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Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

airfrogusmc
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

Malabito wrote:
Thanks! I guess that explains people's reactions to his comments.

I do agree with his statement about the images shared in the video, which I am surprised given Shallen work is very good.

But how much can you get from shooting from the hip? Those are the typical images when using that technique.

I donno Wnogrand would sometimes be shooting and not looking through the view finder.

In Schaller's video I personally find the guys face at 3:09 fascinating. In the way I find some of Gildens faces fascinating. I feels street. what did Gilden say? He said something like and I'm paraphrasing here, in a good street photograph you can smell the street.

Is it one of Schallers better images? Maybe, maybe not but I would challenge anyone to go out on the street for day with a video and see what they come back with, Some days I come back with nothing and some days I can't miss. I turn right on a street and see nothing. Turn left and I see photographs everywhere.

I thought this piece from Jeff Ascough was interesting and fits here.

And an interesting piece about finding your look or style or as Gibson called it Visual Signature.

Sep 22, 2023 at 06:31 AM

VailJohnson
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

airfrogusmc wrote:
I donno Wnogrand would sometimes be shooting and not looking through the view finder.

In Schaller's video I personally find the guys face at 3:09 fascinating. In the way I find some of Gildens faces fascinating. I feels street. what did Gilden say? He said something like and I'm paraphrasing here, in a good street photograph you can smell the street.

Is it one of Schallers better images? Maybe, maybe not but I would challenge anyone to go out on the street for day with a video and see what they come back with, Some days I come back...Show more →

Yes. Winogrand would barely look. But that’s Winogrand and Schaller is no Winogrand.

3:09 is my second favorite. The composition is poor but the subject is good. God knows how long he was shooting to get that one photo. Most days you shoot all the photos are crap. That’s just the way it is.

But it’s not enough to capture 1 interesting guy on the street once. What separates Winogrand from everyone else is that he had hundreds of those photos. Same as Gilden. But that’s not Schaller’s thing anyway. His style is more that Instagram high contrast B&W we see so much of. He is a musician turned photographer not that long ago actually, and he just picked up that style from seeing others.

Winogrand and Gilden are in another level. Another universe than Allan.

Allan’s photos don’t come anywhere near the collection of characters Gilden has. Gilden would probably tell him, he likes the subject but that’s it’s not composed properly and he’s not close enough.

Sep 22, 2023 at 06:35 AM

Malabito
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

Thanks for the video links!

I will go through them during the weekend.

airfrogusmc wrote:
I donno Wnogrand would sometimes be shooting and not looking through the view finder.

In Schaller's video I personally find the guys face at 3:09 fascinating. In the way I find some of Gildens faces fascinating. I feels street. what did Gilden say? He said something like and I'm paraphrasing here, in a good street photograph you can smell the street.

Is it one of Schallers better images? Maybe, maybe not but I would challenge anyone to go out on the street for day with a video and see what they come back with, Some days I come back...Show more →

Sep 22, 2023 at 06:39 AM

VailJohnson
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

In conclusion Allan said

Pick a wide angle lens. Close the aperture to like f8-11 so everything is in focus and practice a lot. He also said he practiced at home at f1.4 shooting things around the house to learn to judge the distance.

So there you go. I saved you 10 minutes of your life telling you something you already knew.

Sep 22, 2023 at 06:43 AM

airfrogusmc
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

Never said Schaller was a Winogrand, He is Schaller as it should be, Good to have influences. Being a cheap imitation of someone else, not so good.

BTW wasn't Adams a musician turned photographer? So what? Creativity all comes from the right side of the brain. Sometimes writers make good musicians and good musicians can be good painters, etc. Art should not be a competition. Winograd was Winogrand and his work is amazing. But that doesn't mean Schallers work especially Metropolis doesn't have merit.

BTW everyone picks up a style from seeing others. The key is taking in all ones influences mixing them up and having something ones own come out the other side. This is true in all creative endeavors.

Edited on Sep 22, 2023 at 06:51 AM · View previous versions

Sep 22, 2023 at 06:49 AM

VailJohnson
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

airfrogusmc wrote:
Schaller work is outstanding . Heres what he's done
http://alanschaller.com/biography

Carlos has done what?

Malabito wrote:
I don't know who Carlos is, but as i mention in my initial comment, I love Allans work, he has beautiful images, but this video as the images portrayed in the video look like the tons of images posted in street photography groups, where people think that by shooting someone from the side,up close and changing it to black and white, gets you great results... The images are dull and boring and not of the same level that we see in Shallers images. Perhaps this was done quite fast just to publish something.

airfrogusmc wrote:
Carlos is VailJohnson this time. He has been banned multiple times but keeps on coming back with a new name.

Malabito wrote:
Thanks! I guess that explains people's reactions to his comments.

I do agree with his statement about the images shared in the video, which I am surprised given Shallen work is very good.

But how much can you get from shooting from the hip? Those are the typical images when using that technique.

airfrogusmc wrote:
I donno Wnogrand would sometimes be shooting and not looking through the view finder.

In Schaller's video I personally find the guys face at 3:09 fascinating. In the way I find some of Gildens faces fascinating. I feels street. what did Gilden say? He said something like and I'm paraphrasing here, in a good street photograph you can smell the street.

Is it one of Schallers better images? Maybe, maybe not but I would challenge anyone to go out on the street for day with a video and see what they come back with, Some days I come back...Show more →
I don’t think a “style” is very important. May be the least important thing to focus on. Some people come at it from the standpoint of making a business and selling yourself. In that case it’s important. But for most people it’s not important.

A “style” or signature develops over many years. The problem is people want to be Instafamous tomorrow and they want to learn how to do that thing Allan does to get a lot of likes and views.

The reality is that if you look at any of the great photographers their photos looked nothing like what they’re known for. Ever seen the early work by Martin Parr? You would never guess that was him.

The way you develop a visual “signature” is over many years of going out there and taking pictures. The first thing you need to figure out is “what do I want to SAY with my photos?”.

Most people can’t answer that simple question. If you can’t answer that then keep shooting. There’s no video or quick way to get to your own unique style. All you’ll do is just do the cliche thing other people are doing.

Your style is your own unique way that you see things and your comment on that thing you’re looking at. This is nothing you can get from a YouTube video.

btw, the video you shared about developing a style. He basically describes Allan’s photos at 9:30 when he’s talking about Instagram. It’s sort of funny actually.

Confirms everything I’ve been saying. Even the “high contrast B&W guy with the fedora hat” that Allan posted at 3:09. 😅

“Extreme high contrast B&W with abstract shapes”. Ahahaha. Allan is a nice guy but he’s the poster boy of Cliche Instagram street photography.

Sep 22, 2023 at 06:50 AM

airfrogusmc
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

VailJohnson wrote:
I don’t think a “style” is very important. May be the least important thing to focus on. Some people come at it from the standpoint of making a business and selling yourself. In that case it’s important. But for most people it’s not important.

A “style” or signature develops over many years. The problem is people want to be Instafamous tomorrow and they want to learn how to do that thing Allan does to get a lot of likes and views.

The reality is that if you look at any of the great photographers their photos looked nothing like what...Show more →

As Gibson said a visual signature usually will not happen on it's own. One needs to work at it. And no one ever said any of this is a quick fix. I think some of these videos do get one thinking in the right direction.

I say it should be what do you want to say with a body of work. Making a single good photograph is like kinda like one good at bat in a baseball career. That wont get you into the Hall of Fame. Just like one photograph doen't make a great photographer. Adams, Weston, Robert Frank, Helen Levitt, Winogrand, Gibson, Roy DeCarava, etc all had strong visual signatures.
"You should be able to look at me and see my work. You should be able to look at my work and see me."
Roy DeCarava

When putting together a body of work it is sometimes more important what you leave out than what you put in. It's hard for the single image worshippers to get their heads around. Gibson has talked about it. Weston talks about how composition, technique can lead to a personal way of seeing.
Heres his exact words
"Then so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing."-Edward Weston

IIRC Ernst Haas once said something like and I'm paraphrasing again, I'd rather make crappy photos that look like my crappy photos than make pretty pictures that look like everyone else's.

But a youtube video can light a flame and push one in a new correct direction. A few words or one conversation or even a book can't get someone there. But it can be a start. Then you have to put in the work. That should be the real point Carlos.

Sep 22, 2023 at 07:10 AM

wolfloid
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

You say: „ It really isn’t an issue with mirrorless cameras because they All have flip screens and we can compose properly looking down at the screen.“

Which seems to entirely miss the point of the whole video.

Alan‘s technique, in the video at least, was to move past quickly without the subject really noticing - not possible if you stand and compose on a flip up screen. Hence his advice to practice with the M camera. The whole point is to learn, with practice, to do it without looking at a screen.

Sep 22, 2023 at 07:14 AM

retrofocus
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

I personally don't like to interact with people directly when doing street photography. Shooting from the hip is actually a decent way to remain unseen of taking a photo - especially when using a wider lens. I agree though that this technique is not easy to use and requires practice (I am by no means expert in it either!). Biggest challenge with this technique is to get the frame straight. A few examples below where I used this technique using my small Leica IIIc with attached CV 25/4.0 Snapshot-Skopar lens with FP4+ 125 film.

Sep 22, 2023 at 07:42 AM

Malabito
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

Sorry i know street is about fun... but the main issue with shooting from the hip can easily be seen with the images you just shared.

If you had fun that's what matters, and probably my comments are irrelevant, but from a technical pov they lack any context, subject of interest, composition, shadows, geometries, and the list goes on... this is why shooting from the hip is fun but rarely brings any results. Please don't take my comments badly...it's just my pov.

retrofocus wrote:
I personally don't like to interact with people directly when doing street photography. Shooting from the hip is actually a decent way to remain unseen of taking a photo - especially when using a wider lens. I agree though that this technique is not easy to use and requires practice (I am by no means expert in it either!). Biggest challenge with this technique is to get the frame straight. A few examples below where I used this technique using my small Leica IIIc with attached CV 25/4.0 Snapshot-Skopar lens with FP4+ 125 film.

https://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3734306901-5.jpg

https://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3734307427-5.jpg

https://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3734307581-5.jpg

Sep 22, 2023 at 08:24 AM

panos.v
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

Ok so I think we established that VailJohnson doesn't like Schaller's style of work. I'm sort of partial, some I like, some are amazing, some are a bit too styled. But they have a signature and you can sort of tell it when you see it. I can tell on the good ol Instagram when one his shots is in view without even looking at the profile pic. Phil Penman has a different style. Tatsuo Suzuik, yup different one too. And there's always Gilden and his, lately, grotesque work. What's with that? Some like it I guess.

It's ok to like different things. No need to get worked up nor defend some random stranger's work either. Sorry for stating the obvious.

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:20 AM

retrofocus
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

Malabito wrote:
Sorry i know street is about fun... but the main issue with shooting from the hip can easily be seen with the images you just shared.

If you had fun that's what matters, and probably my comments are irrelevant, but from a technical pov they lack any context, subject of interest, composition, shadows, geometries, and the list goes on... this is why shooting from the hip is fun but rarely brings any results. Please don't take my comments badly...it's just my pov.

I agree that they are not in any way perfect composition-wise. But you can get results you wouldn't get by handholding the camera on your eye. The photos I posted demonstrate this - in the last photo the lady behind the window would more likely in such case directly look at me or turn around. Same in the second photo - it captured the person without seeing me taking the photo (she looks to the side).

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:25 AM

RustyRus
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

retrofocus wrote:
I agree that they are not in any way perfect composition-wise. But you can get results you wouldn't get by handholding the camera on your eye. The photos I posted demonstrate this - in the last photo the lady behind the window would more likely in such case directly look at me or turn around. Same in the second photo - it captured the person without seeing me taking the photo (she looks to the side).

Yea its a pretty interesting angle. I am sure you can snag a few great ones if you got really good at it.

Impressive how well Alan is at that, wide open. I think it really comes down to taking the same lens out over and over and over and over again. He obviously has that 24 mastered.

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:55 AM

panos.v
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

In an older video (not on his youtube, I think it was on the Leica site) he was saying how he would go out with just the 24, set it to a particular distance and work till he learned what that distance was and what the framing was.

Sep 22, 2023 at 10:06 AM

airfrogusmc
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

panos.v wrote:
Ok so I think we established that VailJohnson doesn't like Schaller's style of work. I'm sort of partial, some I like, some are amazing, some are a bit too styled. But they have a signature and you can sort of tell it when you see it. I can tell on the good ol Instagram when one his shots is in view without even looking at the profile pic. Phil Penman has a different style. Tatsuo Suzuik, yup different one too. And there's always Gilden and his, lately, grotesque work. What's with that? Some like it I guess.

It's ok to like...Show more →

Agree. I really like his (Alan's}) Metropolis body of wrk. Some of the other work I can take or leave.

Also wanted to say he says and his work shows that he doesn't shoot from the hip all the time. He only does it in situations where he feels it's appropriate. As does Jeff. It's just technique and another tool in the tool box.

Sep 22, 2023 at 10:10 AM

Knut.
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

panos.v wrote:
Ok so I think we established that VailJohnson doesn't like Schaller's style of work. I'm sort of partial, some I like, some are amazing, some are a bit too styled. But they have a signature and you can sort of tell it when you see it. I can tell on the good ol Instagram when one his shots is in view without even looking at the profile pic. Phil Penman has a different style. Tatsuo Suzuik, yup different one too. And there's always Gilden and his, lately, grotesque work. What's with that? Some like it I guess.

It's ok to like...Show more →

Well, the antagonism to Schaller was just as much about his humor as it was about his pictures.

Some find him rather funny, others get riled by the way he presents things. There appears to be a chasm between West and East the Atlantic concerning self-depreciating humor. I have seen this again and again.

Maybe we should try to take this out of the equation as it might just be a thing of culture.

[I love British humour, but I understand, why some might find it irritating, „joking about things“ you or others believe are important. I believe people try not to come across too heavy and opinionated by this approach. But not everyone understands this or what the person truely wanted to say].

Sep 22, 2023 at 01:26 PM

RustyBug
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

airfrogusmc wrote:
Agree. I really like his (Alan's}) Metropolis body of wrk. Some of the other work I can take or leave.

Also wanted to say he says and his work shows that he doesn't shoot from the hip all the time. He only does it in situations where he feels it's appropriate. As does Jeff. It's just technique and another tool in the tool box.

+1 another tool in the bag.

Developing the ability to gauge distance and having muscle memory to shoot reasonably straight, square, level, plumb, framed, etc. without use of a viewfinder takes practice, to get your shot.

Some develop that skillset ... others, don't. I have my fair share, which even includes hip shots from a moving vehicle. Not my ideal, but, if the shot / moment is there ... I'll take the hip shot, over no shot at all. Kinda like making a backhand or scoop shot ... it's just one more way to go about it.

At the end of the day, I'm in the Roy DeCarava camp ... it ain't the veracity of the technique that matters, it is what the image does to the viewer.

Of course, the viewer brings their own frame of reference, cultural variance, training, beliefs, principles and philosophies to the table. So, you'll never please all audiences ... which then suggests you need to understand the audience you are shooting for ... even if it is only an audience of one.

And, yes ... there will always be those who are enamored by a given technique. Others ... may be looking far beyond that.

Edited on Sep 22, 2023 at 02:32 PM · View previous versions

Sep 22, 2023 at 02:14 PM

RexGig0
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

If we factor “street photography” out of the equation, shooting from the “hip” can be very useful in getting truly candid images of young children. One of my two grandsons is such a ham, that if I bring the camera to my eye, he changes his behavior, which can include cessation of activity with his brother and/or other children. If I hold the camera at the children’s level, I will get images of children acting naturally.

Focusing on children at play is not that difficult. With a 28mm Leica M lens, setting the distance at about 12 feet, and the aperture at f/8 to f/11, usually gets everything in acceptable focus. I tend to use Aperture Priority, and set an actual ISO setting, but the shutter speed could be chosen, with ISO set to Auto. If a child/subject gets closer than six feet, simply move the distance, on the lens, to MFD. When the child/subject then moves away, simply reposition the focusing ring to 12 feet. The only focusing ring position that has to be remembered is 12 feet, because there is a hard stop at MFD, and another hard stop at infinity. I did not invent these numbers. I think that I first got them from a Leica video presentation of Matt Stuart, on the you-tube.

Of course, this is not a “zero sum game.” It makes plenty of sense to transition, continuously, between distance/scale focusing, and rangefinder focusing. Moreover, shooting “from the hip” does not, necessarily, mean holding the camera by a hip. I see it as having my eyes, or at least my attention, directly on the subject(s), while the camera is out of my line of sight.

If the lens is not a Leica M lens, it may have an MFD closer that three feet, which requires paying more attention to the distance scales, as things get close. The wonderful Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AI-S, with CRC (Close Range Correction,) has a VERY close MFD.

If I use an iPhone, to shoot “from the hip,” I never know what the phone’s algorithm will choose as its AF point. The phone’s camera may not choose the desired subject, if there are multiple people/animals.

Sep 22, 2023 at 02:22 PM

TENOG
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

I'm glad you guys stopped feeding the troll. That's why he's here - for attention.

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:10 PM

TENOG
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Alan Schaller Shooting from the hip video.

I'm glad you guys stopped feeding the troll. That's why he's here - for attention.

Sep 22, 2023 at 09:10 PM

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