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Curious about Film

lifeandmylens
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Curious about Film

I may regret even asking this and going down the rabbit hole, but I’m curious to try out film. I've already got some vintage lenses and I'd like to see how they perform.

What are the differences between all Leica film bodies? I have a m10-d now, so ideally would want a film body that’s most like that.

I’ve looked up film labs around me and it looks like to process and scan they’re about $20-25 a roll. I’m guessing all in it’s around $1 per picture with the film and the processing?

Sep 22, 2023 at 03:42 PM

adnan76
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Curious about Film

Aside from the Leica bodies, I also really love the Zeiss Ikon ZM bodies (also M mount, with aperture priority, and easy film loading).

Sep 22, 2023 at 03:49 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Curious about Film

lifeandmylens wrote:
I may regret even asking this and going down the rabbit hole, but I’m curious to try out film. I've already got some vintage lenses and I'd like to see how they perform.

What are the differences between all Leica film bodies? I have a m10-d now, so ideally would want a film body that’s most like that.

I’ve looked up film labs around me and it looks like to process and scan they’re about $20-25 a roll. I’m guessing all in it’s around $1 per picture with the film and the processing?

Most like the M10 is the M7. Awesome camera. The only film M that has aperture priority AE as well as manual.

As for the rest? Honestly they all are great. Getting the one in the best shape is the most important thing. And your choices are with a built in meter, or no meter.

If you really get into film, you'll save a tonne of money developing B&W film yourself - super easy, don't need a darkroom, just a changing bag and dev tank. And if you have a digital camera w macro lens, you can scan the film yourself. That is the main expense with film processing.
There has to be an FM-r close to you who can let you try out a film M. I would if you were in the Los Angeles area.

Sep 22, 2023 at 04:02 PM

theHUN
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Curious about Film

Film rules.

But lab scans almost always suck. Try to get your own scanner.

For me film makes more sense in larger formats, but that's just my opinion.

Finally, developing your own b/w film will end up being less expensive in the long run, and it is not as hard as you may think.

Sep 22, 2023 at 08:07 PM

madNbad
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Curious about Film

I'm with Huss on this one. Buy the newest M7 you can find. I love my M4 and M4-2 but both have been off for service and they still don't have a built in meter. The AE on the M7 will aid in the transition and everyone knows, if your pictures look good to start with, it's easier to stay with.
You already have the lenses and try a lab to start with but developing B+W at home is a breeze.
Most of all it's fun and looking at a strip of negatives beats looking at an SD card.

Sep 22, 2023 at 08:16 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Curious about Film

lifeandmylens wrote:
I may regret even asking this and going down the rabbit hole, but I’m curious to try out film. I've already got some vintage lenses and I'd like to see how they perform.

What are the differences between all Leica film bodies? I have a m10-d now, so ideally would want a film body that’s most like that.

I’ve looked up film labs around me and it looks like to process and scan they’re about $20-25 a roll. I’m guessing all in it’s around $1 per picture with the film and the processing?

For some people, film is inspiring. For me, it made me want to quit photography completely. Unless you develop and scan yourself (preferably with a digital camera as your "scanner" with all the support gear from Negative Supply), the results fall well short of film's potential. The worst 1-hour grocery store print lab back in the day made better prints and scans than today's bulk scan/print services. If you go in, go all in.

Sep 22, 2023 at 08:20 PM

highdesertmesa
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Curious about Film

As for cameras, I recommend a new M-A or used M4/M4-P – something without a meter. Why? Because if it's too easy to shoot film, you're going to shoot a lot of film

Sep 22, 2023 at 08:23 PM

OregonSun
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Curious about Film

I use a lab for developing, but agree that scanning with a digital camera (and processing with Negative Lab Pro) is the way to go.

Also agree that larger formats are more rewarding.

Check out Essential Film Holder for a more reasonably priced film holder.

If you want to get into 35 film for way less money, skip the Leica and go for one of any number of '70s to '90s SLRs. My favorite these days is the Pentax MX.

Or pick up a very nice medium format kit for what you'd spend on a Leica.

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:24 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Curious about Film

highdesertmesa wrote:
As for cameras, I recommend a new M-A or used M4/M4-P – something without a meter. Why? Because if it's too easy to shoot film, you're going to shoot a lot of film

This is coming from the dood who drives his Vette with the hand brake on so he gets fewer speeding tickets.

Akshully you will use less film if your camera has a meter because you’ll feel more confident you got the shot. Instead of thinking perhaps you should bracket the exposures to make sure you got a good one.

Sep 22, 2023 at 10:29 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Curious about Film

OregonSun wrote

Also agree that larger formats are more rewarding.

.

How DARE YOU Sir! The most rewarding thing in film photography is to shoot with garbage micro formats and get results from those. Surprise people when you say “why yes, I did shoot that on 110 film that expired 23 years ago using a Pentax Auto 110”

Exhibit A:

There just is too much pressure shooting medium format or larger because you are just expected to create something amazing. Because, c’mon, medium format amiright? Or amiright?

Hmm, this is actually why 35mm is the Goldilocks format. Not too big, not too small. No-one expects miracles from it, but they also don’t expect garbage. And that is why, ladies and germs, Leica dominates the film photography space.

Sep 22, 2023 at 10:39 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Curious about Film

P.s. if you are unsure and just want to dabble to see if you even like film, get something cheap that gives great results. I recommend the Nikon N80 w 50 1.8g or D lens. Or something similar. Insanely cheap if you look at it from the perspective of a Leica owner…. and it will give you superb results. That way you can judge if you even like film as the technical limitations like missing focus or exposure will be removed. And if you like the way the film images look, then go ahead and get a Leica. Because as you already like the digital M, this would be that but with film.

Sep 22, 2023 at 10:44 PM

panos.v
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Curious about Film

Desmolicious wrote:
P.s. if you are unsure and just want to dabble to see if you even like film, get something cheap that gives great results. I recommend the Nikon N80 w 50 1.8g or D lens. Or something similar. Insanely cheap if you look at it from the perspective of a Leica owner…. and it will give you superb results. That way you can judge if you even like film as the technical limitations like missing focus or exposure will be removed. And if you like the way the film images look, then go ahead and get a Leica. Because as...Show more →

This.

You can spend 2k on a Leica M film body only to realise you hate film. Of course you can sell that M body for maybe more than you paid for given M film body inflation but you still tied 2k down. So get a super cheap film camera like a N80 with a 50/1.8D or a Canon EOS 300 with a 50/1.8STM.

Film...have you seen how much film costs? Think a bit about the cost per shot. Then...I would highly recommend that you use a lab like FINDLab, Carmencita, Indie or whatever else for your first 3-4 rolls. This way you will see what the film look can actually be using professional scanners. Maybe you like it maybe you don't. Maybe you then say I'll buy a scanner/use a digital camera to scan. But all those self-scan options will be worse than one of those labs when it comes to output, certainly at the start when you don't even know what to look for.

Finally...I have sort of stopped looking at anything non-mainstream when it comes to repairs. By that I mean wither cheapo SLRs like the ones mentioned above or...Leica M bodies. The cheapo bodies I can put in the bin if they die and get another one. The M bodies you can fix in plenty of places. Everything else, EVERYTHING, is a gamble. Zeiss ZM? Yeah sure it is great but who fixes that? Had a Contax G for 3 days. It arrived broken, nobody would fix it. Huss has a broken Fuji Classe to sell you, if you want one of those high end P&S cameras.

Medium format is probably a it more repairable...some of them. But that's getting even trickier. So..basically I shoot digital, my cheapo EOS 300 and large format. But that's another discussion!

Sep 23, 2023 at 02:35 AM

bjhurley
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Curious about Film

It's amazing how popular film has become again, although I think it's regional. It's extremely fashionable in France among young people, and many of the young French immigrants where I live (Montréal) have film cameras. We have a few labs in town, but the most hip one (Studio Argentique) sometimes has lines out the door and they occasionally have to close shop for a couple of days so they can focus on processing their backlog and stop accepting new rolls.

I got back into film myself this year and after an initial period of "meh, why did I bother" I am now hooked. My main reservations about it are the environmental impacts. People will claim that a single digital camera has a higher impact than buying an old film camera and shooting hundreds or thousands of rolls, but if you already have a digital camera then every roll you shoot represents an avoidable impact. It's not just impacts of the chemicals used to develop film, it's all the materials and chemicals used to manufacture film, the fuel use and emissions resulting from transporting and distributing it to wherever you buy your film, and the physical waste of cannisters and negatives.

I still haven't seen a rigorous, objective lifecycle analysis of the environmental impacts of film, but it's like cars: you can buy a used car but the overwhelming lifetime impacts of a car are not in its manufacture but in the fuel used to run it. It's likely the same for film: my film cameras were made in the 1950s-1970s so their manufacturing impact is long over, but every roll of film I put in them has an impact. There are ways to minimize those impacts in terms of the processing chemicals used, but no way to avoid the manufacturing impacts (unless you only shoot old expired film and never buy new stock).

But I love shooting film and I mostly love the results, so I keep doing it. I'm just careful and I don't shoot a lot compared with digital.

Sep 23, 2023 at 03:12 AM

ottokbre
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Curious about Film

You can try a Canon rangefinder if you want to dabble first. The best part about buying a Leica film body though is no real depreciation over time.

PS: If I have extra cash in my photography fund and I don’t have an immediate need I buy Leica because it’s a better value store than just about anything (married guys know about hiding toy money lol).

Here is the math for me. Processing at lab but no scan or print:

Kodak Portra or Cinestill + processing is about $27 / 36 exposures = .75 a shot
Kodak/Fuji Gold/Color Plus + processing is about $20 / 36 exposures = .55 a shot

Sep 23, 2023 at 08:21 AM

lifeandmylens
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Curious about Film

Thanks all! I'll look for a clean m7 to dip my toes in. Worst case I sell it for a couple hundred dollar "rental fee".

Max shutter is 1/1000. So looks like I'm going to need to strong ND filter if I plan to shoot outside with a fast lens wide open?

Sep 23, 2023 at 08:42 AM

retrofocus
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Curious about Film

Started off with 35 mm film in the 80s and then went fully digital in 2005 until 2015 when I started again with film and darkroom work. Since I preferred smaller rangefinder M lenses, I also bought my first used Leica M6 (non TTL version) in 2016 as upgrade to my older SLR. I have mostly become a Leica M shooter since - I shot only film with Leica M cameras until I purchased my first used digital M-E 240 in 2020. During this time I was shooting 70-80% film - this has now shifted back towards more digital in recent years mainly due to higher film cost. At this point I stopped using color film, too. The difference to my digital photos with color film weren't worthwhile for me further pursuing it. This said I still enjoy working with B&W film in parallel to digital. When doing film, I consider it important to be in full control of the whole workflow including development and scanning. It is time consuming but also fun if it's done as hobby.

I believe that the film renaissance in recent years reached a maximum this year and will start slowing down again in years to come due to exploding prices for reputable film cameras and especially film itself. Starting out with film now won't be easy - as others mentioned here earlier, I would first try to use a cheaper priced SLR to determine if film is worthwhile continuing. I wouldn't spend nearly $2-3K for a used Leica M at this point. Such investment can always be done later in case you see a passion for film especially since Leica M film camera prices are now at its maximum already IMO.

Sep 23, 2023 at 08:44 AM

ottokbre
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Curious about Film

lifeandmylens wrote:
Thanks all! I'll look for a clean m7 to dip my toes in. Worst case I sell it for a couple hundred dollar "rental fee".

Max shutter is 1/1000. So looks like I'm going to need to strong ND filter if I plan to shoot outside with a fast lens wide open?

Or shoot with slower film if you do it on the regular. Cinestill 50D will keep your shutter speeds pretty darn low. I find with film, though, I stop down a lot more because I like the deep DOF on film look. I tend to shoot more shallow on digital where if I miss focus I know right away and its no big loss.

Also, the cheat code to developing your own black and white is using "one shot" developers. Basically a syrup concentrate your add to water, develop, toss when done. Kodak HC-110 or if you like the look Agfa/Adox Rodinal.

Sep 23, 2023 at 08:50 AM

highdesertmesa
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Curious about Film

Sep 23, 2023 at 08:58 AM

olegkin
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Curious about Film

It is easy to try with something like m4-2, or nikon fm2/3 bodies. I borrowed friend's m4 earlier this year to see what Leica is about. It produced nice results, but I did not like experience at all.
But I always liked simplicity of old cameras (no video there,

) and squarish formats, so I ended up buying Mamiya C330 and shoot it here and there, just for fun. Love the camera, love results. If you are curious about film, maybe double down and try different format as well.

Sep 23, 2023 at 09:13 AM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Curious about Film

lifeandmylens wrote:
Thanks all! I'll look for a clean m7 to dip my toes in. Worst case I sell it for a couple hundred dollar "rental fee".

Max shutter is 1/1000. So looks like I'm going to need to strong ND filter if I plan to shoot outside with a fast lens wide open?

I often use ISO 1.5 or 3 films, then no need to care about ND filters. Wide open all the time in blazing sunshine baby! But we are getting ahead of ourselves.
The beautiful thing about using ND filters on rangefinder cameras is as the VF is separate from the lens, it does not effect your ability /ease to focus.
But really don’t worry about it. Just go and shoot at f8 etc and enjoy the results. If you want your subject wide open, shoot against the light, in shade, indoors etc.
Look a the film images thread and see the glory of DOF!

Sep 23, 2023 at 09:34 AM

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