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R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Sy Sez
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Though I only use SERVO myself, I came across a discussion in another forum as to Face-Detection in One-Shot, that raised my curiosity.

I was under the impression that Face Detection only worked in SERVO but the Manual seems to imply that Face Detection can function in One-Shot as well; however, when I have my R5 in the Face+Tracking AF Method, and I switch from SERVO to One-shot, I don't get any AF Point at all.

I there a Face Detect Mode, with or without Tracking, that works in One-shot?

Oct 20, 2023 at 09:59 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

I have an R6, which I believe is the same as the R5 in respect to how it handles face detection AF.

I put the camera in One Shot AF mode, selected the face + tracking AF point option - it's the full image area and it automatically finds the face, turned on people detection and eye detection. With the R6 and presumably the R5, you're not able to use face + tracking with other AF point options, it's just the full image area. In my test, I brought up a head and shoulder portrait on my monitor and in One Shot AF, the camera would find the face and/or eyes and focus on them. And I could use the thumb joystick to toggle between left and right eyes and other faces within the scene. But you're right that there isn't an AF point, rather the camera will decide where to focus. And this was sometimes a problem, even with a very easy head and shoulder portrait on a plain background. Sometimes it would quickly find the face, other times it would lock on the shoulder or neck instead and I'd have to pump AF a few times, or move closer in, before it would lock on the face and/or eyes.

When it locked on, I could recompose the image however I liked and the camera tracked the face, then locked AF and AF point placement once the shutter was half-pressed.

When I switched back to AI Servo, which I always use, in the face + tracking AF mode, then an AF box appeared in the viewfinder image for the first two sub-options of menu setting: AF tab sub-tab #5: Initial Servo AF pt for face + tracking. If the Auto option was selected, then no initial AF point, rather the camera would automatically find what it thought was the appropriate point of focus and would lock on a face if it found one (though not always, which could be annoying).

Oct 20, 2023 at 11:06 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

I don't have the R5 anymore but I have an R6II. I just tried it.

A note. I have the equivalent AF menu set up on my on the R6II as I did for my R5. It's called AF Preview. For the R5 it's on page 5, top menu as I recall. Initial AF set to Auto. It shows that white broken pre-focus square. You don't have to press any buttons for it to work. The camera just has to be awake.

For my R6II. In both Servo and and One-Shot the white pre-prefocus square found the eye. I could move the camera around and it stayed on the eye.

In Servo I moved the camera around and the white square tracked the eye. When I engaged AF the blue square kicked in on the eye, I could move the camera around and it would still follow the eye.

In One-shot I moved the camera around and the white square tracked the eye. When I engaged AF the green AF kicked in on the eye but that was it. When I moved the camera around it stayed in that original position.

Since I never used One-Shot with my ML's I don't know I there is a menu to get around that. When you think about it Servo never locks AF, it just tracks. One-Shot locks so I guess moving the camera around after could result in AF issues?

Oct 20, 2023 at 11:13 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Since I mainly shoot landscape and macro, I use one-shot most of the time, albeit I love servo for moving critters or the rare human. Eye focus works on the subject's eye in both one-shot and servo modes on my R7 and R6 MK II. In one-shot mode, it shows a tiny green square within the AF area locks focus on that eye when I half press the shutter button. Unlike the older style AF system in the R, R6 and R5, the R7 and R6 MK II have eye focus in reduced point, single point, expanded, small area, large area and whole screen. I have eye focus on the DOF button so I can toggle it on/off as needed. I can even toggle between left and right eye in one-shot mode on the R6 MK II.

With eye AF disabled, the R6 MK II it acts like a traditional DSLR in one-shot mode—what I prefer for static subjects like landscapes and tripod mounted macro. Servo is no fun for static subjects so I move the single point or small area with my finger when needed.

Oct 21, 2023 at 01:08 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Even with Eye Detect enabled it acted like I described in post #3

Oct 21, 2023 at 01:16 AM

Sy Sez
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

OK, I put the R5 in One-shot with Face+Tracking AF Method, aimed at a portrait image, and got the "large" square over the face, so face detection does function iin One-Shot.

The guy in that other forum was complaining that in that same setup, he was unable to move the AF box with the Joy-stick, and I couldn't either, so I assume that's normal behavior in One-shot, whereas with Face+tracking in SERVO, you can move the AF Pont with the Joy-stick (Multi-Controller that is).

Oct 21, 2023 at 08:13 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Gochugogi wrote:
I can even toggle between left and right eye in one-shot mode on the R6 MK II.

I was able to do this also with my R6, in One Shot, when I tested it yesterday to write my earlier comment. Toggling between left/right eye and other faces is also possible in Servo but it appears that AF menu tab 5 "Initial Servo AF pt for face + tracking" has to be set to Auto. If set to the other two options and with Servo as the selected AF method, it will not allow toggling between eyes/faces.

Edited on Oct 21, 2023 at 10:19 AM · View previous versions

Oct 21, 2023 at 09:51 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Sy Sez wrote:
OK, I put the R5 in One-shot with Face+Tracking AF Method, aimed at a portrait image, and got the "large" square over the face, so face detection does function iin One-Shot.

The guy in that other forum was complaining that in that same setup, he was unable to move the AF box with the Joy-stick, and I couldn't either, so I assume that's normal behavior in One-shot, whereas with Face+tracking in SERVO, you can move the AF Pont with the Joy-stick (Multi-Controller that is).

I believe that is the normal way it works. After acquiring AF in Servo you can move it around to other subjects. When AF locks in One-Shot you can't. Both will find the Face or Eye before the actual exposure.

One thing I liked about using the white pre-focus square in one shot was it tells me where it will focus before I initiate AF. I'm not going to use One-shot so for me it won't matter but I found it interesting.

Oct 21, 2023 at 10:15 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Sy Sez wrote:
OK, I put the R5 in One-shot with Face+Tracking AF Method, aimed at a portrait image, and got the "large" square over the face, so face detection does function in One-Shot.

If eye detection is on, it should then jump to an eye, but I noticed with the R6 that depending on the composition, sometimes even with eye detection on, it stubbornly only put a box around the face, then maybe later it would finally recognize the eyes and pick one.

The guy in that other forum was complaining that in that same setup, he was unable to move the AF box with the Joy-stick, and I couldn't either, so I assume that's normal behavior in One-shot, whereas with Face+tracking in SERVO, you can move the AF Pont with the Joy-stick (Multi-Controller that is).

In One Shot when face + tracking is the AF type selected, the camera will choose the location of the focus point/area automatically and if it finds a face/eye, it will focus there. Then the only user option is toggling between eyes and faces if more than one is present in the scene. Otherwise, there isn't a user positionable AF box in One Shot. If face/eye detection is off, the camera will automatically pick what it thinks is the correct point of focus. In Servo, with face + tracking AF type selected and AF menu tab 5 Initial Servo AF pt for face + tracking not set to Auto, when face and eye detection is disabled, you can move the AF square around to wherever you want Servo focus continuously update AF, but I found there was no guarantee that the camera wouldn't suddenly jump to something else it liked better - in other words, the position of the AF box was not respected after a while. In such cases, IMO it's much better to use a user-positionable AF point type other than the face + tracking option. If face/eye detection is enabled, the camera will jump to the nearest face/eye from wherever the AF box has been positioned, if it detects a face/eyes.

This is where the R6II, R3, R7 and R8 (I believe) allow better refinement by allowing one to assign face/eye detection/tracking to any AF point type, and also by allowing one to assign whether the camera only tracks faces/eyes within the AF point area, or continues AF and tracking as the face/eyes leave the AF point area.

Oct 21, 2023 at 10:51 AM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

If the R7/R6 MK II is unable to lock on an eye, it defaults to the face and, lastly, to the body of the perceived subject. I've only used eye focus extensively on lizards and butterflies and the default hierarchy is extremely consistent. Seems to work similarly on humans and larger mammals but I rarely encounter such subjects.

Oct 21, 2023 at 01:57 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Well again I can't post a screen shot. I'll have to contact Fred.

I took a shot with my R6II in One-Shot. The white pre-focus square came up to tell me that is where AF would be. It was on the eye. I moved the camera around and it tracked the eye. Once I pressed the shutter half way it locked and when I moved the camera around the AF point did not move.

Oct 21, 2023 at 02:13 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Worked this time on a new post.

Oct 21, 2023 at 02:13 PM

stevenskl
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Don´t forget that you can always move the AF point by touch&drag on the back monitor, even if face and eye detection is on in One Shot.

Oct 21, 2023 at 02:15 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

stevenskl wrote:
Don´t forget that you can always move the AF point by touch&drag on the back monitor, even if face and eye detection is on in One Shot.

Right I forgot about that. I disabled both the joystick and LCD for that shortly after getting my R5 (and all ML bodies). Good you mentioned that as I'm getting old

Oct 21, 2023 at 02:18 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

Yeah, I also disabled that because sometimes I'd find the AF point had been inadvertently moved into a corner. But I'll give it another try. With that on and continuous AF turned on, the camera will immediate refocus to where the AF point has been moved without the need to press any buttons to activate AF. Could be useful for getting focus ready sooner in some situations.

The interesting thing about this is that on the R3, you can use eye control to point the orange circle to the desired area rather than having to move a finger around the back LCD display. I found this implementation to be very slick when I had an R3 CPS loaner, in part because my preference has always been back button to initiate focus, which with the R3 and eye control, obviously freed up my thumb to initiate AF. You can still do it on an R5/R6 moving the point with your thumb to the desired area, then hit whichever back button has been assigned to initiate AF, but there's that half-second delay. Maybe turning on continuous AF here would help address that and maybe switching a back button to AF lock instead of activation for those times you want to lock AF. I think a reason I turned off continuous AF was to save battery life.

Enabling the option to move the AF point by finger via the rear display might address the complaint of the person in the other forum in that it at least allows them to point AF to the desired area. Once over that area, the camera will then decide how big or small of an AF box it will place there.

Oct 21, 2023 at 04:00 PM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

I came across this video. Even Jan uses the white pre-focus square. It's at second 0:10.

At minute 5 is interesting. I didn't know this but I never noticed it because when shooting I don't let my camera go to sleep.

Oct 22, 2023 at 11:42 PM

Sy Sez
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · R5 Face Detection in One-Shot ?

I've been using the BB/AFON button set for Metering & Auto-Focus Start, and the Shutter button to Metering Start.

A poster on another forum stated: "I use BBF, when using it in servo it's just that. But if you want one shot, just lift your thumb off the BBF button after you locked focus. It makes it so you can have both"

Though toggling between SERVO & One-Shot is customizable to any button I never did so, & certainly not to my AF-ON button!

Oddly, I checked, and my AF-ON was configured to toggling between SERVO & One-Shot though I never customized it that way, as I don't use One-Shot.

How/when/why my AF-On got switched from Metering & AF Start to Toggle SERVO<>One-Shot is beyond me

Oct 26, 2023 at 10:06 AM


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