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switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

wind30
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

People,

I shoot mainly on vacations. samples of my photos are here.

http://www.keehian.com/gallery/

I now have a9, a74 and a7r5 with 14mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm dg dn lens.

I am thinking of selling my a7r5 and 85mm and get the canon r6ii with 85mm f1.2 DS.

The main issue I have with a7r5 and 85mm f1.4 is 1/8000 is not enough in bright daylight so I have to stop down.

I am thinking of using the r6ii with e-shutter mainly to get around this. How susceptible is the canon r6ii e-shutter to banding in artificial lights? I don't shoot weddings so I don't mind the occasional photo with banding as long as it is rare. Have anyone used the canon r6ii in e-shutter mode mainly indoors even? Do you have to fiddle with the shutter speed to prevent banding? I shoot in aperture mode so the shutter speed moves around a fair bit.

My a9 is stuck with the 35mm so I want another body with shutter speed higher than 1/8000.

I assume the AF speed of the 85mm f1.2 with r6ii will be faster and better than my a7r5 with 85mm dg dn. I don't need the resolution but I will miss the cropping to apsc to get a 130mm lens.

Oct 08, 2023 at 09:39 PM

Mike_5D
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

Electronic shutter will show banding to one degree or another under electronic lighting like LED. There's a mode where it tries to sync but it's not perfect.

Why don't you just buy an ND filter for the outdoor shooting?

Oct 08, 2023 at 10:03 PM

Ludvig83
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

I have used the R6 ii in electronic shutter mode indoors. Using the EFCS with anti-flicker on has been just fine but it cannot be used with electronic shutter only.

You have to switch to Tv (shutter mode) to use electronic shutter only and it will try to match the frequency of the LED with "HF anti flicker" mode. It worked just fine. The difference is that you have to stick to that shutter speed that it auto finds (119.something). I have seen some banding going above it when doing multiples of that shutter speed. The best results are precisely at the shutter speed it recommends.

I have used both with success, but I mostly stick to anti-flicker with EFCS unless it fails me because I like choosing a higher shutter speed as necessary and the camera figures it out to make it work.

I used to shoot with the A7r5 as well. 1/8000 on any camera is very limiting. The electronic shutter options with Canon at 1/16000 with lower tier cameras is definitely viable. I recently got an A7cii, I enjoy it a lot, but I keep a circular polarizer or 3-stop filter handy to work with the 1/4000 shutter while outdoors.

Oct 08, 2023 at 10:39 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

With the RF 85/1.2 DS you will lose some light wide open through about 1.5 or so stops down due to the nature of the apodization effect being strongest at those settings. This might help in very bright condition with managing usable shutter speeds.

As mentioned, R6II has high frequency flicker compensation but it's not automatic. You have to activate that feature and let the camera evaluate the light source for a few seconds, then it will recommend a compatible shutter speed. I found it doesn't make a difference for lights that cycle at around 60 Hz, hence the reason it's called 'high frequency' compensation. It did work for syncing with LED projectors and LED stage lighting (the stage lighting cycled around 1200 Hz. For normal lighting systems that flicker, as suggested, activate standard anti flicker and use EFCS.

Oct 08, 2023 at 11:07 PM

wind30
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

Ok, I guess the main message is the e shutter for r6ii is not really ok for indoor lighting without changing certain settings, something I am trying to avoid. It’s like slapping on a nd with my a7r5 outdoors. I am trying to find a seamless way of using the camera that works on a wide variety of situations.

I guess switching to efcs indoors isn’t too big a deal. I switch betweeen efcs and full mechanical shutter on my a74 and a7r5 all the time,

Oct 08, 2023 at 11:24 PM

matejphoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

I would definitely suggest just getting an ND filter for your Sony.

Having multiple systems will generally slow you down (different interface) and for your candid photography I would not recommend it.

Oct 09, 2023 at 01:29 AM

wind30
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

Is there any detailed comparison between the IBIS of the a7r5 vs r6ii with non-stabilised lens? The ibis on the a7r5 is very good on my sigma 85mm. I can handhold 0.4 secs on a good day. Canon ibis seems to work better when the Lens is optical stabilisation?

Oct 09, 2023 at 05:31 AM

wind30
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

matejphoto wrote:
I would definitely suggest just getting an ND filter for your Sony.

Having multiple systems will generally slow you down (different interface) and for your candid photography I would not recommend it.

I have used multiple system before, Sony and Nikon DSLR. Once the cameras are setup, shooting is relatively straight forward.

Oct 09, 2023 at 05:32 AM

Ludvig83
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

Only cameras with stacked sensors have been in my experience the only ones that can shoot without worrying about anything regarding the e-shutter. If something doesn't go right, then I always switch on anti-flicker mode.

wind30 wrote:
Ok, I guess the main message is the e shutter for r6ii is not really ok for indoor lighting without changing certain settings, something I am trying to avoid. It’s like slapping on a nd with my a7r5 outdoors. I am trying to find a seamless way of using the camera that works on a wide variety of situations.

I guess switching to efcs indoors isn’t too big a deal. I switch betweeen efcs and full mechanical shutter on my a74 and a7r5 all the time,

Oct 09, 2023 at 05:49 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

I'm curious but can't you address this high electronic shutter option with a camera like the a1 to replace your a7r4? Wouldn't it have fewer e-shutter banding concerns under artificial lighting because of the stacked sensor? Or are you primarily interested in the 85/1.2 DS?

I use the R6II with the 28-70/2 and find the IBIS is very effective but have not thoroughly tested it for how low I can hand-hold at 70mm. I don't have any non-IS lenses that cover 85mm and with Canon, if you turn off the lens IS, it also turns off IBIS. I just tried the R6II and 28-70 combo and got consistently good results down to 0.8-1.0 seconds. Not all were perfect, but the vast majority would be usable IMO. At 2.0 seconds there were some signs of slight movement, but downscaled would likely be unnoticeable.

Also note that the R5/6/6II drop to a lower bit depth in e-shutter. I believe it's 12-bits, which could have an impact if you're trying to stay at ISO 100 and wide open in high contrast sunlight conditions. According to Photons to Photos, for the R6II, (link to chart) it's a 2-stop loss at ISO 100 and roughly equalizes in the ISO 800-1600 range.

Oct 09, 2023 at 07:38 AM

flash
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

A magnetic filter setup on your existing 85mm will make adding/removing an ND filter a trivial task. You can leave the filter in place all the time and remove the lens cap when you need it and the cap and filter when you don't. It literally takes no more time than removing a lens cap.

Cheaper than changing systems as well. Unless you're just itching to try a Canon.

Gordon

Oct 09, 2023 at 02:45 PM

Ayoul
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

It seems strange for me to buy another brand just for this reason, and even more strange to consider buying a camera with a non stacked sensor to achieve the intended goal.

A magnetic filter could indeed be a good solution.

And if you really want a reliable e-shutter and are ready to "downgrade" from 60 mpx (A7RV) to 24 mpx (R6II) just to have this, there are plenty of second hand A9 and A9II. You already own one A9, you wouldn't be disoriented.

Oct 09, 2023 at 03:25 PM

tr1957
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

Seems like since the e-shutter is mainly a concern under artificial lighting, and you're not likely to need a shutter speed faster than 1/8000 under normal artifical light, this isn't really a problem. That said, a ND filter seems like a lot simpler approach.

Oct 09, 2023 at 05:04 PM

wind30
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

rscheffler wrote:
I'm curious but can't you address this high electronic shutter option with a camera like the a1 to replace your a7r4? Wouldn't it have fewer e-shutter banding concerns under artificial lighting because of the stacked sensor? Or are you primarily interested in the 85/1.2 DS?

I use the R6II with the 28-70/2 and find the IBIS is very effective but have not thoroughly tested it for how low I can hand-hold at 70mm. I don't have any non-IS lenses that cover 85mm and with Canon, if you turn off the lens IS, it also turns off IBIS. I just tried the...Show more →

A1 is significantly more expensive and it does not have the improved ibis, the lcd screen, the ai af, the focus breathing, focus map, stuff that the a7r5 can give me. I feel a1 and a9 is not a better combo vs a7r5 and a9

Yes, I also want the 85mm f1.2 ds and this is the main mover to switch.

I am just trying to figure out the user experience of the r6ii.

Edited on Oct 09, 2023 at 09:44 PM · View previous versions

Oct 09, 2023 at 08:49 PM

wind30
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

flash wrote:
A magnetic filter setup on your existing 85mm will make adding/removing an ND filter a trivial task. You can leave the filter in place all the time and remove the lens cap when you need it and the cap and filter when you don't. It literally takes no more time than removing a lens cap.

Cheaper than changing systems as well. Unless you're just itching to try a Canon.

Gordon

Some nd filters obstruct my lens hood. U need to keep the filter clean too so it’s not like a lens cap where I just stuff it into my pocket.

I use nd filters screw on types for video but those is really a chore. I am thinking of getting a magnetic nd filters but those are not cheap esp my lens have different filter threads.

I am itching to try Canon too. I think I have tried every brand except Canon.

Oct 09, 2023 at 09:30 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

wind30 wrote:
A1 is significantly more expensive and it does not have the improved ibis, the lcd screen, the ai af, the focus breathing, focus map, stuff that the a7r5 can give me. I feel a1 and a9 is not a better combo vs a7r5 and a9

Yes, I also want the 85mm f1.2 ds and this is the main mover to switch.

I am just trying to figure out the user experience of the r6ii.

I was thinking more replacing the a7r4 with the a1, but yes, it's expensive and you wouldn't get the 85/1.2 DS.

I'm pretty happy with the R6II, but it's still a couple models down from flagship level. One area of concern is the EVF in bright conditions (sunlight). It's just not as bright as the R5 and R3, nor does it show as wide a tonal range, meaning the EVF image often looks like shadows are blocking up when they're actually OK. For this reason I keep the live histogram overlay active in the EVF (the small histogram option). It's also lower resolution than those two cameras but so far hasn't really bothered me that much. It's more that it's not bright enough in full sun conditions.

Oct 09, 2023 at 10:54 PM

crisdesign
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

Magnetic filters are way cheaper than a 6dIi+rf 85l…
I also think that in terms of convenience and usability dealing with 1 system it’s without a doubt better than dealing with multiple ones.

Here’s the summary:
Few hundreds dollars vs a few thousands.
Same controls, settings, batteries and chargers, lens mount and colour profiles + managing magnetic filters vs no magnetic filters and everything else different.

I think your last paragraph gives away the real reason (try a new toy) which is fine, but I don’t think you need other people’s opinion to make up your mind.

Some nd filters obstruct my lens hood. U need to keep the filter clean too so it’s not like a lens cap where I just stuff it into my pocket.

I use nd filters screw on types for video but those is really a chore. I am thinking of getting a magnetic nd filters but those are not cheap esp my lens have different filter threads.

I am itching to try Canon too. I think I have tried every brand except Canon.

Oct 10, 2023 at 04:57 AM

Howie4life
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

What about replacing the A7R5 with a used A1 or even used A9? I don't imagine you need a flip screen to use the 85mm. It sounds like you may want to switch because you like the 85 1.2 lens itself. By the the way, love your images. You're one of the the few people here who photographs just like I do, i.e family trips. I do also do video as well. The only other obvious benefit to going with a canon body that comes straight to mind would be the 28-70 RF lens. You could replace your 24, 35, 50, and 85mm lenses. Of course you would loose a stop of light, and a little reach at the wide and long end, and a little sharpness. But that lens is partially why i have been in 2 systems for the past 2+ years. I own the R5C, A1, and A7rV with the 14mm GM, 24mm GM,50mm 1.2 GM, Samyang 135, and the Tamron 35-150. How much of your kit do you actually take when travelling with the kids?

Oct 10, 2023 at 06:05 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

Howie4life wrote:
The only other obvious benefit to going with a canon body that comes straight to mind would be the 28-70 RF lens. You could replace your 24, 35, 50, and 85mm lenses.

+1

The 28-70 was the first RF lens I bought on transitioning from the EF system. I was skeptical when it was first released in 2018 because of size and weight, but after trying one a few times through CPS, I was won over. It renders much more pleasingly, IMO, than any other 24-70 style zoom I've used. At each focal length equivalent to a fast prime, it simply looks like a fast prime with great, generally smooth and neutral rendering. I still keep the 85/1.4L IS and picked up the RF 135/1.8 but for general candid people work where I don't want or need to be farther back, the 28-70 sees the most use.

But sure, the 85/1.2 DS is a different lens and one I'd like to explore, too.

Oct 10, 2023 at 07:18 AM

3catsinky
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · switching from a7r5 to canon r6ii

sounds like your better off going the Nikon Z8 route (unless you add a cheap ND filter) you get the lovely Z 85F1.2, and you can keep all your sony glass :-) I have an A9 for sale, if you decide to add another one.

Oct 10, 2023 at 08:20 AM

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