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Fuji trash talk'n

ottokbre
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Fuji trash talk'n

Tried it on some portraits and landscapes. Enhance process def helps get rid of the plasticky details at 200%. Especially in the landscape.

Sep 29, 2023 at 08:47 PM

mahimihi
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Fuji trash talk'n

@gdanmitchell

“The XPro concept was”…

Correct. The XPro was but is no longer. Best thing you did was go to the XT, which is what I initially said in my post. “Biggest mistake I made was replace the XT2 with the XPro3”.

You want Fuji go XT. That’s all there is to it. Don’t let YouTubers lure you into an X100. They’re just a bunch of hipsters.

If they want to revive the XPro they need to:

1) give it a fixed screen if you don’t know what to do with it. Just leave it.

2) bring back a zoomable optical finder and let go of nicer and nicer high res EVF. A decent EVF is good enough. We get an XPro to use the Optical viewfinder.

3) LESS buttons

4) No video features

5) A unique sensor that isn’t the same as in the XT and every other Fuji. It has to be more than just more megapixels. How about a lower MP (18-24MP) that gives you a unique color signature? More film like without using gimmicky film simulations. And make it FULL FRAME. The only full frame Fuji the XPro. A new Fuji developed sensor.

6) A stripped down very easy menu that only has the setting you need to take pictures and nothing else.

7) made in Japan only. Black paint or silver. That’s it. No gimmicky titanium.

8) simple rugged design. It should be able to resist it all. In the XH1 they even reinforced the mount. It has to be able to be run over by a truck and keep working.

9) a new lineup of small manual lenses like Voigtlander makes in a native Fuji mount to go with the new sensor. No adapters. Focus by wire sucks. They should, with the new sensor, deliver a color signature and unique look. Vintage and awesome.

They should then develop a new separate lineup of manual small lenses and AF lenses for the XPro full frame sensor. Or they can partner up with Voigtlander to make them.

10) no film simulations. Just a plain raw and a great JPEG where you can only adjust contrast, sharpness, saturation to high-standard-low. And that’s it.

Sep 29, 2023 at 09:37 PM

gyoung143
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Fuji trash talk'n

Old photos are good, just like new photos, because of composition, timing and technique. Old ones may display technical failings because of the limitations of the materials and equipment available, they are great IN SPITE of these failings, not because of them.
In 60+ years in photography, professionally and in education, I never met a good (visually) photographer who didnt want sharper lenses, better films etc with less grain/noise, even in the 'vanity' led areas such as portraiture and fashion the photographer would rather have control of rendering, (think Imagon, or Nikons DC 105/135) rather than be stuck with such as a 2.8 Tessar which never gets really sharp till f/8 (and even then...)
An admiration for deficiencies is a dilettante amateur fixation, putting things in showcases instead of using them sort of thing. Archeology not art.
Best place for a viewfinder is over the lens axis, in rangefinder cameras (and the Xpro) that isn't possible for technical reasons. Iam usually left eye dominant, but have had longish periods where I have had to use the right eye, no trouble using Leica Ms, SLRs or staring at a ground glass screen on a Sinar. Either Xpro2, Xt3 or Nikon works, just get on with it.
An OVF with brightline frames allows you not just to see what's outside the frame, both movement and as an aid to composition, but also allows you to see what other focal lengths would make of the scene at the flick of a switch, without changing lenses (not so 'vital' now we have good zoom lenses).
High resolution digital gives the opportunity for higher performing lenses to be useful. But digital sensors (apart from Leica's special ones) need bulky telecentric lens designs. Even my 23mm f/2 Fuji is bigger than my full frame 35mm f/2 Summicron M, and if you want 1.4 the size is even greater. The old 1.4 23mm was softer at 1.4 and 2 than the the f/2 lens, the new one is better but more bulky, inevitably.
I don't know a poor lens in the Fuji system, but when I had Sony the 'kit' zooms for aps-c and full frame were dire, I just didn't find any use for them.

Fairly random thoughts, I can't go through all the 'stuff' above and isolate daft quotes...

Gerry

Sep 30, 2023 at 02:45 AM

wikxzen
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Fuji trash talk'n

X-Pro2 user since early 2017 here.
I still prefer the OVF (with ERF). EVF isn't important for me. X-Pro without EVF would not be a prob for me. But I know it isn't a popular opinion.

Next X-Pro with new developed OVF (based from X-Pro2 version), more brighter, little bigger optics and better ERF with more details. All for an even better "rangefinder style" experience. For everything else that needs to be seen, I use the rear LCD panel.
Featured IBIS for me is rather "a nice to have" instead "a must have", but I know it's useful with 40mpix sensor, for example.
Still, I can't imagine the new X-Pro body would significantly grow (weight and size) due to the larger current battery and added sensor stabilization system.

X-Pro3 isn't a bad camera, but I still haven't found a reason to buy one today. I would choose a used X-Pro2 again.
I feel the same way about the X-E3 versus last X-E4, for example. I'd take the older version of X-E again.

I'm not a fan of the X-T & X-H bodies, I have a big nose - considerably uncomfortable for that kind of shooting.
That's also why I took the 50R for example.

Petr

Sep 30, 2023 at 03:04 AM

sebjmatthews
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Fuji trash talk'n

mahimihi wrote:
If they want to revive the XPro they need to:

This has to be a joke. You have to be trolling. You're suggesting the X-Pro becomes vastly more limited, and essentially a previous-gen Leica, but that Fuji also invest tens of millions into developing a new lens line for it, throw out all of their biggest marketing points, and don't tell me, don't tell me... you wouldn't want to pay above-Leica prices for it, right?

What the [insert expletive of your choice]

gyoung143 wrote:
I don't know a poor lens in the Fuji system,
23mm f/2 at anything but infinity, all the XC zooms, and worst of all the original 56mm f/1.2, which is probably the second-worst first-party lens with autofocus that I have ever encountered. The build quality of that lens was shocking even when it launched at £499, let alone when they then bumped it up to £850. That was the first lens I not only didn't like, but felt insulted by.
The 100-400 is mostly great, except it suddenly it drops off in both optics and AF once you go past 300mm, which is a critical flaw as you obviously buy a 100-400 because you want to shoot at 400mm.
The 18mm f/2 and 60mm f/2.4 also have their fair share of flaws, though I value the 18's focal length and size, and the rendering of the 60, too much to hold everything else against them. But make no mistake about it, their build quality, focus, and technical image quality are all no good. Plus there's the useless 39mm filter thread on the 60, and the hood fiasco.

ottokbre wrote:
Oh man. Why oh why didn't they put a little EVF on that E-P7? Even a tiny GM1 style one.
I think they wanted to separate it from the Pen-F, and they wanted to keep the size/price down. They mostly made it for Asia & East Europe, where small and cheap sells, and it's lucky it ever got released anywhere else at all.

I do have my fingers crossed for a second Pen-F with all the advancements the E-P7 brought, but with a viewfinder and the slightly tougher body. Who really knows what Olympus is doing these days, though...

Sep 30, 2023 at 07:34 AM

gyoung143
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Fuji trash talk'n

sebjmatthews wrote:
This has to be a joke. You have to be trolling. You're suggesting the X-Pro becomes vastly more limited, and essentially a previous-gen Leica, but that Fuji also invest tens of millions into developing a new lens line for it, throw out all of their biggest marketing points, and don't tell me, don't tell me... you wouldn't want to pay above-Leica prices for it, right?

What the [insert expletive of your choice]

23mm f/2 at anything but infinity, all the XC zooms, and worst of all the original 56mm f/1.2, which is probably the second-worst first-party lens with autofocus that I have...Show more →
Well your assessment of the Fuji duds doesn't agree with general opinion AFAIK. Only ones I know of personally are the 60mm, which was sharp enough for general use even if it had 'peculiarities' of design. Being a long time Leica user 39mm is familiar, I have loads of filters, not that there is any need for them in digital photography. I also have the 23 f/2, which is great for anything except closeup, but then in 60+ years I have rarely found any use for wide angle lenses for that.

Gerry

Sep 30, 2023 at 07:51 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Fuji trash talk'n

gyoung143 wrote:
An admiration for deficiencies is a dilettante amateur fixation, putting things in showcases instead of using them sort of thing. Archeology not art.

Yup.

- - -

Not regarding the above:

Also, the notion that Fujiflm will sell _more_ of an existing model by radically reducing its features and capabilities in the next "upgrade" is... a fantasy.

- - -

As to the quality of Fujifilm lenses, a number of those on the above "dud" list are actually fine and useful lenses. I've never met a perfect lens — though the 90mm f/2 is pretty close — and all of them have features that fall short of Perfect Godlike Perfection.

Let's also not forget that there is NO manufacturer whose lens line meets with universal 100% approval from all potential users for every one of its lenses.

Edited on Sep 30, 2023 at 09:19 AM · View previous versions

Sep 30, 2023 at 08:19 AM

airfrogusmc
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Fuji trash talk'n

Just a heads up everyone mahimihi is carlos, vailjohnson, kinokun, untrue and others. He keeps getting banned and just creates a new name and back he comes. Kinda like whack a mole for Fred.

Sep 30, 2023 at 08:50 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Fuji trash talk'n

airfrogusmc wrote:
Just a heads up everyone mahimihi is carlos, vailjohnson, kinokun, untrue and others. He keeps getting banned and just creates a new name and back he comes. Kinda like whack a mole for Fred.

I figured something like that was up with that account right out of the gate.

Don't quote or reply to that account and put it on your hide list.

Sep 30, 2023 at 09:15 AM

gyoung143
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Fuji trash talk'n

Well I didn’t think the remarks were so far off base , plenty other nonsense on FM, some have been at it for years (it seems) without getting their marching orders!

G.

Sep 30, 2023 at 09:52 AM

ottokbre
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Fuji trash talk'n

gdanmitchell wrote:
Yup.

- - -

Ah yes, all of those movies shot on Panavision super 35 are only partaking in archeology. Do you shoot on a tilt shift 4x5? Archeologist! Why is it that, in the arts, only photographers have this strange austerity? It's a pathological wonder.

Sep 30, 2023 at 10:24 AM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Fuji trash talk'n

The pro cameras on film like Hasslblads and 4x5's didn't usually have a meter much less af. A lot of this stuff used to be seen as gimmicky by many

So it's odd to see everything go 180° in the other direction. The pro camera supposedly needs all this crap now. But you'll notice the Leica M is still popular.

Sep 30, 2023 at 10:57 AM

ottokbre
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Fuji trash talk'n

AmbientMike wrote:
The pro cameras on film like Hasslblads and 4x5's didn't usually have a meter much less af. A lot of this stuff used to be seen as gimmicky by many

So it's odd to see everything go 180° in the other direction. The pro camera supposedly needs all this crap now. But you'll notice the Leica M is still popular.

The relationship to the camera is always couched in "it gets out of the way" to "this enables me to....." and neither is wrong but the truth does get flattened. It's not that the camera takes the picture and the person is simply an operator, we all know this. But it amazes me how much people discount that the camera interacts with us and we just shoot differently depending on what we hold in our hands.

The photographer is still the artist but there is a material relationship here. The camera changes how you take pictures by how you interact with it. Musicians understand this very well. No one would claim that Benedetti was an archeologist because he plays an instrument from 1717. I don't understand why more photographers seem not to.

Camera design has speed up exponentially since about 1940. Now it's going at break neck speeds but they all seem to converge into one design (well, two because the smart phone dominates). It's contrary to the idea that a market place brings more variety. Cameras seem to be getting crushed into a monopoly of function and its user demand that is leading it there.

Sep 30, 2023 at 11:39 AM

gyoung143
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Fuji trash talk'n

ottokbre wrote:
Ah yes, all of those movies shot on Panavision super 35 are only partaking in archeology. Do you shoot on a tilt shift 4x5? Archeologist! Why is it that, in the arts, only photographers have this strange austerity? It's a pathological wonder.
Well I know what I meant by the remark referred too. For the avoidance of doubt it's the idea that a modern lens can be 'too sharp, clinical'. It's pretty easy with post processing to make things less sharp if you want to, but 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'.
Regarding your remarks, I have no idea what you're talking about, or what it has to do with Fuji. Not the first time in this thread.

Sep 30, 2023 at 12:04 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Fuji trash talk'n

ottokbre wrote:
Ah yes, all of those movies shot on Panavision super 35 are only partaking in archeology. Do you shoot on a tilt shift 4x5? Archeologist! Why is it that, in the arts, only photographers have this strange austerity? It's a pathological wonder.

The poster to whom I replied did not say that _using_ older gear back in the day was archeology, nor did he say that using older equipment is necessarily archeology.

He specifically referred to “an admiration for deficiencies.”

Read a bit more carefully before arguing with something that no on said.

gyoung143 wrote:
An admiration for deficiencies is a dilettante amateur fixation, putting things in showcases instead of using them sort of thing. Archeology not art.

Sep 30, 2023 at 06:34 PM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Fuji trash talk'n

ottokbre wrote:
The relationship to the camera is always couched in "it gets out of the way" to "this enables me to....." and neither is wrong but the truth does get flattened. It's not that the camera takes the picture and the person is simply an operator, we all know this. But it amazes me how much people discount that the camera interacts with us and we just shoot differently depending on what we hold in our hands.

The photographer is still the artist but there is a material relationship here. The camera changes how you take pictures by how you interact with...Show more →

I used the the 20D earlier this summer, need to clear off cards and use it again. I shot differently. I pp'd differently.

Perhaps the most obvious difference: the smaller lcd, I felt like it got me to use the lcd less. And I just didn't blast nearly as many photos, granted probably a good dose of nostalgia in there, too. It had nice ergs, since it had the older metal chassis and the 1/8000 ss + 1/250 synch reminded you this isn't just a cheaply made body regardless of the price today

But I'm not one for the latest gear necessarily. It does make a difference, the different gear. Great analogy comparing the older musical instrument to older camera gear

Sep 30, 2023 at 07:02 PM

ISO1600
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Fuji trash talk'n

Why are we talking about archeology now lol

If Fuji doesn't figure something out for the X100 and XE lines to get them back into stores and buyers' hands, they are missing out, plain and simple.

I also agree that most of their newer lenses are nothing special. When viltrox is making lenses just as compelling as the fist party and there is essentially no reason to buy Fuji glass (new), they should take a hard look at what they are doing.

The FujiCron line is wonderful. The first gen primes were magical.

Sep 30, 2023 at 10:59 PM

gyoung143
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Fuji trash talk'n

Oct 01, 2023 at 02:49 AM

gdanmitchell
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Fuji trash talk'n

ISO1600 wrote:
Why are we talking about archeology now lol

If Fuji doesn't figure something out for the X100 and XE lines to get them back into stores and buyers' hands, they are missing out, plain and simple.

I also agree that most of their newer lenses are nothing special. When viltrox is making lenses just as compelling as the fist party and there is essentially no reason to buy Fuji glass (new), they should take a hard look at what they are doing.

The FujiCron line is wonderful. The first gen primes were magical.

You can certainly get by with some (but far from all) of the cheapie 3rd-party lenses, especially if reducing your costs is the most important thing about your photography.

I don’t resent anyone experimenting with those lenses, and some might say that their existence suggests that Fujifilm is generating a good enough market to support them.

But Fujifilm lenses in general, especially when you look at their features in totality, are almost without exception rock solid performers in both optical and functional terms.Their integration with the cameras is generally significantly better than the third party lenses and is far more likely to remain so down the road.

As to lenses being “magical,” I think folks who evaluate lenses by their “magical” qualities are generally barking up the wrong tree. While lenses are not identical in their performance, any “magic” they impart is somewhere between trivial and imaginary — any real photographic magic comes from how the photographer uses lenses (and cameras and post-processing and printing…) to produce magical work.

In particular, while many of the older Fujifilm lenses were quite good and have performance that is essentially in the same class as their incrementally improved successors, the old lenses are no more “magical” than the new lenses. I write that as someone who uses both.

The truth lies somewhere between the two extreme positions. “Old lens magic” is generally a fantasy. New lens improvements are virtually always incremental rather than of a sort that will change your photography. Oddly, both misconceptions (“old gear is magical” or “new gear will change your life”) tend to betray an often-misguided GAS focus on imagining that photography is about gear. It isn’t.

Dan

Oct 01, 2023 at 09:08 AM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Fuji trash talk'n

I'm not seeing any evidence X100 is discontinued, b&h has temporarily out of stock. Definitely agree they should capitalize, and I hope they do. Might just be having a hard time delivering a bunch of cameras unexpectedly though

Oct 01, 2023 at 11:43 AM

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