.



Oct 29, 2023 at 02:15 PM
flash
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


retrofocus wrote:
The SL system is not bad but came too late compared to what other brands offered, didn't take into account what Leica users predominantly want: a smaller body and not DSLR-like lens sizes. Leica tried to dive into the video market with the SL, pushed it so hard that they even removed video from the M-series (please, nobody tell me now it was removed because the cameras couldn't handle it, or because some wanted "simplicity"!). IMO Leica should call it a day with the SL series, provide some SL lens series to support Panasonic with L-mount cameras, but otherwise move
...Show more

The SL (601) was released in Aug 2015, which is about the same time as the Sony A7II. Canon and Nikon were still YEARS away from their first mirrorless release. You had exactly two other bodies to choose from in the 24x36mm space in mirrorless, both from Sony.

The A7II and A7RII had no weather sealing to speak of, a 2.3MP EVF, pathetic tiny batteries, no touch screens, no optional vertical grips available, and poor handling. What they had was that they were tiny. And that worked against the SL because they went all out on build quality thinking pros would still want large solid and heavy bodies and lenses like the EOS 1DX.

The SL and SL2 were both actually early to the party and both had quite a few firsts in the mirrorless space.

Gordon



Oct 29, 2023 at 02:16 PM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


retrofocus wrote:
I don't think there will be many more M-based improvements available in the future other than some software based ones or ergonomic ones like tilt screen. Maybe with some very low hope IBIS - but I doubt it because this will be much more likely be seen in a second/third generation "EVF M". Leica improved some M lenses with close focus - which is not practical for the std M rangefinder with MFD of 0.7 meters (yes, you can use them currently with LiveView or external EVF, but not the most practical). IMO reason for this is to enable these
...Show more

The question was about improvements in next generations. I think that since the basic essence of the M is toward the fundamentals of the process to be simplified, etc. ... I think the RF has been highly overlooked as the growth curve on other things has progressed. So ... as those other things flatten in their progression of growth ... time to ratchet up the curve on the overlooked (i.e. not much improvement given) RF as something that could be improved.

EVF or not ... I think the RF could be made a significantly better RF experience.



Oct 29, 2023 at 02:22 PM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Official: Leica M11-P announced


flash wrote:
The SL (601) was released in Aug 2015, which is about the same time as the Sony A7II. Canon and Nikon were still YEARS away from their first mirrorless release. You had exactly two other bodies to choose from in the 24x36mm space in mirrorless, both from Sony.

The A7II and A7RII had no weather sealing to speak of, a 2.3MP EVF, pathetic tiny batteries, no touch screens, no optional vertical grips available, and poor handling. What they had was that they were tiny. And that worked against the SL because they went all out on build quality thinking pros would
...Show more

Didn't help that Leica SL was also in a very different price range compared to Sony, not even mentioning the quality of the Sony sensor. Sony surprised everyone with the first gen A7 series cameras in 2013/2014. I bought my A7R (which I still use and like!) in 2014 and never even once considered the SL at the time - it did not have any practical advantages for me. Yes, I agree that the SL series was earlier than other big brands like Canon and Nikon in the mirrorless space, but it did not help Leica. IMO Leica made a similar decision as in the past with the R-series to compete with other successful SLR brands at the time - which also didn't work out. Leica would have been a leader if instead they tried to incorporate EVF into an M-series body without rangefinder, and releasing it in parallel to existing digital M-series cameras.



Oct 29, 2023 at 02:29 PM
1       2      
3
       4       5       6       end






FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2      
3
       4       5       6       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.