Archive 2023 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspec...

fotoman-81
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

All -

Would like some thoughts on utilizing an 85mm and 135mm lens for college basketball. Have full courtside access, just after a different optical profile from a 70-200, as seems everyone and their dog has one these days. Already have a 300/2.8 for high-angle work.

Looking at a used copy of the 1996 EF 135mm f2.0, EF 85mm f1.4L... perhaps that inexpensive 85mm f1.8 USM?

Would be shot with 1DX's exclusively (Mark II's, most likely).

Appreciate any words from professionals who've used these primes for basketball!

Sep 29, 2023 at 06:29 PM

johnctharp
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

fotoman-81 wrote:
just after a different optical profile from a 70-200

There's a reason for everyone rocking a 70-200/2.8: AF beats any non-super-tele prime, and it comes with IS, on top of compositional flexibility.

The primes you mentioned aren't known for slow AF, really, and they're faster than say Nikon's equivalents - but they're still in the minor leagues when compared to a proper professional telezoom.

Sep 29, 2023 at 08:31 PM

Ferrophot
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

What John said. There is a reason why certain things are popular, it's because they are better than the alternatives. I don't see why replacing a high quality x3 zoom with two primes for sport is a good way to go. The benefits of wider aperture are minimal, and the versatility of the zoom far outweighs any IQ benefit.

Sep 29, 2023 at 08:50 PM

Dragonfire
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

The 85L 1.4 would make an excellent compliment to your 70-200L and 300L to isolate players at f1.4 in action situations.

I used the 85L 1.2 on my 1DsIII for basketball under the net and it was a kick.

The 70-200L was on my 1D IV.

BTW - I only shot the 85L at f1.2 and tracked the player in servo to keep the lens from having to refocus.

Edited on Sep 30, 2023 at 07:26 AM · View previous versions

Sep 30, 2023 at 06:43 AM

TomSchriefer
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

Full disclosure. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a professional photographer. My wife taught Chem/Phys at a local high school for several years. I was able to get up close to the action at hockey, basketball, football, volleyball, and polo events. I started with a 1DIV, and Sigma 70-200mm OS HSM. Up really close, my lens was too long. I opted to carry a 35 IS, 85 1.8, 135 2 with one of them mounted on a second body. In a word, cumbersome. Switching cameras and/or lenses takes time, which means missed shots. After one attempt at the lens/camera nightmare, I went back to 1DIV and 70-200. Perhaps a pro, with an assistant, would do better. It did not work for me.

Sep 30, 2023 at 07:19 AM

sebjmatthews
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

Short answer: stick with the zoom unless you can also justify having multiple bodies. No sport is going to pause while you swap lenses.

If for whatever reason you do go ahead with the primes, the 85mm f/1.4 is probably going to be your best bet as far as focus and optical quality goes. (Whether the focal length is suitable is something only you can know, really; we don't know exactly where you'll be sat.) It's a really great technical lens in every regard and is one of the few 85s which has ever actually impressed me. I'm just not entirely convinced that an 85 will be suitable for your purposes.

Forget the 85m f/1.8; the similar 100mm f/2 focuses much better, is actually a little brighter, and has better technical optical quality. (In fact, the 100 was the original lens, and then Canon clumsily modified it to turn it into the 85; every part of it is optimised for the 100, not the 85.) It actually is the fastest-focusing EF lens Canon ever made, at least when you put it on the bodies which can deliver full voltage. (Yes, faster than any of the Ls; it doesn't have to move much glass, after all.) Though it still has a lot of fringing and generally I wouldn't recommend it for professional sports work. Great portrait lens, though.

The 135mm f/2 focuses faster than the 85mm f/1.4, but not by much, and the lack of IS means the focus system has a tougher time being accurate, especially as light levels drop. Great lens and can be a great sports lens, but there's a good reason why most people use a 70-200 f/2.8 instead.

So, again, stick with the zoom.

Sep 30, 2023 at 09:13 AM

Robin Smith
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

70-200m is best, no question. Of course an 85 or 135 can be used, but you'll always be changing lenses and 135mm may not be long enough for some of the time. I used a 135mm f2 when the light got really, really dark on occasion, but 70-200mm is bread and butter.

Oct 02, 2023 at 09:52 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

For basketball the 85 and 135 would address different areas of the court. I feel 135 would be too long for under-basket action unless maybe you're in a corner or shooting from around the center line, while 85 would probably be better from the baseline/endline closer to the basket.

Trying these lenses would probably be more appropriate if you have the flexibility of doing so without the absolute need to get the broadest range of coverage during games for a client. I'm guessing you've already shot a fair amount of basketball with a 70-200? If so, perhaps look through your photos with that lens to figure out the most commonly used focal lengths and where on the court the better photos corresponded. This should give you a clearer idea, based on your own use, where either of these focal lengths might be useful.

I agree it's good to mix things up from time to time for the sake of experimentation and learning whether you've been overlooking usable alternatives. But as others have noted already, 70-200 provides a more flexible single lens solution for coverage of at least the near half of the court. Given that 70-200 already covers 85 and 135, will these faster primes shot wide open really provide a noticeably different 'signature' look to images? Photographers might notice shallower depth of field, but the average person? It's probably more a matter of finding 'new' interesting angles, if that even exists anymore for BB considering how thoroughly the sport has been photographed for decades by many very creative photographers, rather than slightly changing something that you've already been doing with a zoom. In this respect, if the look you're getting from a 70-200 is a bit boring, 85 and 135 won't really create that much more impact simply by slotting them in instead while continuing to cover games as you would with a 70-200.

Oct 02, 2023 at 11:57 AM

Goingbaroque2
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

For basketball I like using the 300/2.8 the best. For the team that you're covering, when you're sitting under or behind the basket, you're able to get lots of balls and faces together when they're initiating offense (coming towards you), and you're also able to get faces when they're on the other end on defense.

Oct 02, 2023 at 09:37 PM

JimmyJames
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 85mm and 135mm's as alternative to 70-200? (Basketball/editorial perspective)

When I was a beginner, I used the 85mm f1.8 with a lot of success on a 1D or 1D Mark IIn. The light was really poor way back then. It can give a different perspective that typical zoom combos produce.

Oct 08, 2023 at 09:35 PM


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