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Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

IlyaSnopchenko
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

I guess that's where Canon would like the crop users to be pigeonholed, having them go to FF (and buy the gear all over again

) for any kind of "serious" work. So I guess no equivalent of the 17-55, or even the 10-22, for us in the future.

I might be overly cynical, of course.

Oct 18, 2023 at 05:31 AM

tomasr
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

Mike_5D wrote:
Probably the biggest complaint against any real camera system is the size and weight, particularly the lenses. Having small and light lenses available is a good thing. No one's forcing you to buy them.

Let's face it, none of these system cameras will ever compete for size and portability with smartphone; so knocking down the aperture and IQ down to or under smartphone levels will only crystalize the problems. This will not retail at $150; that's in fact more than I would pay for this. No, it may be closer to $699, maybe $899 given previous releases. I.e. totally disproportional to the quality and materials or simply a daylight robbery.
Fuji somehow manages to make trendy, beautiful cameras to look at even if I completely despise their ergonomics. This is neither. A cheap plastic that is wasteful for the environment and hurtful to look at. I bet corners will be nothing but smear like pretty much every non L RF lens released to date. Why not design a nice and sharp prime like Sigma 17mm DN contemporary? No the 16mm one is pathetic. Canon won't allow usable non-L sub-$2000 glass. Even these are very questionable and can hardly resolve to R5 in the periphery. The big whites keep them on top in the sports and news market, but for the rest the ship is sinking fast.

Oct 18, 2023 at 10:51 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

^ You seem to have had quite a different experience with the R system and lenses than I have...

IlyaSnopchenko wrote:
But this lens doesn't look like it's an improvement over the 11-22 in any regard: smaller, slower, more plasticky, shorter range. I guess there can be hope for a higher tier crop ultrawide to be released later on (like there were the 10-22 and 10-18 in the EF-S lineup), but Canon's ways are inscrutable.

From a build and paper specs perspective, I suppose. But we have not yet seen images from it. So far with 'budget' RF zoom lenses, Canon seems to have offered better than expected optical performance. Maybe the lenses are slow, but they seem to be very usable wide open, unlike past 'kit' lenses. (I got a 24-105/4-7.1 STM with a used R6 and it surprised me.) In respect to image quality, I will guess that this new 10-18 will require fairly strong distortion correction at the wide end.

matejphoto wrote:
I doubt that we will see more premium lenses from Canon for the RF-s. I think their strategy is that is you want premium then go full frame.
Honestly I think it is sensible strategy for Canon. The RF-s will be ultra competitive on price. For everything else there is FF.
The industry is under immense pressure from smartphones on the lower end so they need to be smart on where they spend the resources.

I agree. RF-S addresses the entry level for Canon's R system. I suspect those looking for higher-end APS-C options are looking at Fuji's X system. I can just imagine the complaints that would be voiced if Canon released RF-S L series lenses that would certainly be priced higher than US$1k. And it's unlikely Canon will license third parties to release premium APS-C lenses that could discourage RF-S users from upgrading to FF.

Oct 18, 2023 at 12:27 PM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

IlyaSnopchenko wrote:
I guess that's where Canon would like the crop users to be pigeonholed, having them go to FF (and buy the gear all over again

) for any kind of "serious" work. So I guess no equivalent of the 17-55, or even the 10-22, for us in the future.

I might be overly cynical, of course.

For what it's worth, I saw an RF-S 16-55 2.8 IS USM on a rumors list, so who knows. As for the old EF-S 10-22, while the build is nicer than the EF-S 18-18, I found the 10-18 to be sharper than my 10-22, smoother at focusing and the stabilization extremely handy for video and low light. When I tried to sell my mint 10-22, it was worth only about $60, half of what the 10-18 goes for. So I kept it as a paperweight.

An odd thing I noticed about plastic mount lenses like the RF-S 18-150, EF-S 55-250 4-5.6 IS STM and EF-S 10-18 is they don't transmit mechanical shutter vibrations, AKA, shutter shock, like metal mount lenses do. Well, at least on the R7. My EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM has the worse shutter shock ever and can be only be used reliably in E-shutter. It must act like a resonating chamber...

Oct 18, 2023 at 12:38 PM

tomasr
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

rscheffler wrote:
From a build and paper specs perspective, I suppose. But we have not yet seen images from it. So far with 'budget' RF zoom lenses, Canon seems to have offered better than expected optical performance. Maybe the lenses are slow, but they seem to be very usable wide open, unlike past 'kit' lenses. (I got a 24-105/4-7.1 STM with a used R6 and it surprised me.) In respect to image quality, I will guess that this new 10-18 will require fairly strong distortion correction at the wide end.

I agree. RF-S addresses the entry level for Canon's R system. I...Show more →

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1504&Camera=1508&Sample=0&FLI=2&API=3&LensComp=941&CameraComp=979&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3 I suspect you may be resolving less than the headline camera spec.

I really see 2 types of entry level byers, and the third type will just get the premium version of their favourite smartphone brand upgrade. So type 1 will get the cheapest reputable kit option, potentially one of the Canons and may at some point want an addon wide lens. Since the shop will only offer this one, they will just buy it or not buy one at all. Type 2 will be looking for a set package from the outset and thinking further ahead. And these customers really are the ones that will just get Sony, Fuji or Olympus instead. You can't make !) awful aesthetics, 2) poor performance and 3) poor value propositions and expect to rely on pre-existing reputation and fanbase. You have to offer at least 2 out of 3. You will never win on size because smartphone has already won that one.

Oct 18, 2023 at 12:54 PM

IlyaSnopchenko
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

I thought the pinnacle of Canon's evolution of crop lenses was the latter-day EF-S STM trinity: the 10-18 / 18-55 / 55-250. After that, starting with the EF-M equivalents, they started consciously cutting corners again. I guess they were dead set on ensuring that no one would consciously stay with lenses of this class if they needed quality (for example, especially the EF-M 55-200 was a step down from its EF-S predecessor in almost every regard, most notably IQ if Photozone is to be believed).

Oct 18, 2023 at 01:21 PM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

The 2023 numbers aren't out yet, but last year Canon had the majority of the top 10 camera models in terms of sales, with the M50 MK II as number 1. Fuji didn't make the cut at all. I live in Honolulu and see a lot of M50 variants, mostly white ones, dangling from the hordes of Japanese tourists (entry level buyers) that visit my island. I think Canon will be making even more money with cheap lenses for the camera toting masses and with "luxury" lenses for the small niche of pros and collector/hobbyists. They certainly got a lot of my cash these past couple years...

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/10-best-selling-mirrorless-cameras-in-2022-so-far-canon-is-still-the-daddy

Oct 18, 2023 at 01:24 PM

Gochugogi
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

Oct 18, 2023 at 01:36 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

tomasr wrote:
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1504&Camera=1508&Sample=0&FLI=2&API=3&LensComp=941&CameraComp=979&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3 I suspect you may be resolving less than the headline camera spec.

As I mentioned earlier I have some concerns about TDP's charts with wide angle lenses. The 24-105 STM is not perfect and has large distortion corrections applied at 24mm, which affects peripheral sharpness to a degree. But 28-50 is actually very good compared to my 28-70/2, and that surprised me. It doesn't handle certain aspects as gracefully as that lens, but for the extra $200 it cost to include with the R6, it has made that back multiple times already via some basic video duty. For my practical uses, it's mostly a good lens and it appears many of the low end RF zooms are similar.

If I was coming in fresh and pretty sure I'd stay with APS-C or m43, then Canon wouldn't be my first choice for many of the reasons already discussed. I just don't agree that Canon's budget lenses are across the board junk. I'm actually very excited about the 28/2.8 and will eventually get one.

Gochugogi wrote:
An odd thing I noticed about plastic mount lenses like the RF-S 18-150, EF-S 55-250 4-5.6 IS STM and EF-S 10-18 is they don't transmit mechanical shutter vibrations, AKA, shutter shock, like metal mount lenses do. Well, at least on the R7. My EF-S 17-55 2.8 IS USM has the worse shutter shock ever and can be only be used reliably in E-shutter. It must act like a resonating chamber...

It could also be due to older IS tech. Or some kind of miscommunication between IBIS and IS. On DSLRs when I used my old 300/4L IS, I could see through the viewfinder the IS 'bounce' in reaction to the mirror/shutter slap vibrations. If I shot a sequence the IS would cause the viewfinder image to gradually drift in one direction, then jump back to center at the end of the sequence. The R7 shouldn't be DSLR bad with respect to such vibrations, but I seem to recall an old thread about it being a problem at the higher frame rates and certain shutter speed ranges.

Oct 18, 2023 at 01:36 PM

alundeb
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

IlyaSnopchenko wrote:
I thought the pinnacle of Canon's evolution of crop lenses was the latter-day EF-S STM trinity: the 10-18 / 18-55 / 55-250. After that, starting with the EF-M equivalents, they started consciously cutting corners again. I guess they were dead set on ensuring that no one would consciously stay with lenses of this class if they needed quality (for example, especially the EF-M 55-200 was a step down from its EF-S predecessor in almost every regard, most notably IQ if Photozone is to be believed).

The EF-M 11-22 is a much better lens than the EF-S 10-18 STM. Faster as well. In my opinion the pinnacle of crop UWA zooms.

The EF-M 55-200 is a very different lens from the EF-S 55-250. STM. The EF-S is better above 150mm, that is all. From 55 to 150 mm the EF-M is better, and it is a much smaller and lighter lens. I don't know about the RF-S version.

Regarding the standard zoom, I don't know but the RF-S 18-150 I have, has surprised me positively. It performs like a quality 18-55 with the benefit of going to 150 mm as well. For that it is incredibly small and light, and reasonably priced as well. Nothing in the EF-S era could ever get close to that performance in that small package. If the EF-M version was considered bad, and the RF-S version is the same optics, maybe there was copy variation, I don't know.

For new members, my main camera and quality reference is the 5DSR. So my quality expectations are not entry level.

According to some, the Canon ship has been sinking fast for the past 10 years. Meanwhile, some of us appreciate all the new options that enable us to bring our photography even further. I would be interested in a tiny 10-18 to toss into the bag for the occasional WA shot while hiking with the 100-400. It doesn't need to perform like a high end prime on FF.

Oct 18, 2023 at 01:48 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

alundeb wrote:
According to some, the Canon ship has been sinking fast for the past 10 years. Meanwhile, some of us appreciate all the new options that enable us to bring our photography even further. I would be interested in a tiny 10-18 to toss into the bag for the occasional WA shot while hiking with the 100-400. It doesn't need to perform like a high end prime on FF.

+1

I got the RF 16/2.8 for that very reason. It's good enough, warts and all, for the few times I want FF 16mm and saves me having to bring along my considerably larger 16-35/4 with adapter. I'm just waiting for a 20/2.8 to fill the gap between the 16 and 28/2.8, with a dose of the 28's optical voodoo.

In the past I would never have touched Canon's kit lenses. But my negative impressions of Canon's low end have been tempered by what they've released so far for RF. Sure, on paper, it's all very unexciting. Funny thing is that in actual use, the Canon product planners might not have been all that far off, IMO.

Oct 18, 2023 at 01:53 PM

tomasr
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

rscheffler wrote:
As I mentioned earlier I have some concerns about TDP's charts with wide angle lenses. The 24-105 STM is not perfect and has large distortion corrections applied at 24mm, which affects peripheral sharpness to a degree. But 28-50 is actually very good compared to my 28-70/2, and that surprised me.

Now this is the most worrying part of it all. 28-70mm f/2 should really walk circles round the kit lens, and if it doesn't we have a big problem. Or do we have another 6K-limited mega expensive convenience-only beast, and I'm just purely guessing with a massive field curvature simply because Canon loved to put it in all other previous zooms.

TDP charts can make bad lens look better if they have good closeup performance, but I never saw it do the opposite. So if it looks soft it probably is... Arguably this can be masked on 6K up to some extent where it resolves just enough but no more. That's most of EF f/2.8 L zooms. Good up to R3, don't try them on 5Ds/R5 type of deal.

Oct 18, 2023 at 02:25 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

One of the reasons I got the 28-70, other than the great wide open rendering that replaced a bag of EF primes, is that it has very minimal field curvature compared to other 24-70 style zooms. BTW, my 'other' kit is Leica M, so it's not that I'm not picky about my lenses.

But I'm also realistic about my expectations, relative to my requirements. In this respect, I'm very happy with the RF lenses I've purchased to date.

Oct 18, 2023 at 02:57 PM

Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

I'm just back from a week at our favorite beach campground on the central Calif coast. I'm greeted by news of the discontinuation of the M and this lens. My first thought is that Canon is discontinuing the M without replacements for the important M lenses. This lens is a disappointment against that thought.

However, if it is sufficiently sharp and cheap it might serve as a day hiking kit supplement.

The R7 and my current collection of lenses was quite versatile and convenient on this trip. I'm experimenting with a 7 Artisans 12mm f2.8 in R mount. The jury is still out on this lens. The 14-35 L may get more use on the R7 than the R5, it has an excellent landscape range. The 18-150 and 100-400 are sharp and fun. No EF-M equivalent fast primes is a disappointment but I'm liking my three EF-S f2.8 primes on the R7. I see an RF-S 11-22 is still on the rumor site's road map for whatever that is worth.

Oh, as a side note I noticed that the R7 has a menu option to only activate IS during shoot as well as all the time. I have several EF lenses that sound really rattly while the IS is always going. This option might broaden my lens usage.

Oct 20, 2023 at 12:08 PM

IlyaSnopchenko
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

No announcement date for this lens yet and the rumour sites are mum... But if quality pictures of it have been leaked, it probably won't be long.

Oct 23, 2023 at 01:03 AM

mawz
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

I’m liking the size of it, it would make a great compact vlogging lens on an R10 or R50, and a nice bag UWA for the R7 user carrying mostly their telephoto.

That said, I likely won’t get one as I already have the EF-S 10-18 and that works well enough as a cheaper option for me. I’ll be looking at the 14-35L as my next wide for the R7 (and eventual R6II or R5).

Oct 23, 2023 at 04:57 PM

alundeb
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/rf-s10-18mm-f4-5-6-3-is-stm

Incredibly lightweight at only 150g. First impression looks good. I'm positive

Nov 02, 2023 at 02:30 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon RF-S 10-18mm to come

The new Canon RF-S 10-18mm is available for pre-order at B&H Photo.

Nov 02, 2023 at 10:09 AM

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