Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

3 4 end

Archive 2023 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

Desmolicious
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

Ok, we got three sales so far! Me, Allen and Tommmi!

Sep 30, 2023 at 02:32 PM

retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

Desmolicious wrote:
Ok, we got three sales so far! Me, Allen and Tommmi!

It will be a limited number here on FM where the focus is in the majority on digital. Post it on Leica Camera forum, and there will be a lot more hyped up about it for sure. Especially the ones with pockets willing to pay for it.

Sep 30, 2023 at 04:09 PM

flash
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

The M-A exists because it needs no battery to operate at all the available shutter speeds.

Since all digital cameras require a battery to exist and metering is done off the sensor anyway, it makes little sense to me.

Then again I don't get the hipsters fascination with film. I shot fil professionally for 20 years and I'm totally, completely done.

I would buy an M11D though.

Gordon

Sep 30, 2023 at 04:58 PM

Valorin
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

Desmolicious wrote:
For those who say it would not be for them and a meter is great - 100% understand and of course it is.

But why does Leica sell the meterless M-A alongside the MP film cameras? Obviously there is a market. This would be that in digital form. And there would be takers just as there are takers for the M-A.

I guess to me the point of the M-A isn't just to omit the meter for fun, it's to create a purely mechanical battery-less M camera that results in the inability to have a light meter. In a digital scenario, you'd be leaving out the meter intentionally, not as a consequence of some other design decision. It would be interesting to see how many people would want that though.

Sep 30, 2023 at 06:02 PM

RexGig0
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

If there were to be a truly noticeable cost savings, I would be interested. If this mid-Twenty-Twenties M-D-like camera were to cost as much as an M11, well, no, thanks.

I am not, however, without uncertainty. A fully-manual camera can function without a battery, if the image is captured on film, and the meter, if present, is not used. A digital sensor would require a battery, so, I might find this to be neither fish nor fowl, so, may not like it.

I can presently use a Nikon FM3A camera, with no batteries inserted, to experience truly manual function. Quite nice, really.

Sep 30, 2023 at 07:55 PM

theHUN
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

If I need a bare-bones, fail-safe, fully-manual experience, I just take a pinhole camera.

Sep 30, 2023 at 09:06 PM

Desmolicious
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

theHUN wrote:
If I need a bare-bones, fail-safe, fully-manual experience, I just take a pinhole camera.

And pray for sun.

Sep 30, 2023 at 09:44 PM

Thury
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

RexGig0 wrote:
If there were to be a truly noticeable cost savings, I would be interested. If this mid-Twenty-Twenties M-D-like camera were to cost as much as an M11, well, no, thanks.

The problem is that much of the cost of production of a Leica M is in the viewfinder/rangefinder optical/mechanical part and the tight tolerances it imposes on the rest of the body. Removing part of the electronics will save little money on the cost of production and add the costs of managing a small series camera. Basically, I fear that - whatever the brand displayed on the body - a reasonably low cost, good quality, M-mount camera would sport an EVF, no rangefinder, and be built in Japan by a major manufacturer.

RexGig0 wrote:
I am not, however, without uncertainty. A fully-manual camera can function without a battery, if the image is captured on film, and the meter, if present, is not used. A digital sensor would require a battery, so, I might find this to be neither fish nor fowl, so, may not like it.

I can presently use a Nikon FM3A camera, with no batteries inserted, to experience truly manual function. Quite nice, really.

I kept a Leica M4-P precisely for this purpose : no batteries and truly manual camera.

Sep 30, 2023 at 11:04 PM

pmeheut
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

Desmolicious wrote:
But why does Leica sell the meterless M-A alongside the MP film cameras? Obviously there is a market. This would be that in digital form. And there would be takers just as there are takers for the M-A.

I'm not so sure. Maybe the buyers for the M-A are not the same as the one interested in digital M even if there is some overlap.
The M-A is about nostalgia somehow and I wonder how many people buy them as a daily photographic tool.

Also, it costs next to nothing for Leica to build an M-A starting from the MP. They just have to remove a few things.
In fact, the could sell the MP with no battery inside, a sealed battery compartment door and find a market for it.

Oct 01, 2023 at 12:12 AM

RexGig0
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

Thury wrote:
The problem is that much of the cost of production of a Leica M is in the viewfinder/rangefinder optical/mechanical part and the tight tolerances it imposes on the rest of the body. Removing part of the electronics will save little money on the cost of production and add the costs of managing a small series camera. Basically, I fear that - whatever the brand displayed on the body - a reasonably low cost, good quality, M-mount camera would sport an EVF, no rangefinder, and be built in Japan by a major manufacturer.

True; I would/should not expect this concept M to actually be a “budget” M camera.

Oct 01, 2023 at 06:05 AM

FrozenInTime
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

My basic M design would consist of a full frame 24 Mpixel sensor, electronic shutter and EVF.
This combination would half the cost of entry into the M system.

SL2-S I hear you say, but I've tried that, great IQ, but it is too large and heavy.
For <28mm wide, long and specialized lenses, the RF is redundant, so EVF only is preferred.
This EVF-M is thus also the missing small camera compliment for rangefinder M owners.

I am lucky enough to have a M10 and film Ms, but feel Leica is moving in the wrong direction with the M11 with an unnecessary high pixel count. This loads the system with cost and pushes lens designs to higher cost and complexity to support the higher resolution and focus calibration.

Oct 01, 2023 at 06:46 AM

airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

I bought the original Monochrom in 2012 for just as much of what it didn't have as what it did have. I went all digital M in 2015 (even for my pro work) because I was tired of all the automation on DSLRs and of course now mirrorless. All that stuf I didn't want or need on my cameras. I went out of film kicking and screaming. I was an old darkroom rat. My pro work (clients) and divorce (loosing my darkroom) forced a big change. I had to go digital. I have shot both professionally and for my personal work with view cameras, all kinds of medium format cameras, Leica, Nikon, Canon (still have my F-1s and wish now I would have kept at least one of my 500 C/Ms). And if Leica M would have been a digital option when I went digital in 2015 I probably would have went to that right away.

I never liked shooting with DSLRs. I got to a point where I dreaded picking them up. Leica M digital was/is a real alternative to everything else out there. And the Monochrom was even a step further away from the herd. I actually enjoyed shooting again. I have been shooting all manual for over 40 years. It is fast, easier and I get what I need better when I am in total control of the process. Thats me and to make a long story short it is nice to have a real alternative to choose from and Leica M digital is that option. And a digital camera like a film M-A for me would be a great camera.

I have been lucky in regards to my pro work pays for it all. I have had some success with my personal work but it wouldn't be enough to give the ones I love and rely on me a standard of living that they deserve. So I can afford to work with whatever tools I need to work with to do my job. And I choose Leica M digital because it best fits with the way I see and work period. And something even more basic would even further fit with the way I see and work. That's me. Others may have much different needs. And there are plenty of those options out there. Nice to have real choices.

I have a lot of light meters.

Oct 01, 2023 at 06:53 AM

retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

FrozenInTime wrote:
My basic M design would consist of a full frame 24 Mpixel sensor, electronic shutter and EVF.
This combination would half the cost of entry into the M system.

Add exchangeable lens mount (either L- or M-mount). A suggestion me and others brought up several times here - like a Q-based camera with exchangeable lens. But I don't believe Leica will price it much cheaper than an actual M-camera. Simply because they can...

Regarding FF sensor resolution, I personally think around 40 MP is excellent. I am ok with 24 MP but wouldn't mind to go higher in resolution. Leica could do something Sony first implemented in the A7 series and later also e. g. Canon in their 5D-series: releasing the same camera body with different sensor resolution specs for different needs. This strategy seems to have worked out very well.

Oct 01, 2023 at 07:22 AM

retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

airfrogusmc wrote:
I bought the original Monochrom in 2012 for just as much of what it didn't have as what it did have. I went all digital M in 2015 (even for my pro work) because I was tired of all the automation on DSLRs and of course now mirrorless. All that stuf I didn't want or need on my cameras. I went out of film kicking and screaming. I was an old darkroom rat. My pro work (clients) and divorce (loosing my darkroom) forced a big change. I had to go digital. I have shot both professionally and for my personal...Show more →

+1. Seeing the demand for the "new" M6, I wouldn't be surprised to see Leica revamping another traditional film camera but distinguishable enough from the M6 instead of making as suggested a digital "film-like" body. Could be something like a revamped M3 or M2 - no light meter, puristic, similar built. It won't be cheap though for sure - nothing Leica now makes is and will be.

I am not doing photography professionally - it will always remain a passionate hobby of mine. Since I am not under any time pressure to deliver photos or prints to customers, film remains a fun option for me to use in parallel to digital. For reasons I mentioned here in this forum in another thread, I now moved back more towards digital again mainly due to exploding film prices. This was also the main reason for me to get a used MM 246 camera which I am using in parallel now to B&W film photography with my film-based M cameras. I am using my (now older but still in very good condition) DSLRs very rarely now after I went fully with the M-system. Main con for my photography with the M-system is sometimes its limited near-focus limitation to 0.7 or 1 meter which is a no-brainer with any kind of DSLR or MLC system.

Oct 01, 2023 at 07:40 AM

airfrogusmc
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

If I still had a darkroom I would still be shooting film is some capacity.

In the 8 years I've been all digital M and in my personal work I have never need to focus closer the .7 and in my pro work if I need to focus close I use this:

Results

What some find limiting, I find liberating.

I totally agree with Alan:

Oct 01, 2023 at 08:22 AM

mapgraphs
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

A "really basic" digital "M" (ltm) to me might be something along the lines of a digital IIIc.

Oct 01, 2023 at 10:48 AM

chrislee
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

So what components make up that macro setup? Thanks

Oct 01, 2023 at 11:55 AM

Desmolicious
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

RexGig0 wrote:
True; I would/should not expect this concept M to actually be a “budget” M camera.

The thread title is “basic” not “budget”.

Leica doesn’t do budget…

Oct 01, 2023 at 11:55 AM

LBJ2
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

airfrogusmc wrote:
If I still had a darkroom I would still be shooting film is some capacity.

In the 8 years I've been all digital M and in my personal work I have never need to focus closer the .7 and in my pro work if I need to focus close I use this:
https://pbase.com/airfrogusmc/image/170540938.jpg

Results

Nice close-up work!

Oct 01, 2023 at 12:45 PM

algrove
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Any interest in a really basic Leica M?

Why wait. I already have one.

Take your pick a Barnack 1C, an M3 or and M6 without battery. All can be monochrome. Actually that's all I shoot in them anyway so I can control the PP in a wet dark room at least for the capture end. The print end is another story.

Oct 01, 2023 at 12:57 PM

1 2 3 4 end
FM Forums \| Leica & Alternative Gear \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.