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New Canon Lens build quality

Gochugogi
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · New Canon Lens build quality

melcat wrote:
The EF 16–35mm f/2.8 II, EF 180mm f/3.5 macro and EF 100–400mm f/4.5–5.6 II all have metal barrels.

My 1996 EF 300 4L USM also has a metal barrel—I guess it's a "tiny" great white—but most Canon lenses from the late 20th c, are plastic fantastic.

Sep 21, 2023 at 10:29 PM

Imagemaster
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · New Canon Lens build quality

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the coefficient of expansion of the metal Canon EF metal lenses with the RF plastic lenses.

Plastic has a much higher coefficient of expansion (LCoE) than metal. As can be seen in the example table below, UPVC is almost 5 times as high as Mild Steel. The higher LCoE means that plastic pipe, such as PVC and ABS, will expand and contract more with a change in temperature than metal pipe.

Sep 21, 2023 at 11:56 PM

sebjmatthews
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · New Canon Lens build quality

Imagemaster wrote:
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the coefficient of expansion of the metal Canon EF metal lenses with the RF plastic lenses.

These materials are not as simple as "plastic vs metal"; some plastics will shift with temperature more than some metals, awhile in other cases it can be the other way around. There are literally thousands of plastic and metal composites in the world and you can't make such sweeping generalisations about them.

However, what we can say is that the composites that Canon are now using, as well as Sony, Nikon, Sigma, and Tamron have been using for the last decade or so, are extremely stable. This is partly due to the material itself, and partly due to the construction. You'll notice that lenses made today typically feature a wider range of materials, often with different textures and finishes, than older lenses. Manufacturers understand now how each piece will be affected by both environmental conditions and use, and can optimise materials for every part, rather than using a single material for everything. So, we get quite simple plastic for something like a lens hood, which needs to be able to flex, but something like CFRP for the mount anchors which need to be rigid.

So, while you shouldn't make or follow generalisations about all plastics vs all metals, when it comes to the materials used in modern lenses specifically, we do know that the majority of the materials used are more stable where they need to be, and the ones which do shift around are only used when having some give is an advantage.

This topic reminds me of when electric guitar manufacturers started using PCBs and clip connections instead of hand-soldering individual components, and people freaked out that this meant they would fail more, when the reality was they could last much longer and in the case of one company were literally the same connectors that were used in NASA spacecraft. I mention this because many of these modern plastic composites used in camera lenses are also used in spacecraft, planes, and cars, too. That was one of Sigma's big advertising points in Japan when they launched the Art line there.
If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for your camera.

Sep 22, 2023 at 08:13 AM

snegron7
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · New Canon Lens build quality

A non-scientist here, but if plastic is so fantastic, sturdy and impact resistant, why aren't cars, trains, airplanes or rockets made out of plastic?

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:28 AM

MintMar
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · New Canon Lens build quality

snegron7 wrote:
A non-scientist here, but if plastic is so fantastic, sturdy and impact resistant, why aren't cars, trains, airplanes or rockets made out of plastic?

It's the other way round - lenses typically don't have to undergo impacts at 100mph or some torques like airplane wings, also lenses don't have to suffer that much of a weather conditions like cars parked years outside - so they can be made out of plastic.

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:44 AM

pokemeng
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · New Canon Lens build quality

snegron7 wrote:
A non-scientist here, but if plastic is so fantastic, sturdy and impact resistant, why aren't cars, trains, airplanes or rockets made out of plastic?

I'm no mechanical engineer, they could speak to this more precisely but there is not one material that is just better for everything. The design space for a car, train, airplane, or rocket is wildly different from a camera lens from the environments you expect it to be in, how much someone has to carry it around, how much tolerance that you have in production, what the failure modes are, thermal properties, manufacturability, robustness to corrosion and other environmental factors, etc.

All these applications will have different constraints and different needs. So they are not all going use the same materials. For a targeted need I'm sure material engineers can often make composites that work better in the design space that is required for that component.

To stress that one material is not an end all for all products you can look at carbon fiber and how that is going. It is very much superior to metals in many ways but of course its not used everywhere. We can expect this for all materials and we can expect as we continue to develop our institutional knowledge in material science and manufacture that we will see a wider breadth of materials used across all applications. metals are great materials but now are not the default best for every application.

As far as RF goes: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/12/the-not-very-long-awaited-teardown-of-the-canon-rf-70-200mm-f2-8-is/

Roger seems to like it. So I personally am not all that worried about it.
I would even bet that some of those parts in the RF 70-200 couldnt have been made out of metal at any reasonable price but who knows.

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:48 AM

Robin Smith
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · New Canon Lens build quality

Some parts of cars are made plastics, crumple zones front and back in particular, and I believe that much of Teslas are made of plastic too, when the strength and stiffness is sufficient. Fiberglass bodies were not uncommon in the day. The trouble with plastic is that it cannot be repaired and simply has to be replaced. This means bumps and dings cannot be filled or bent back into shape. That is one of the reasons they have not been well accepted for most cars in the past. There were manufacturing reasons too for the preponderance of metals (stamping vs molding), but this is changing. But of course plastics do not corrode.

Sep 22, 2023 at 11:02 AM

artsupreme
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · New Canon Lens build quality

I own most of these expensive plastic fantastic lenses and all I can say is they've been holding up with heavy use and travel. As long as they are holding up, I appreciate the weight loss for transporting them around the world.

Sep 22, 2023 at 11:05 AM

armd
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · New Canon Lens build quality

melcat wrote:
I can only directly compare the RF 100–500mm f/4.5–7.1 with the EF 100–400mm f/4.5–5.6 II. I prefer the feel and look of the new lens to the old lens.

True that though as I mentioned, the paint doesn't seem as durable with respect to abrasion wear. Esthetics and ergonomics are important though performance and durability should not be compromised.

Sep 22, 2023 at 12:31 PM

melcat
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · New Canon Lens build quality

armd wrote:
True that though as I mentioned, the paint doesn't seem as durable with respect to abrasion wear.

I doubt there’s any coating there other than the index markings and numbers; the body colour will be through the plastic.

Esthetics and ergonomics are important though performance and durability should not be compromised.

I was leaving it to other, more expert, posters to explain why performance and durability have not been compromised through the use of engineering plastics. I am not worried about my “plastic” Canon L lenses.

Sep 22, 2023 at 10:24 PM

crisdesign
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · New Canon Lens build quality

Build quality of rf lenses is amazing compared to the build quality of the ef super tele lens hoods…

Sep 23, 2023 at 02:04 PM

Planetwide
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · New Canon Lens build quality

snegron7 wrote:
A non-scientist here, but if plastic is so fantastic, sturdy and impact resistant, why aren't cars, trains, airplanes or rockets made out of plastic?

First, the Canon lenses are not a true plastic, they are a composite. The Boeing 787 is made out of Carbon Fibre and composite materials. McClaren has been using composite for its frames for at least a decade. As for space applications, I'll just quote the following link:

"First used on the heat shield that helped Apollo missions re-enter the Earth’s atmosphere, the previously fledgling composites industry has expanded widely over the past five decades. Composites now make up dozens of components ranging from the lighter weight, stronger joints that hold the spacecraft together as it hurdles away from Earth to the space suits the astronauts of Artemis 3 will wear when they set foot on the moon."

https://fortune.com/2022/11/21/composite-materials-artemis-possible-innovation-transforming-aviation-industry-carmelo-lo-faro/#

Roger Cicala says this about the RF 70-200mm:

"It’s obviously very robustly engineered from a mechanical standpoint. The internal composites are strong as hell. There are double cams, rods, and posts everywhere. There’s no play in any moving parts. We can’t imagine there will ever be play in the moving parts unless you run over it with a truck. You could describe it as ruggedized, but I’m going to stick with Strong, Like Bull, and suggest we refer to this as the RF-SLB 70-200mm f/2.8 from now on."

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/12/the-not-very-long-awaited-teardown-of-the-canon-rf-70-200mm-f2-8-is/

I really don't think that you have anything to worry about.

Sep 24, 2023 at 10:26 PM

Choderboy
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · New Canon Lens build quality

snegron7 wrote:
A non-scientist here, but if plastic is so fantastic, sturdy and impact resistant, why aren't cars, trains, airplanes or rockets made out of plastic?

Google instantly shows extensive use of plastics.

I used "plastic in trains":

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0261306981900170

The use of glass reinforced plastics (GRP) within British Railways for rolling stock is well established. A number of examples are discussed which illustrate how the applications have developed to satisfy the specific requirements of the Railway Industry. The cab for the High Speed Train is a particularly good illustration of a structural use of composites where a GRP sandwich structure was designed to protect the driver from high speed missile impact.
Passenger doors and seat shells are other examples where the structural capabilities of GRP have been used to good effect.

Sep 25, 2023 at 04:25 AM

Choderboy
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · New Canon Lens build quality

RF-SLB 70-200mm f/2.8 Love it!.

Sep 25, 2023 at 04:26 AM

Planetwide
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · New Canon Lens build quality

artsupreme wrote:
I own most of these expensive plastic fantastic lenses and all I can say is they've been holding up with heavy use and travel. As long as they are holding up, I appreciate the weight loss for transporting them around the world.

Same here.

Sep 25, 2023 at 07:46 AM

armd
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · New Canon Lens build quality

melcat wrote:
I doubt there’s any coating there other than the index markings and numbers; the body colour will be through the plastic.

I was leaving it to other, more expert, posters to explain why performance and durability have not been compromised through the use of engineering plastics. I am not worried about my “plastic” Canon L lenses.

I was referring to the newer "white" paint used on Canon's lenses such as the 100-500. The flat matte is not as abrasion resistant as the older style paint. As far as plastics are concerned, again as long as performance and durability are not compromised, I could care less.

Sep 25, 2023 at 08:56 PM

melcat
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · New Canon Lens build quality

armd wrote:
I was referring to the newer "white" paint used on Canon's lenses such as the 100-500.

I had assumed that wasn’t paint, but had a closer look at my own 100–500, specifically the sliding hatch on the hood. Sure enough, there’s some overspray on its black rear face, meaning it’s not double-skinned like the rest of the hood. (The hood is two plastic skins, a white one and a black one, screwed and clipped together.)

Of course that also means the white outer skin of the hood itself might also be painted.

I also looked at Roger Cicala’s teardown of this lens here. It’s hard to tell from the photos whether the barrel parts are double-skinned. The only part that might appear to have overspray is also overexposed in the photo.

The flat matte is not as abrasion resistant as the older style paint.

Mine is spotless, but I’ve only had it a few months, for most of which I couldn’t use it in rough conditions due to an injury.

Perhaps you can post a photo of the scuffs on yours.

Sep 26, 2023 at 02:57 AM

johnld
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · New Canon Lens build quality

I personally like the EF build quality much better. I even prefer the character of the EF version's over the technical perfection of the RF's. However, I do think the RF 50mm 1.2L is probably the best Canon lens ever made, but I might swap it for the EF version as the form factor is nice on an R6.

Sep 26, 2023 at 09:27 AM

delsol9400
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · New Canon Lens build quality

Just to add to all of this... regarding the RF 85 1.2 the pebble like matte texture of the plastic part of the lens easily wears off and turns smooth simply from putting the camera down on a table and picking it up again. Really bad design by Canon. Anyone who has used one of these lenses in any full time capacity will notice. These lenses are going to look more used than they acually are for re-sale value.

Sep 27, 2023 at 06:55 PM

armd
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · New Canon Lens build quality

melcat wrote:
I had assumed that wasn’t paint, but had a closer look at my own 100–500, specifically the sliding hatch on the hood. Sure enough, there’s some overspray on its black rear face, meaning it’s not double-skinned like the rest of the hood. (The hood is two plastic skins, a white one and a black one, screwed and clipped together.)

Of course that also means the white outer skin of the hood itself might also be painted.

I also looked at Roger Cicala’s teardown of this lens here. It’s hard to tell from the photos whether the barrel parts are double-skinned. The only...Show more →

This lens had never been bumped, dropped, mounted on a tripod, etc. The abrasion was the result of being transported in a camera bag and being carried around...

Sep 28, 2023 at 08:05 AM

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