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Archive 2023 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Desmolicious
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Leicas attract da ladies. The only reason I use Leica.

Sep 21, 2023 at 12:40 AM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Knut. wrote..

The disadvantage of the rangefinder has always been that ..calibration of the rangefinder as well as the corresponding lenses has always been an issue requiring constant attention..

Not in my experience.

Sep 21, 2023 at 12:42 AM

bjhurley
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

rscheffler wrote:
It's not a system that does all the work for you. In fact, it punishes you for being lazy and inattentive. .

As the photographer Johnny Martyr (who shoots wedding receptions in dark environments on B&W film with a Leica M6) puts it: "It takes more of a photographer to use less of a camera."

Sep 21, 2023 at 04:30 AM

torifile
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

This is a similar question to why do people like mechanical watches when quartz or smartwatches are better at time keeping. Not exactly the same but in the ballpark.

Sep 21, 2023 at 06:08 AM

M_Wales
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Desmolicious wrote:
Leicas attract da ladies. The only reason I use Leica.

Huss that has not worked out for me... Still hoping...

Having worked my way through many of the brands mentioned that I did enjoy. The M system just slows me down and allows a little more thinking on my part (not to say you can't do that with other brands), but the M just works for me and I really enjoy using it.

PS: Plus they are so damn sexy....

Sep 21, 2023 at 06:51 AM

RSSmith
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Desmolicious wrote:
Leicas attract da ladies. The only reason I use Leica.

Oh, it's true.

1986 001 by Ron Smith, on Flickr

Sep 21, 2023 at 07:03 AM

retrofocus
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

rscheffler wrote:
Leica M is very expensive and this often means a range of photographers are attracted to the system because if it costs that much, it must be "the best" and will therefore make them better photographers.

This might indeed happen in some cases but IMO this behavior is less common. The attraction to Leica comes from: 1. Collectors: the luxury brand name. I suspect this is the majority of new-Leica-camera-buyers. Most of these cameras remain in the box they come with (there is a reason why the film-scratching issue with some batches of new M6 cameras was admitted quite late - because most of these cameras never saw a film inserted!). 2. Passionate Leica enthusiasts: Use and enjoy the gear. Rarely people start out with a Leica camera as first one. Many of the users are in a better situation regarding wealth - including retirees, users in a successful profession. Then there are some who get a decent used Leica M and use it for a very long time - street photographers, artists. This is at least from my experience when meeting other Leica users. They all fall in either of these two groups. Never met one who bought a Leica to improve in photography.

Sep 21, 2023 at 07:23 AM

retrofocus
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Desmolicious wrote:
Leicas attract da ladies. The only reason I use Leica.

Most never even heard the Leica brand name.....they are much more impressed by a new iPhone

Sep 21, 2023 at 07:25 AM

retrofocus
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

RustyRus wrote:
I enjoy shooting M series in almost every scenario except for sports.

The real reason though is I always take my camera with me with an M system. Like said above, its just easily fits into my life style.

I can take a fast aperture prime with me anywhere I want to go, I can even take some 60 year old classics or remakes with me if I want as well. All in incredible compact packages.

Sorry for the awful picture but here is

Sony A7rV with 35 1.4
Leica M11 with 35 1.4 SR attached
35 f/2 APO
50 1.2 Noctilux
50 1.4...Show more →

Off-topic here, but seeing this picture reminds me how ugly I find the bulky handgrip on the newer Sony A7 series cameras. IMO the smaller grip in the first gen series is and was the best.

Sep 21, 2023 at 07:32 AM

John Wolf
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Viewing the world through an optical viewfinder with frame lines is one of the great pleasures of photography. For me, that plus zone and hyperfocal focusing are the two distinctive and compelling qualities of M photography.

John

Sep 21, 2023 at 08:37 AM

RexGig0
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

The tactile experience is significant to me, too. I am left-handed, so, the experience of manually focusing is all the more significant, and that may be why I have liked using the manual focus ring, from the beginning. Not that Leica has a monopoly on optics with pleasing haptics, of course…

Interestingly, though I am left-handed, I am right-armed, in that I throw with my right arm, and use larger, heavier tools right-handed. This has resulted in arthritis and other ailments affecting my right thumb, hand, wrist, and shoulder, so that the camera body’s ergonomics and haptics are less important, because I mostly support the camera and lens with my upraised left forearm and hand. The lens is the M camera’s “grip.” When I pause from shooting, but do not let the camera hang on its strap, I hold the camera with my fingers and thumb on the lens barrel, if it is large enough. This is yet another reason I pay attention to a lens’ ergonomics/haptics.

Sep 21, 2023 at 09:07 AM

RustyRus
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

rscheffler wrote:
Yes.

I agree with what others have posted, but another aspect of the M that I find kind of liberating is the fact that it is inherently rather imprecise, particularly with the optical viewfinder. Things like parallax error, even though the frame lines shift for some compensation, you're inherently viewing the scene from a slightly different angle than the lens, and things line up slightly differently. So if you want something lined up a certain way, you kind of have to fly by the seat of your pants and use intuition and experience to get you there without falling back to live view, or chimping between shots. Because I know framing won't be that precise, I don't usually spend a lot of effort trying to perfectly line up a scene and just do it intuitively. Sometimes it doesn't quite work out the way I wanted it to, but that's usually OK, too. At least for me.

If not shooting wide open, or at wider apertures, you can kind of just get focus in the ballpark, kind of line up the focus patch. You don't have to be super careful about it because depth of field covers the minor focusing errors, allowing you to work quickly and intuitively. I never found SLRs to be like this, nor mirrorless for the most part. For me this is different than zone/scale focusing. I'm sometimes not very good at judging distances so to have the rangefinder patch in the viewfinder as a guide, but not having to perfectly line it up if there's ample depth of field, works well for me.

You mentioned not being able to see depth of field through the M's optical viewfinder as a negative. For me it's more of a positive. With an SLR, or a mirrorless that only stops down at the moment of exposure (with native lenses, rather than adapted manual lenses), it's the opposite. One only sees wide open shallow depth of field, unless using the DoF preview button. With the M, I find it's the closest to viewing the scene with the naked eye, because it essentially is. The optical viewfinder is primarily a framing device and doesn't become a 'screen' onto which the image is projected, like an SLR's focusing screen, or the EVF of a mirrorless camera. Therefore the view through the M to me feels very natural and low strain on the eye. I just look at the scene and decide where to place focus and use experience and intuition to understand how DoF will play out with the selected aperture. I'm often around f/8 anyway, so the deep DoF natural view through the viewfinder IMO works better for me.

I think what it boils down to with the M, for me, is that it is a simple, fluid experience. The camera for the most part doesn't get in my way. I'm rarely fighting it (usually only if it locks up, which does happen from time to time), which means I'm just concentrating on what's in front of the camera.

In the spirit of Bob Ross (of The Joy of Painting TV show on PBS in the 80s and 90s) these disadvantages can also be seen as catalysts for 'happy little accidents.'

Leica M is very expensive and this often means a range of photographers are attracted to the system because if it costs that much, it must be "the best" and will therefore make them better photographers. I kind of feel sorry for them because they don't really seem to know the hurt that's in store for them when the M system is approached in this manner. It's not a system that does all the work for you. In fact, it punishes you for being lazy and inattentive. All that money really just buys you a very stripped down, no frills package and then makes you work to extract the maximum benefit from it. So no wonder it often leaves a sour taste with many and a poor value for the dollar in respect to the technology you're paying for. But if you know and understand that going in, and actually want a no-frills experience for the 'purity' or simplicity, or hands-on experience, I can't think of anything else on the market that comes close. Oh, and the lenses - small jewels of optical awesomeness.

And not just from Leica....Show more →

Very well said!

Sep 21, 2023 at 10:08 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Desmolicious wrote:
Leicas attract da ladies. The only reason I use Leica.

Didn't seem to work for us during our LA outing. I must have been scaring them off.

retrofocus wrote:
Most never even heard the Leica brand name.....they are much more impressed by a new iPhone

They won't know the brand, but they like the look of the camera. I have had ladies comment on my Leicas over the years. When I'm working with Canon gear, only guys ever want to talk shop. The Leica seems to attract attention more based on its style and leads to different kinds of non gear-centric conversations. Canon-initiated conversations tend to be about the gear: comparing specs, comparing each other's gear inventory, etc.

Sep 21, 2023 at 10:41 AM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

rscheffler wrote:
Didn't seem to work for us during our LA outing. I must have been scaring them off.

It was more your Canadian accent. Chicks dig an element of danger (will his Leica scratch film?), but that was dulled by the typical Canadian vibe of trust me, everything will be just fine..

Sep 21, 2023 at 11:06 AM

airfrogusmc
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

He talks about zone focus and why he prefers it to auto focus. I agree.

Sep 21, 2023 at 11:25 AM

airfrogusmc
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

Knut. wrote:
The disadvantage of the rangefinder has always been that depth of feld cannot be judged in the viewfinder and that calibration of the rangefinder as well as the coresponding lenses has allways been an issue requiring constant attention.

There must be additional advantages of Leica M-cameras that I am missing due to lack of knowledge.

The DoF scales are on lenses so you can judge DoF and they work. I use them all the time. There is no autofocus faster than being pre focused. See the above Alan Schaller video.

I prefer a digital camera that doesn't have all the stuff I don't want on a camera I have 2 M10s and an M 10 Mono. I do not like the way Sony functions. Nice to have a true digital rangefinder option.

Sep 21, 2023 at 11:31 AM

retrofocus
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

rscheffler wrote:
Didn't seem to work for us during our LA outing. I must have been scaring them off.

I second this experience as long as it was related to an early Leica model. My IIIc is indeed a starting point of conversations due to its unique vintage look. More modern M cameras look similar to e. g. Fuji MLCs cause not much point of interest if not having the knowledge of the brand.

Sep 21, 2023 at 11:44 AM

RexGig0
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

A woman’s attention may be first caught by the camera, but then they tend to look downward, and then size-up a man from the feet, upward. Multiple sources confirm this sizing-up method, and from what I have seen, over the years, I agree. So, I reckon that if I want to start conversations with women, I should have not only an impressive camera, but decent footwear and trousers. The worn-out, over-sized water shoes, that I bought in case I want to launch a canoe, or walk through a wet area, are, therefore, probably not what I should wear if I want to walk-about with a camera downtown, or in a trendy area, and start conversations with women.

To be clear, I claim no expertise in choosing footwear that attracts women. I wear my wingtips to funerals, and my Danner Mountain Light boots when I want to have my prescription insoles in place. My active wear shoes are trail-runner types. Strictly pragmatic/utilitarian. My rather expensive western boots, with riding heels, which were my long-ago “dress” footwear, no longer fit me, in the forefoot area.

There are you-tubers, I am sure, who have advice, on trendy footwear. I do not want to drift any farther off-topic…

Back to cameras, when I would be on foot in the Rice University area, in Houston, Texas, specifically in the trendy shopping district known as Rice Village, I did notice that a Nikon Df camera, which was a “retro” DSLR model, did tend to attract compliments from women, to a greater extent than other medium-sized DSLRs I had used. This was before I was using Leica M cameras, so, I should try the experiment again, with an M10 or M 246.

Notably, buying an M10, my first M camera, almost totally relegated my Nikon Df to sitting on the shelf. I still use Nikon DSLRs, but usually the larger, “serious” D850 or D5.

Edited on Sep 21, 2023 at 12:17 PM · View previous versions

Sep 21, 2023 at 12:12 PM

Desmolicious
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

retrofocus wrote:
I second this experience as long as it was related to an early Leica model. My IIIc is indeed a starting point of conversations due to its unique vintage look. More modern M cameras look similar to e. g. Fuji MLCs cause not much point of interest if not having the knowledge of the brand.

Which is why I do this when I am out n about

Sep 21, 2023 at 12:13 PM

bjhurley
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Manual focus lenses: What is the allure of a M-LEICA IN 2023?

RexGig0 wrote:
I did notice that a Nikon Df camera, which was a “retro” DSLR model, did tend to attract compliments from women, to a greater extent than other medium-sized DSLRs I had used. .

According to this song, it's the Nikon F that does the job best. :-)

https://youtu.be/Rlv3855lUxQ?si=RjaMlkU-LqOCkzfg

Sep 21, 2023 at 12:24 PM

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