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Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

Mr. Protocol
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

I have, as I assume many other people do, a number of non-functional Canon LP-E4 battery packs. The circuit boards in these packs are probably still good; it's the NiMH cells that have Died The Death.

Does anyone know of a company that's willing to rebuild these packs? I see all sorts of companies willing to re-cell handheld power tool battery packs, but I haven't come across anyone who's re-celling smaller packs such as camera packs. Perhaps someone who rebuilds packs for commercial hand-held radios would be willing to give it a whack?

Anybody got any leads?

Oct 04, 2023 at 08:37 PM

Choderboy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

They are lithium ion cells. 3 x 18650 cells. 18650 are the most common cylindrical cells and used in the vast majority of power tools. Power tool cells will be 'high drain', ie cells suited for high current. Cameras don't need these but can use them.
Simple, call and speak to one of the companies you mentioned, now you know what cells are needed.

A solution that usually works is to buy third party replacement pack. Then fit the original Canon end piece (with the lock mechanism) to the new pack. Often the end piece of third party packs are not a perfect fit which will compromise weather sealing.

Oct 04, 2023 at 08:49 PM

Mr. Protocol
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

I was hoping to find somebody out there who had already found and used such a service.

Oct 04, 2023 at 11:03 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

There used to be such services back in the 1D/1DII days for those batteries, but then third party knockoff options became available. I think the availability of such LP-E4 knockoffs is probably be a reason there may not be anyone doing rebuilds. I've used cameras that take the LP-E4/4N/19 since 2007 and can't recall seeing any posts about such options.

Good luck and let us know if you find someone.

Oct 04, 2023 at 11:10 PM

armd
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

It's probably less expensive and time consuming to build new rather than rebuild. I suspect that the market and margin are not there though if you find a source, let us know.

Oct 05, 2023 at 07:18 AM

MintMar
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

Li-Ion batteries are harder to rebuild unless one has a specialized repair shop for that.

I did rebuild one NiMH 1D Mk2 battery myself, but that was much easier as there were basically AA NiMHs inside. I replaced them with Eneloops and that battery pack worked ages compared to original ones or knockoffs. I did buy some knockoffs later then, I didn't want to explain anything at the airport security, since my refurb wasn't nice inside and held together only by adhesive tape

Oct 05, 2023 at 07:48 AM

CharleyL
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

I fail to see the reason why you would want to rebuild a Canon battery when Canon no longer offers that model battery. There are several sources of NON OEM batteries out there that offer good replacements, some even decoded so the camera doesn't see that it's not an "Official Canon Battery". If your reason for keeping the Canon case is for warranty purposes, the camera is way out of warranty and a modified/rebuilt Canon battery isn't likely as good as a properly manufactured new battery, since the rebuilder has to saw open the case and glue it back together in less than perfect assembly procedures.

I have been buying and using decoded batteries from BM Electronics through Amazon for my Canon cameras for the past 5 years without a single problem. Two batteries and a double USB charger cost less than a single Canon battery. These batteries are accepted by my cameras as if they are Canon Batteries and the battery charge level displays on the camera screen too.

Charley

Oct 05, 2023 at 08:49 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

MintMar wrote:
Li-Ion batteries are harder to rebuild unless one has a specialized repair shop for that.

I did rebuild one NiMH 1D Mk2 battery myself, but that was much easier as there were basically AA NiMHs inside. I replaced them with Eneloops and that battery pack worked ages compared to original ones or knockoffs. I did buy some knockoffs later then, I didn't want to explain anything at the airport security, since my refurb wasn't nice inside and held together only by adhesive tape

Haha, I can imagine what you'd go through, particularly in European airports where they tend to be more meticulous when screening photo equipment (so many times I had to remove the caps from every single lens for the agent to look through).

Lately here in Canada, if something gets a screener's attention, it's nearly always the 72Wh power brick I travel with. It's literally like a small brick and must really look great in the x-rays.

That's interesting about the Eneloops! Wish I'd known it back then. And it charged properly with the Canon charger? I guess so....

Oct 05, 2023 at 12:34 PM

MintMar
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

rscheffler wrote:
That's interesting about the Eneloops! Wish I'd known it back then. And it charged properly with the Canon charger? I guess so....

I think I was only able to use the eneloops on 1D2 because I shot it for so long. Mine was 1D2N. I shot it until 2014 or so, after a bad encounter with 1D3 which should have been working well (high serial no), but wasn't, and couldn't AF where 1D2N could. In the end I bought 100D in 2014 for video, but found out that it AFd as accurate, maybe slower than 1D2N, and 6D in 2017 or so, which was somewhere between 100D and 1D2N in AF performance, and I put the Old Brick to the shelf, because its sensor was way too long in the tooth in the ISO realm, and I wanted the full frame.

Eneloops fare much better than the early NiMH rechargeables. It seems to me that Eneloops either age slower, or are somehow designed in a way that they still provide enough voltage until their current is available.

The early rechargeables were losing the voltage sooner and sooner as they aged and devices refused work with them further, although they would provide current for e.g. lightbulb, or when recharged, the discharge took quite long as they weren't really empty. This was very annoying.

The eneloops I used were normal non-industrial ones, so they were a bit longer than the industrial ones with no plus button, but I was able to fit them in somehow. It was a PITA to solder them though, but in the end I bought a special soldering liquid for stainless steel and then the solder stuck.

Yes, the old NC-E2 charger was charging the refurbished battery with no problem - as I mentioned, the battery then worked very long, compared especially to knockoffs, which started to lose capacity quite soon. But I still have those knockoffs, maybe one day I will have to refurbish them too if my enelooped pack dies somehow.

But it's not like I still shoot a 1D Mk2 camera. Very occassionally I turn it on when I want to see the old ring of fire. The RF cameras should have a ring of fire emulation mode!

Oct 05, 2023 at 03:31 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

Brings back memories. I think I had a few refurbished but can't remember where. And also bought some knockoffs, which as you mentioned, didn't last very long. I still have a 1D and IDIIN but haven't charged the batteries for years, so doubt they'll hold a charge long. Recently sold my 1DX and 1DXII and have fully transitioned to RF. No looking back!

Oct 05, 2023 at 04:00 PM

MintMar
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

rscheffler wrote:
Brings back memories. I think I had a few refurbished but can't remember where. And also bought some knockoffs, which as you mentioned, didn't last very long. I still have a 1D and IDIIN but haven't charged the batteries for years, so doubt they'll hold a charge long.

I tried my 1D2N with the eneloop battery, just the body, both still worked.

Recently sold my 1DX and 1DXII and have fully transitioned to RF. No looking back!

I bought R6/2 two weeks ago, with the intent to get awesomely focusing 6D

I.e. getting the converter and using all my legacy glass and flashes. But I'm not putting my two 6Ds away, sometimes it is good to have two cameras with two different lenses ready. Or a beater camera.

So far I am hampered by the software a bit, I'm on Linux and RawTherapee does read a CR3 file, but not its exif, so it is quite unusable yet. I'm waiting for the new update, hopefully soon.

Oct 05, 2023 at 04:20 PM

Mr. Protocol
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

Rebuilding Canon Li-Ion packs such as the LP-E4 oneself is not simple, as the packs have an internal circuit board which must be preserved and re-used. The cells are spot-welded to this board, which is not a simple procedure.

Yes, there are third-party replacements, but reported success with these has been spotty. So far as I know, no one has ever taken the time or trouble to do a survey and publish the results.

I have found two leads:

mtobattery.com has rebuilt LP-E4 packs in the past, and still does them at $40 per. I'm sending my dead ones to them.

batteriesamerica.com does not rebuild packs, but does produce their own higher-capacity replacements. Because they have a larger business than just this, and because they are not located in China, they are more likely to be reliable. Check out:
https://batteriesamerica.com/products/bp-cpn400mx-11-1v-3400mah-high-capacity-li-ion-battery-replaces-canon-lp-e4n?_pos=2&_sid=5b1badfc7&_ss=r
https://batteriesamerica.com/products/bp-cpn400mc-11-1v-2600mah-li-ion-battery-replaces-canon-lp-e4n?_pos=1&_sid=5b1badfc7&_ss=r

These batteries can be charged on an LC-E4 but an LC-E19 or equivalent would probably be better. I'm not sure the firmware in the LC-E4 will charge bigger batteries (like the actual Canon LP-E19!) to full capacity. I've just bought one of those from KEH. I ordered two of the 3400MAh batteries and can report back later on their serviceworthiness.

Oct 05, 2023 at 07:12 PM

melcat
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

Mr. Protocol wrote:
I'm not sure the firmware in the LC-E4 will charge bigger batteries (like the actual Canon LP-E19!) to full capacity. I've just bought one of those from KEH.

The LP-E19 cannot even be fitted to the LC-E4 charger – there is a lockout on the battery case preventing it from sliding home onto the contacts. It can be fitted to and power the 1Ds Mk III.

Oct 05, 2023 at 08:10 PM

Choderboy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

It can be fitted with a tiny amount of dexterity.
Moot point.
Once fitted, charger puts on a light show.
Not being pedantic for the sake of it, I can't be the only one who attempts to bypass the lockout so worth mentioning the light show is normal.

melcat wrote:
The LP-E19 cannot even be fitted to the LC-E4 charger – there is a lockout on the battery case preventing it from sliding home onto the contacts. It can be fitted to and power the 1Ds Mk III.

Oct 05, 2023 at 08:45 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

Mr. Protocol wrote:
Rebuilding Canon Li-Ion packs such as the LP-E4 oneself is not simple, as the packs have an internal circuit board which must be preserved and re-used. The cells are spot-welded to this board, which is not a simple procedure.

Yes, there are third-party replacements, but reported success with these has been spotty. So far as I know, no one has ever taken the time or trouble to do a survey and publish the results.

I have found two leads:

mtobattery.com has rebuilt LP-E4 packs in the past, and still does them at $40 per. I'm sending my dead ones to them.

batteriesamerica.com...Show more →

I hope that you can get the batteries in these packs replaced. The BP-511's, for example, apparently aren't manufactured anymore by Canon either. Of course you need one for older cameras, 15+ year old batteries aren't likely to work too well. I've had varying success using 3rd party, of course original Canon batteries are about the same price as older bodies.

It looks like these batteries are all 2 or 3 li ion cells, except for the older 1D series battery that apparently had 8 AA rechargeables. It shouldn't be too much different from tool battery packs I'd think. I'm hesitant to try it given that if you goof up on li ion it could explode.

Found a teardown of BP-511's, has two 18500's IIRC.

Oct 05, 2023 at 10:54 PM

MintMar
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

Mr. Protocol wrote:
Rebuilding Canon Li-Ion packs such as the LP-E4 oneself is not simple, as the packs have an internal circuit board which must be preserved and re-used.

There was some very simple circuitry in the old NiMH pack too, it was not exactly just an AA battery holder like the battery grips in the past used to have as an alternative to Li-Ions.

Oct 06, 2023 at 05:55 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

AmbientMike wrote:
I hope that you can get the batteries in these packs replaced. The BP-511's, for example, apparently aren't manufactured anymore by Canon either. Of course you need one for older cameras, 15+ year old batteries aren't likely to work too well. I've had varying success using 3rd party, of course original Canon batteries are about the same price as older bodies.

It looks like these batteries are all 2 or 3 li ion cells, except for the older 1D series battery that apparently had 8 AA rechargeables. It shouldn't be too much different from tool battery packs I'd think. I'm hesitant...Show more →

But there are a ton of third party BP-511 options available to keep you going with older cameras. Same will be the case with LP-E6, etc. It's the more obscure batteries that will become difficult to find as time goes on, like for the older 1D series. Another option is a dummy battery with an external battery solution, if you really have no other choice. IIRC, the older 1D series cameras shipped with an AC adapter and such a dummy battery, so it should be possible to hack a battery operated solution.

Oct 06, 2023 at 10:27 AM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

MintMar wrote:
There was some very simple circuitry in the old NiMH pack too, it was not exactly just an AA battery holder like the battery grips in the past used to have as an alternative to Li-Ions.

The biggest problem I'd see is the custom construction of the battery, the circuitry is typically made for it and unless you can find a direct equivalent, you might have problems later. There is no standard for electrical features of Li-Ions and their shapes. The OEMs must love it to death.

Idk I was getting the innards of 18650 charger off ebay just had to solder leads to it then used an old wall wart. I guess some guy in China sat in his apartment and programmed the microcontroller. Cost about $1-2, so between <$5 for good 18650's and the circuitry it shouldn't cost much to make a good battery. Irritating the 3rd party often aren't better than they are

Oct 06, 2023 at 11:51 AM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

rscheffler wrote:
But there are a ton of third party BP-511 options available to keep you going with older cameras. Same will be the case with LP-E6, etc. It's the more obscure batteries that will become difficult to find as time goes on, like for the older 1D series. Another option is a dummy battery with an external battery solution, if you really have no other choice. IIRC, the older 1D series cameras shipped with an AC adapter and such a dummy battery, so it should be possible to hack a battery operated solution.

I've used a lot of 3rd party, can be fine especially since it's not too terribly cold here overall. Some you can't tell the difference most you can, I'll check out the ones @CharleyL@ mentioned above. Hoping B&H had some qc on theirs the last rebel one I bought expanded though

Oct 06, 2023 at 11:54 AM

mcoons
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Is anyone rebuilding out-of-production camera battery packs?

I've been buying third-party batteries from Wasabi Power. They have batteries for almost all the older Canon cameras like the Canon 1D and 5D. I use a couple of Wasabi batteries for my 1D Mark IIn that I like to use for fun. I recently took over 500 photos at a youth soccer match on the battery. The only issue is the weird latching system Canon used on the original 1D series. It can be hit or miss but I usually save my old Canon batteries and switch them out if I have trouble. I also have a couple for my 5D that are in good shape after three years.

https://www.wasabipower.com/pages/canon-camera-batteries

Oct 06, 2023 at 12:52 PM

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