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Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve

  
 
BastianK
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


RustyBug wrote:
I would like to see Fred's mention of the Leica 50/1.4 Lux included (as a reference of sorts) with the faster lenses to see how things change with the challenges of producing the faster glass.

I know that some people see the Leica 50mm 1.4 Asph as some kind of reference, but after having reviewed it, I have to disagree here.
Off center sharpness at f/1.4 and flare resistance are simply lacking too much for that.
I would never pick it over one of the two Voigtländers included in the comparison, heck,
I would hardly pick it over the Voigtländer VM 50mm 1.5 MK II - regardless of price.
I do think I saw some comparisons here according to which the updated 2023 version of the Leica does in fact show some improvements with regards to off center sharpness and flare resistance, but I cannot quantify them at this point.

If I had access to the older Leicas (50mm 1.0 and 50mm 1.2) I would have included them.
But to be honest here, from everything I have seen so far they are only interesting to those that are looking for some special/obscure rendering.
And to be even more honest here: the latest Leica 50mm 0.95 was already so lackluster, I don't expect anything amazing from the older ones.

I really like my old 90mm 2.0 pre Asph for its rendering, but all the "highly regarded" later, modern Leica lenses I tried (35mm 1.4 FLE, 50mm 1.4 Asph, 50mm 0.95, 16-18-21mm 4.0) have been more of a disappointment.

PS: I also really dislike those aperture rings that turn past the mark on one end.
This is maybe somewhat acceptable in the Mr. Ding lens for 400 bucks, but not in a premium Leica lens for several thousands of dollars.
I have no idea why the buyers are willing to accept such sloppy engineering work.



Oct 26, 2023 at 01:29 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


BastianK wrote:
I really like my old 90mm 2.0 pre Asph for its rendering, but all the "highly regarded" later, modern Leica lenses I tried (35mm 1.4 FLE, 50mm 1.4 Asph, 50mm 0.95, 16-18-21mm 4.0) have been more of a disappointment.


Might depend on the use context of the lenses. For M users, until quite recently, there weren't better options in respect to technical performance. Looking at the M system now and yes, one can argue that many of Leica's lenses are outdated. But as you're aware, in Leica-land, 'logical' technically driven reasoning is often subordinate to various subjective factors.

I have known about the 50 Lux ASPH's flaws since I got it in 2011. On paper, it's a design that is no longer 'modern' with a fair number of performance compromises.

I really dislike its off-axis drop in sharpness at wider apertures in the mid zone area. Lackluster veiling flare resistance in certain situations has also been a frustration (shared with a lot of Leica lenses I own), as well as the ninja-star aperture shape through the middle of the range (addressed by the current version).

But for some strange reason, I still have it and it's still my go-to 50. Why? Good question. For me, its strengths for the way I use it outweigh the weaknesses that I can usually work around. Some flaws, such as flare, can sometimes be used for creative effect.

I could now replace it with the technically superior, similarly sized, though slower, VM 50/2 APO. Or as your comparison revealed, the VM 50/1.2. Many times I was on the verge of doing so, but held off. The APO might be too perfect and I actually like some of the Lux's imperfections. The 50/1.2 is larger than I'd like for use on an M. Yeah, I should try the VM 50/1.5 Nokton ASPH II... Or I can just continue to accept the 50 Lux ASPH for what it is and carry on with it.




Oct 26, 2023 at 05:14 AM
BastianK
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


rscheffler wrote:
The 50/1.2 is larger than I'd like for use on an M.

This makes me wonder a bit, did you actually compare the VM 50mm 1.2 and the 50mm 1.4 Asph?

Leica 50mm 1.4 Summilux-M Asph (2008-2023 version):
Diameter: 54 mm
Length: 53 mm
Weight: 330g

Voigtländer VM 50mm 1.2 Nokton:
Diameter: 63 mm
Length: 47 mm
Weight: 347g

The VM has a bigger diameter, but is also half a centimeter shorter on camera.
The weight is pretty much the same.
I never felt one of these lenses is noticeably bigger or smaller than the other.

I don't want to disregard that you find the VM 50mm 1.2 too big, thing is, I also think the Leica 50mm 1.4 is too big,
because they are pretty much the same size.
The VM 50mm 1.5 II on the other hand, that is a lens well sized for the M-mount system, camera also doesn't tip over with that one.



Oct 26, 2023 at 05:31 AM
RexGig0
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


I love my optically perfectly imperfect Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. As for a lens that make a camera tip forward, well, I like that, because a lens that faces downward accumulates less dust and splash residue on the face of the outer element and on the inside of the hood. If a lens has a forward balance, I will intentionally let the camera hang with the lens pointing downward, with the base plate resting against my left side. (The strap is normally oriented cross-body, over my right shoulder.)

To be clear, this is a way to do things, not THE way to do things.

There are times and places for an optically-well-corrected Fifty with more apochromatic correction and/or more flare resistance than a Summilux ASPH. There are times and places for a Fifty that is faster than a Summilux ASPH. I am thankful that Cosina Voigtlander provides us with such Fifties.




Oct 26, 2023 at 06:06 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


rscheffler wrote:
The 50/1.2 is larger than I'd like for use on an M.


BastianK wrote:
This makes me wonder a bit, did you actually compare the VM 50mm 1.2 and the 50mm 1.4 Asph?

Leica 50mm 1.4 Summilux-M Asph (2008-2023 version):
Diameter: 54 mm
Length: 53 mm
Weight: 330g

Voigtländer VM 50mm 1.2 Nokton:
Diameter: 63 mm
Length: 47 mm
Weight: 347g

The VM has a bigger diameter, but is also half a centimeter shorter on camera.
The weight is pretty much the same.
I never felt one of these lenses is noticeably bigger or smaller than the other.

I don't want to disregard that you find the VM 50mm 1.2 too big, thing is, I also think the Leica 50mm 1.4 is too big,
because they are
...Show more

It's more so the diameter which also affects the hood. The carry solution I have for my M system fits the diameter of the Lux comfortably but the VM50/1.2 would make it a tight fit when also carried with the 28 Lux, among the other lenses I usually carry (21 SEM, 90/4 Macro and maybe either VM 35/1.7 or LLL 35/2). Since I didn't have a good experience downsizing the 28 Lux to the VM 28/2 v2, it would make accommodating a larger diameter 50 a bit tighter than I'd like. In this case, the VM 50 APO would probably be the better solution for my carry preferences while delivering better optical performance.



Oct 26, 2023 at 10:12 AM
 


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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


BastianK wrote:
This makes me wonder a bit, did you actually compare the VM 50mm 1.2 and the 50mm 1.4 Asph?

Leica 50mm 1.4 Summilux-M Asph (2008-2023 version):
Diameter: 54 mm
Length: 53 mm
Weight: 330g

Voigtländer VM 50mm 1.2 Nokton:
Diameter: 63 mm
Length: 47 mm
Weight: 347g

The VM has a bigger diameter, but is also half a centimeter shorter on camera.
The weight is pretty much the same.
I never felt one of these lenses is noticeably bigger or smaller than the other.

I don't want to disregard that you find the VM 50mm 1.2 too big, thing is, I also think the Leica 50mm 1.4 is too big,
because they are
...Show more

This photo can show the differences better than just numbers. The CV 50/1.2 is a bit heavier, but you likely won't feel the weight difference. The Lux lens has a built-in hood, while the Voigt lens has an optional hood that makes it bulkier.

The newer Leica 50/1.4 Lux (close-focus) version is even heavier, at 378 grams. All these measurements are without caps.

Here is how they compare at infinity: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1707236/0#15635822
Also rendering differences: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1707236/1#15637090







Oct 26, 2023 at 10:22 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


BastianK wrote:
I know that some people see the Leica 50mm 1.4 Asph as some kind of reference, but after having reviewed it, I have to disagree here.
Off center sharpness at f/1.4 and flare resistance are simply lacking too much for that.
I would never pick it over one of the two Voigtländers included in the comparison, heck,
I would hardly pick it over the Voigtländer VM 50mm 1.5 MK II - regardless of price.
I do think I saw some comparisons here according to which the updated 2023 version of the Leica does in fact show some improvements with regards to off center
...Show more

I don't really think it would matter to include the older 50/1 or 50/1.2 Noct--those lenses don't make any "sense to own." Perhaps just for a reference, but I personally don't make expensive lenses choices based on comparison crops--though they might help inform my decision and others surely will. I might buy the lens from testing, but I'll just sell if I don't like the images as much.

If you have money, just fork it over cause you're getting unique images. That's not just Leica--that's lots of old glass or character glass. If you don't like the rendering, why bother? Some of us like images and photography not for the optical performance, or bang for buck. The ultimate metric is simply--do I like the images the lens produces more than images another lens produces? If so, why would I not pay more for the images I like more?

That principle applies to housing, vacations, food choices, etc. That's how people work. There's almost always a more "reasonable" choice not taken.

I think that answers your question too (I am taking it as a sincere question). People begrudgingly accept that type of engineering cause they can't get the 35 Lux FLE with a better aperture ring. Sure, could switched to a CV 35/1.5 or ZM 35/1.4, but some of don't like those lenses as much, so a pretty unattractive option. For a current 35mm btw, I landed on a CV 35/2 Ultron. The 35 FLE I like more, I just am not paying that price.

I have a set budget for photography--I am not a rich guy. So I am price sensitive. The 50/1 and 35 Pre-ASPH are about half my total photography budget. They often produce my favorite images. So, to me, it's doable, though I am always looking for cheaper character lenses I like as much to save cash. I thought maybe I could replace my 35 Lux pre-asph with the 36/1.3 Apollon, but that's not working out.

At this point, I have only have a 50/1 Noct, 35 Lux Pre-ASPH (not a Leica fanboy). After that, I own no other Leica glass or body. Most of my other lenses are more "reasonable" with AF and decent to very good correction (GM 24, Sigma 35i, Contax 90, Sypotic 50/1.1, CV 35/2 Ultron, Contax G21, 73 Sonnetar, CV 75/1.9). So, maybe it's not so unreasonable to own a couple lenses that you really enjoy within your budget, even if they aren't optically great.



Oct 26, 2023 at 10:32 AM
Ripolini
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


What a beautiful and thorough comparison!
Excellent work.
Probably what I am going to ask has been already investigated: how does the VM 50/1.2 perform when adapted to Sony/Nikon Z sensors? Thanx.



Oct 26, 2023 at 10:54 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


Ripolini wrote:
What a beautiful and thorough comparison!
Excellent work.
Probably what I am going to ask has been already investigated: how does the VM 50/1.2 perform when adapted to Sony/Nikon Z sensors? Thanx.


Fred has a set of images in his Voigtlander 50/1.2 review comparing the VM version against the FE version on Sony:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1561782/32#15316872

Fred's conclusion: "the CV 50/1.2 VM (Leica M) version does not perform optimally on the Sony sensor. Same performance at center but about 2 stops behind off-axis (away from center) due to induced field curvature. If you have a Sony, I highly recommend either the CV 50/1.2 E-mount or CV 50/1.2 SE E-mount versions."




Oct 26, 2023 at 11:12 AM
Matt Kerby
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Super-fast 50mm M-mount comparison by Bastian K at phillipreeve


Wow...What a review, love the interactive comparison pics..I just spent an hour clicking and comparing. I wish every lens comparison page had the same format.

Thanks so much for the time you took doing this...and really, all your reviews, they are an invaluable asset!



Oct 26, 2023 at 11:10 PM
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