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System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!

  
 
jlafferty
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


I don’t buy it. My aperture, ISO and shutter speed are all set to 1/3rd stop adjustments. So why not my lights as well? This way I just need to count clicks to know exactly how much I need to shift one to compensate for adjustments in another.

story_teller wrote:
If you think in terms of “Stops” of light, it makes sense. We look at aperture, shutter speed and ISO in stops of light. Being able to adjust in 1/10th stop increments gives you finer control of light intensity. If I go from 9 to 7, I’ve decreased the light by 2-stops. If I go from 9 to 8.5, I’ve decreased the light by 1/2 stop. If you work with exposure equivalents a lot, stops of light make much more sense than absolute percentages. “Let’s see, if I drop the light power by 86%, what should I change my aperture
...Show more



Oct 13, 2023 at 06:51 AM
RobArtLyn
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


story_teller wrote:
If you think in terms of “Stops” of light, it makes sense. We look at aperture, shutter speed and ISO in stops of light. Being able to adjust in 1/10th stop increments gives you finer control of light intensity. If I go from 9 to 7, I’ve decreased the light by 2-stops. If I go from 9 to 8.5, I’ve decreased the light by 1/2 stop. If you work with exposure equivalents a lot, stops of light make much more sense than absolute percentages. “Let’s see, if I drop the light power by 86%, what should I change my aperture
...Show more

Except that absolutely nobody does it in exact percentages. It’s fractions that work in powers of two and then either 1/2 or 1/3 steps in between. Increasing a stop from 1/4 is 1/2. Decreasing a stop from 1/4 is 1/8. Nobody increases their shutter speed by 75%. It’s 2/3 of a stop, which actually won’t mean anything for strobe power unless you cross over your sync speed.



Oct 13, 2023 at 02:49 PM
story_teller
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


RobArtLyn wrote:
Except that absolutely nobody does it in exact percentages. It’s fractions that work in powers of two and then either 1/2 or 1/3 steps in between. Increasing a stop from 1/4 is 1/2. Decreasing a stop from 1/4 is 1/8. Nobody increases their shutter speed by 75%. It’s 2/3 of a stop, which actually won’t mean anything for strobe power unless you cross over your sync speed.


I suppose if you're really anal about it you could move the light closer or further away by 1.25879 inches or something.. That might adjust the .30 on the dial to exactly .333333333 stops. If you don't like the way Profoto measures their strobe power, there's no reason for you to use them. I ahd a lot of other photographers are perfectly happy with the current system.



Oct 13, 2023 at 08:07 PM
zeitlos
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


Thank you again for your input! The more I read, the more I think to myself, why obsessively move away from Godox? Why not continue working with it or tackle the whole thing in more depth.
It would probably be very easy to expand the system in a targeted manner. In addition to the two AD400 Pros (I already have the holder for two flashes), I could add a 600, which should then be fine for my photos outside. These are primarily individual portraits, not groups. I don't know if Godox still has an 800 outdoor flash. I have to check, maybe there would be a bigger jump and or more reserve for further projects. One flash as a hair light, another one for the background, could be suitable.

What I would also like to have would be an AD100 Pro with one of these new click softboxes that you can open in a second. It would be a great mobile thing for spontaneous, unleashed flashing. I still have to find out to what extent the AD100 Pro can also serve as a “serious” flash in certain situations.


I would also have liked the ONE from Elinchrom and the FIVE (in principle) or found them interesting. But when you see how big the ONE is compared to the AD100Pro, with not that much more power... well...



Oct 14, 2023 at 03:25 AM
scottiet
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


You cannot go wrong wrong with Godox. I have several lights and they have been with me for over 5 years....no issues.
I am a location photographer, so my gear sometimes gets beat up. I would be way to nervous to use Profoto due to the initial cost, as well as repair cots.



Oct 14, 2023 at 03:52 AM
lerxst
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


I bought 3x Godox Xplor 600PRO R2 in December 2018. 2 of them were dead by 2021. Only 1 remains functioning. Kind of a bummer. I did maybe 10 shoots with them and was always gentle. Never dropped or damaged once. All the batteries died after less than 10 cycles too.

Not sure where to go from here. I’m leery of buying a new 600PRO because of the high failure rate I experienced, and also because they haven’t updated it at all in 6 years and yet it costs more money today.



Oct 14, 2023 at 04:06 AM
jlafferty
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


Something else has to be going on here. I have three 600s, two 200s, one 300… and prior to this I had four Streaklight 360s, and two of the non-pro 600s. Zero issues with any of them. I have one battery that seems to hold less charge than the others, out of 5 batteries total, but it’s still worth using in the mix. And I have burned through a bulb and replaced it. I think this spans 8 years?

You’re in NY - you should buy via Adorama. They even have a service repair center for their Flashpoint rebadge of Godox. They might be able to address your Godox lights if you reach out.

lerxst wrote:
I bought 3x Godox Xplor 600PRO R2 in December 2018. 2 of them were dead by 2021. Only 1 remains functioning. Kind of a bummer. I did maybe 10 shoots with them and was always gentle. Never dropped or damaged once. All the batteries died after less than 10 cycles too.

Not sure where to go from here. I’m leery of buying a new 600PRO because of the high failure rate I experienced, and also because they haven’t updated it at all in 6 years and yet it costs more money today.




Oct 14, 2023 at 07:06 AM
dalegaspi
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


jlafferty wrote:
The irony is: Godox has better color consistency :/


this doesn't reflect my experience. For me, Profoto has consistent color regardless of power setting...i couldn't say the same for Godox...especially when you use lower power settings.

I still like my Godox lights...but I would not rely on them if color consistency is critical.



Oct 14, 2023 at 10:26 AM
jlafferty
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


It depends on the light, in both cases. However, I tested a Pro8a pack with a C-700 color meter at the time I reviewed the 600Pro for Adorama, and - even as a high end piece of gear - it showed huge swings from lowest to highest output. The 600Pro wasn’t as good as the specs claimed, but much better than the original 600, and plenty good for color critical work.

If you want to see some ugly color swings, put a Profoto B1x into HSS

dalegaspi wrote:
this doesn't reflect my experience. For me, Profoto has consistent color regardless of power setting...i couldn't say the same for Godox...especially when you use lower power settings.

I still like my Godox lights...but I would not rely on them if color consistency is critical.




Oct 14, 2023 at 02:37 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


Elinchrom user here. I bought into the system when the Quadra Ranger was released around 2009ish. This was before the world takeover by Godox. Selling point for me at the time was that they had a head with shorter flash duration than most of the competition. The lights I used prior to Elinchrom increased in flash duration as the power output was reduced, which resulted in ghosting with sufficient subject movement. And those lights were not digitally controlled and output floated a bit from shot to shot, which added a bit of time to my post to equalize images.

While the Quadra Ranger system today isn’t close to cutting edge, I appreciate that Elinchrom didn’t just abandon older models as they released improvements. They have generally maintained compatibility across the product range, from old to new. Since buying my power packs, they released the ‘HS’ head for Hi-Sync (hypersync - not to be confused with HSS) that I can use with the original packs just as well as with the newer ones, and a much more comprehensive radio transmitter, that with firmware updates has full TTL and HSS capability with the newer Elinchrom units. I guess what I’m getting at is that the old stuff still works, picked up some capabilities that weren’t available on initial release and can be integrated with the latest units. It has also been dependable and I still use it. I even upgraded the old SLA batteries to LiFePO4 myself, which removed one of the most significant bottlenecks of the old SLA batteries - relatively low number of full power pops on a charge.

But would I get the One and Five? Difficult to say. I like what they can do, but feel like I’d rather go back to Paul C Buff with the Celestial, which IMO has some significant advantages over Godox - size, price, service/support. But given you’re in Europe, I don’t think Buff is a good option given they’re mostly focused on the American market.

Elinchrom does make very nice light modifiers. Their Rotalux system can be used on other brand strobes via the appropriate connector ring, and there is one for Bowens mount, IIRC. I highly recommend the versatility of looks possible with these, particularly the 100cm Deep Octa for portraits/head shots.

Given your budget and requirements, it would seem Godox is probably the logical, if not the most exciting conclusion. Elinchrom would do the job, but at a higher price point and I’m not sure you’d see a difference in the photos. Same with Profoto, etc.



Oct 15, 2023 at 11:32 PM
 


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rscheffler
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


Just want to add that one missing feature has me hesitant about the Elinchrom ONE, and it’s not even the non-removable battery. It’s the apparent lack of a sync port. When I’m mixing multiple strobe systems at events - Elinchrom, Paul C Buff and Canon speedlites on-camera, I use the Canon RT system to fire everything (manual power output for the strobes) via Phottix Laso receivers (sadly discontinued), which connect to the strobes via sync cable. Here the lack of an Elinchrom on-camera flash is a definite disadvantage for my needs compared to Godox and Profoto, if I wanted to mix on-camera with off, without the Phottix “bridge” I currently use. I think there might be some way to use a Phottix speedlite to do this, but the brand is somewhat obscure and they seem to have scaled back on their range of strobes/speedlites. To be honest, I kind of wish Canon would make a ~400 W/s battery powered strobe, though considering the price of their EL-1 speedlite, such a unit might come in at Profoto pricing.


Oct 16, 2023 at 01:55 PM
tcphoto
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


I have owned Profoto Acutes since '94 and have been happy with their performance. I've upgraded as new models are released and have purchased used kits for the past twenty plus years. I accumulated three B600 kits and recently sold one and traded two for a mint 7b kit with two b flash heads then recelled the battery. I simply like the Acute2 line with a mix of Profoto, Elinchrom and Mola modifiers and know that there are a couple independent shops will service them if needed.


Oct 16, 2023 at 02:08 PM
corposant
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


I’ve been a happy Elinchrom user for a long time and I think their modifiers are amazing. I bought a V1 when I was looking for a hot shoe speedlite and was really impressed. Turns out you can also adapt Bowens to Eli or just get speedrings for my 3rd party mods. I’d probably go Godox if starting from scratch today.


Oct 16, 2023 at 07:34 PM
aCuria
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


If you rent equipment, choose whatever system is cheap to rent locally and has highly availability

If you don’t rent then Godox seems to be the best bang for the buck by a mile, but be prepared to replace stuff breaks instead of having a repair available

For Godox it seems better to wait a 1-2 year period after release before buying, they tend to have issues that get fixed only later on

For example the color cast issue on the release AD100



Oct 16, 2023 at 10:25 PM
aCuria
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!




lerxst wrote:
I bought 3x Godox Xplor 600PRO R2 in December 2018. 2 of them were dead by 2021. Only 1 remains functioning. Kind of a bummer. I did maybe 10 shoots with them and was always gentle. Never dropped or damaged once. All the batteries died after less than 10 cycles too.

Not sure where to go from here. I’m leery of buying a new 600PRO because of the high failure rate I experienced, and also because they haven’t updated it at all in 6 years and yet it costs more money today.


Sounds like the flashpoint branded ones, shouldn’t this be covered under warranty?



Oct 17, 2023 at 04:52 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


I like Elinchrom because they still make bare-bulb flashes which fill the larger modifiers evenly, rather than forward-directed system where there may be a hot spot unless some kind of deflectors are used. Elinchrom offers indirect softboxes where the light is bounced from the interior surface after which it passes though one or two diffusers for even more softening, e.g. the 150 cm indirect rotalux octa is relatively inexpensive for the size and quality of light. The softboxes where the light is directed towards the front produce hot spots but this can be alleviated by using one of the supplied deflectors. In my opinion the indirect type is still preferable for soft light. Profoto mostly makes lights which direct the light forward, which doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing, it just means that the setup may need to be modified to compensate for the differences to achieve the desired outcome.

Elincrhom's Quadra series (now ELB) have really tiny heads connected to a battery pack. The convenience here is that the small head is more easy to place in tight spots, near the ceiling, and it doesn't make the setup top heavy. The disadvantage is having to deal with cables and battery pack + generator modules. While battery-powered monolights have become smaller the small ones have lower maximum flash energy than ELB/Quadra.

If you plan on using cameras which only have electronic shutter (such as the Nikon Z8/Z9) then some lights may be susceptible to banding at fast shutter speeds. Nikon supports their own flashes (speedlights) and Profoto and Nissen have been given detailed information about the operation of the flash control interface so these should work correctly. Elinchrom also does as far as I've been able to determine there is no banding at those fast shutter speeds that I've used the HS head with. However, I haven't tried VERY fast speeds, as usually 1/500s or 1/1000s has been sufficient for me to balance with daylight.



Oct 17, 2023 at 06:21 AM
sungphoto
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


ilkka_nissila wrote:
If you plan on using cameras which only have electronic shutter (such as the Nikon Z8/Z9) then some lights may be susceptible to banding at fast shutter speeds. Nikon supports their own flashes (speedlights) and Profoto and Nissen have been given detailed information about the operation of the flash control interface so these should work correctly. Elinchrom also does as far as I've been able to determine there is no banding at those fast shutter speeds that I've used the HS head with. However, I haven't tried VERY fast speeds, as usually 1/500s or 1/1000s has been sufficient for me
...Show more

I haven't noticed banding on the Z8 and Z9 with profoto or godox flashes. I only notice banding when there are LED light sources in the shot, which can effect cameras with both mechanical and electronic shutters as it's more of a shutter speed issue.



Oct 17, 2023 at 10:42 AM
zeitlos
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


Thank you! Very interesting information again! Especially about Elinchrom.

It‘s “funny“. I made up my mind a few days ago and decided to stick with Godox. Ordered the AD100 Pro and a mobile Softbox.

And then there‘s this… Elinchrom just released the Elinchrom THREE…



Of course it has nothing to do with the Godox AD100 Pro I have just ordered. And there seems to be nothing comparable (in since and power) for Elinchrom, but I still like Elinchrom for some reason.

Maybe the THREE would be a nice starting ground?



Oct 18, 2023 at 10:37 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


THREE vs. B10X, you see the obvious difference - a traditional protruding flash tube vs. flat face. The protruding tube will better fill modifiers like soft boxes, umbrellas, etc.


Oct 18, 2023 at 11:58 PM
story_teller
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · System decision: Profoto, Godox, Elinchrom…? Help!


rscheffler wrote:
THREE vs. B10X, you see the obvious difference - a traditional protruding flash tube vs. flat face. The protruding tube will better fill modifiers like soft boxes, umbrellas, etc.


Only with some modifiers. In reality, both work well, as pointed out in the chart in the video. I prefer the flat face because the flash tube is not as exposed.



Oct 19, 2023 at 01:53 PM
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