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Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

bernardl
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

1bwana1 wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion Luka. But I fear a full thread dedicated to that would be even more upseting to many.

Steve

You could start by telling us what lenses you are talking about?

Cheers,
Bernard

Oct 26, 2023 at 08:05 AM

1bwana1
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

bernardl wrote:
You could start by telling us what lenses you are talking about?

Cheers,
Bernard

Let's try it this way Bernard. I will post a link to a post I made regarding this in another forum using just one current lens that you are also a fan of I believe. It has two images in different styles with slightly different intent , but both shot with the intent of having round smooth Bokeh balls.

If seeing an image made with a system that starts with an "S" somehow offends you, I suggest you don't click the link.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1690968/283#16372276

Steve

Oct 26, 2023 at 08:36 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Can you show some shots taken from portrait distances, i.e., about 2-3 meters, to avoid the exaggerated perspective of a 50mm shot with a tight framing (larger nose etc.)? Please no cropping of the image if you want to show there are no cat's eyes, then don't crop those areas out where they would occur. Also, use the lens wide open.

Vignetting tends to increase towards longer distances.

Oct 26, 2023 at 09:27 AM

AcuteShadows
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

nhmorgan wrote:
Unfortunately it doesn’t work out that way. Lenses with LoCA show purple fringing even if the stars are perfectly in focus. It’s because it’s a high contrast area near the focal plane.

Of course, lenses that show LoCA might show meaningful lateral chromatic aberrations as well (technically, it will always show a tiny bit if the angle of the light cones of different colors are equal). But this is not a given, and as of now, we just know that the Plena has a bit of longitudinal chromatic aberration.

The cameralabs test for coma shows very little chromatic aberration.

Oct 26, 2023 at 09:32 AM

Buckeye2604
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

1bwana1 wrote:
Let's try it this way Bernard. I will post a link to a post I made regarding this in another forum using just one current lens that you are also a fan of I believe. It has two images in different styles with slightly different intent , but both shot with the intent of having round smooth Bokeh balls.

If seeing an image made with a system that starts with an "S" somehow offends you, I suggest you don't click the link.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1690968/283#16372276

Steve

So you stopped down from 1.2 to f2 and cropped the image to achieve a similar look. I think we were all expecting SOOC images. But that's an interesting approach.

Oct 26, 2023 at 10:18 AM

1bwana1
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

ilkka_nissila wrote:
Can you show some shots taken from portrait distances, i.e., about 2-3 meters, to avoid the exaggerated perspective of a 50mm shot with a tight framing (larger nose etc.)? Please no cropping of the image if you want to show there are no cat's eyes, then don't crop those areas out where they would occur. Also, use the lens wide open.

Vignetting tends to increase towards longer distances.

The portrait is cropped to 4X3 only, but the lights didn't go out that far anyway. It is the format that the subject wanted. But there are a good number of lenses that with a crop will have very round Bokeh balls out to the edge. You can do some tests with your lenses easily.

The other image is not cropped at all. It is full frame, as shot. That is the shot I made to see how much of a crop it would take to get pretty much complexly round ball. As you can see it is not much.

I did the experiments that I wanted to in order to test that I could get the effect I wanted to if needed. I think I can. It may be worth it for others to experiment with their lens collections with this in mind. That knowledge may come in useful at some point.

This is not something I did to compete with or diminish what Nikon has accomplished with the Plena. Very much the opposite in fact. It was work to learn my lenses, and develop techniques to get a look I like. It was inspired by the Plena, not a challenge to it. Though I am sure there are those on the Nikon thread who will see that way.

Below is the closest I have to your request in an uncropped image. I measured and the distances. She is about 5 feet and the lights at about 9 feet. As you can see, the bokeh balls don't go out to the full edge. But as far as they do go out they are very round and smooth. This was by design as I knew we were outputting into a 4X3 format which is what she needed. Judging by the other test shot I posted, I am confident the balls would still be smooth and mostly round all the way to the edges.

Edited on Oct 26, 2023 at 12:38 PM · View previous versions

Oct 26, 2023 at 11:46 AM

1bwana1
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Buckeye2604 wrote:
So you stopped down from 1.2 to f2 and cropped the image to achieve a similar look. I think we were all expecting SOOC images. But that's an interesting approach.

Only on the portrait image. I wanted to stop down to 1.8 like the Plena, but the DOF was too narrow for the portrait I was making so I went to 2.0 for that. The plan to crop was from the beginning. It was meant to simulate having an enlarged image circle like the Plena does. That is a form of built in cropping of the image circle. So yest that was a part of the plan.

But as you can see from the second image, on this lens cropping is not even really required to achieve very smooth, rounded bokeh balls. That second image in not coped at all. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

Edited on Oct 26, 2023 at 12:05 PM · View previous versions

Oct 26, 2023 at 11:57 AM

1bwana1
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Oct 26, 2023 at 12:03 PM

Buckeye2604
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

1bwana1 wrote:
Only on the portrait image. I wanted to stop down to 1.8 like the Plena, but the DOF was too narrow for the portrait I was making so I went to 2.0 for that. The plan to crop was from the beginning. It was meant to simulate having an enlarged image circle like the Plena does. That is a form of built in cropping of the image circle. So yest that was a part of the plan.

But as you can see from the second image, on this lens cropping is not even really required to achieve very smooth, rounded bokeh...Show more →
I was surprised by that as well. Those adjustments would be a good way to change the character of the bokeh if you had that look in mind.
I do have to ask, are you positive the second picture was at 1.2? It looks eerily similar to lenstip’s 1.8 bokeh samples and you can see some polygonal shape where wide open should be perfectly round. For example, here is cameralabs example of f/1.2 with the 50GM. I’m trying to understand why such a difference?

Feel free to PM me. Don’t want to derail this image thread any more.

Edit: I see your response below. Thanks for double checking and I appreciate the transparency.

Edited on Oct 26, 2023 at 01:31 PM · View previous versions

Oct 26, 2023 at 12:22 PM

1bwana1
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Buckeye2604 wrote:
I was surprised by that as well. Those adjustments would be a good way to change the character of the bokeh if you had that look in mind.
I do have to ask, are you positive the second picture was at 1.2? It looks eerily similar to lenstip’s 1.8 bokeh samples and you can see some polygonal shape where wide open should be perfectly round. For example, here is cameralabs example of f/1.2 with the 50GM. I’m trying to understand why such a difference?

https://www.cameralabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/sony-fe-50mm-f1-2-gm-review-12-1536x864.jpg

Feel free to PM me. Don’t want to derail this image thread any more.

I checked the EXIF box when I posted but for some reason they are no longer showing in my posts so I manually entered them. Anyone know why?

(Edit, I checked in LR the full frame shot I posted was done at f/1.8 to be the same as the Plena also double checked in LR. It confirms f/1.8, for the one shot, and f/2 for the portrait. I went and changed my linked post. When I have time I will do a 1.2 test)

Maybe it is a distance to subject, and lights thing. I was just trying to create an effect and it came out better than I expected on the first teat so I was done.. Maybe distances need to be taken into account when implementing this technique?

Oct 26, 2023 at 12:34 PM

cvrle59
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

I wouldn't be surprised if some mfgs implement AI into their cameras to round bokeh balls by software, just like focus breathing...

Oct 26, 2023 at 01:18 PM

Vento
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Wouldn't that be a job for Sony's AI specialists?!
But then do the onion rings right away with the 50/1.2 GM and the 135/1.8 GM........

Sry, but I could not resist.

In any case, I am not convinced and see the Plena as unrivaled in this point.

50/1.2 GM (source Camerlabs review)

135/1.8 GM (source Cameralbas review)

Oct 26, 2023 at 01:30 PM

Buckeye2604
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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Vento wrote:
Wouldn't that be a job for Sony's AI specialists?!
But then do the onion rings right away with the 50/1.2 GM and the 135/1.8 GM........

Sry, but I could not resist.

In any case, I am not convinced and see the Plena as unrivaled in this point.

50/1.2 GM (source Camerlabs review)
https://www.cameralabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/sony-a1-sample-image-DSC06828.jpg

135/1.8 GM (source Cameralbas review)
https://www.cameralabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/sony-fe-135mm-f1-8-gm-sample-DSC00071.jpg
https://www.cameralabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/sony-fe-135mm-f1-8-gm-sample-DSC00252.jpg

I wasn’t trying to start another pissing match. The three lenses are all exceptional and the Plena is definitely unique compared to its 135 peers.

Oct 26, 2023 at 01:36 PM

Vento
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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Sorry if that was too aggressive, basically not my style and not my topic, the brand wars category.
I don't want to add unnecessary fuel to the fire here.
Anyone who knows my posts here will quickly notice that I actually stay out of such topics.

But if you go so far and deny that the Plena is setting new standards when it comes to optical vignetting and claim, "There are other lenses out there that have those nice smooth rounded Bokeh balls out to the edges.", then there has to be a suitable answer.
I'm also not convinced by cropped images where the lights are additionally arranged centrally.
I think the cameralabs samples speak a clear language.
I never said that the Sony lenses weren't also outstanding, we just shouldn't make a Plena out of them where there isn't one.

Oct 26, 2023 at 01:45 PM

bernardl
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

I love my 50mm f1.2 GM but it takes very careful planning to have it render bokeh balls round in terms of the distance btwn subject and background,…

Besides I use it a f1.2 most of the time for subject isolation while a 135mm f1.8 still has enough subject isolation at f2.8 when the bokeh bals are absolutely perfect whatever the situation.

So it IMHO not an example of lens rendering like the Plena. But there may be others, Steve any proposal?

Cheers,
Bernard

Oct 26, 2023 at 04:44 PM

1bwana1
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

bernardl wrote:
I love my 50mm f1.2 GM but it takes very careful planning to have it render bokeh balls round in terms of the distance btwn subject and background,…

Cheers,
Bernard

That was the exact point of my exercise. There is a technique I can use my existing equipment to accomplish that. I think in the scope of my goal it was a success.

I made it clear in my posts that this was not done to challenge any aspect of the Plena as some keep trying to make it.

Edited on Oct 27, 2023 at 12:46 AM · View previous versions

Oct 26, 2023 at 04:51 PM

bernardl
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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Right... your initial comment that other lenses were able to produce round bokeh balls had nothing to do with the confusion...

Cheers,
Bernard

Oct 26, 2023 at 05:23 PM

1bwana1
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

bernardl wrote:
Right... your initial comment that other lenses were able to produce round bokeh balls had nothing to do with the confusion...

Cheers,
Bernard

But I was able to produce round smooth bokeh balls with other lenses and posted proof of that.

This image below is full frame no crop no post except Auto in LR. Are those not smooth round bokeh balls edge to edge? Yes there are some distortions at the very edge but the Plena also has that to some degree.

I also said that the techniques I was experimenting with didn't achieve the full results of the Plena. Why so defensive?

Where is the confusion in that?

Oct 26, 2023 at 05:46 PM

Alistair1
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

Vento wrote:
Wouldn't that be a job for Sony's AI specialists?!
But then do the onion rings right away with the 50/1.2 GM and the 135/1.8 GM........

Sry, but I could not resist.

Oct 26, 2023 at 11:23 PM

SiMuMe
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · Nikon Z 135mm f/1.8 S Plena Image Thread

This thread will still be around in 5 years time and y'all going to look at this season and be embarrassed by what you were arguing about. It seems impossible but please try and move on from this.

Oct 27, 2023 at 01:22 AM

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