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upgrade 23/35 or 27??

  
 
bambi73
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


hello
i have the 23 1.4 + 35 1.4 (and 14). i use it (along with the 70-300) for travelling, landscape, hiking, street, family etc.
i want to upgrade the 23/35. i do a lot of hiking so looking for WR lens. and i want one lens with good AF.
So - which of the neewer lens will be *MUCH* better than the old one?
another option is the 27 - but in that case i will sell the 27, but still need the 23 1.4 for low light. and they are too close...
*i tried and didnt like the 23 2
thanks!




Sep 18, 2023 at 01:42 AM
phidippusaudax
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


The XF 23mm f/1.4 R LM WR is a superb lens and maybe even a little sharper than the new 33mm. I took most of my pictures with it when I went to Europe last year on an X-T3.

I would upgrade the 23mm because you can always crop to match the 33mm you didn't upgrade to. The original 35mm also has a certain charm to it.

You might also look at the 18mm f/1.4 R LM WR instead of the 23mm to get the equivalent full frame 27mm angle of view that is quite popular for street.

For full frame there are three popular sets of focal lengths for travel and street.

20/24/27 mm and a fast 50mm (APS-C equivalents: 13mm-18mm and a 30-35mm)
OR
A fast 35mm and a fast 85mm (APS-C equivalents: 23mm and 56mm)
OR
16-35mm f/2.8 and 24-70mm f/2.8 (APS-C equivalents: 11-20mm Tamron and XF 16-55mm or Sigma 18-55mm)

Some people don't like to overlap zoom ranges and go for a 12-24mm instead of a 16-35mm (APS-C equivalent: XF 8-16mm)



Sep 18, 2023 at 09:06 AM
sebjmatthews
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


I won't talk about the 23s, because although I've used all the Fuji 23 lenses, I simply don't like that focal length, so I have a hard time making recommendations.

The 33/35s, on the other hand, I've used and like a lot and I will recommend both the 35mm f/2 and 33mm f/1.4 as big upgrades over the original 35mm f/1.4, with one caveat.

Of the three XF lenses, the 35mm f/2 is the fastest-focusing, smoothest-focusing, quietest-focusing, and in my experience the most consistent-focusing. It is also the most soundly-built and sealed. Of the three, it's the one I have gotten the most use out of. I have gotten equal use out of the XC 35mm f/2, which is the same optics and focusing but in a much cheaper, unsealed shell; I leave that on the smaller bodies, which aren't sealed themselves anyway, for when I want to cut down weight as much as possible.

The 33mm f/1.4 has the best optics in a 'test chart' sense. It's the highest-resolving, highest-contrast, and in general best-corrected. The focusing is much better than the original 35mm f/1.4, though not quite as good as the f/2. However, it is of course the largest and heaviest, and many people complain that the optics are too 'clinical'; I don't quite agree, but I do find the 33's optics a bit boring.

Which brings me to the caveat, which is that some people do really love the optics of the original 35mm f/1.4, so much so that they see the f/2 and the 33 as downgrades. I'm not one of those people, but I recognise they exist. For that reason I can not guarantee that you will prefer either the f/2 or the 33; you might find out you're one of those people who likes the original's optics enough to give up the technical advancements of the other two lenses. Unfortunately, that's not something anyone can know but yourself, and you'll only know it once you've actually tried one or both of the newer lenses...

One other thing to note is that you mentioned needing something for "low light", and depending on exactly how "low" you mean, you might not find the f/1.4s are enough. None of the f/1.4 lenses are a full stop faster than the f/2s, but more like 3/4 of a stop; in my experience, the f/2 lenses with the ISO and shutter speed bumped by 1/3rd of a stop is enough to equalise the exposure with the f/1.4s, while still having better focus. The limitation only comes when you get down to about -4.5EV (i.e. partly cloudy moonlight), where some Fuji bodies suddenly refuse to focus with the f/2s. That's where the f/1.4s actually start to make a difference in low light, since they'll still attempt to focus (albeit very slowly and inconsistently). Of course, most people don't shoot under light that dim anyway.
So think hard about exactly how "low" your "low light" is, and don't bank on buying or keeping an f/1.4 lens just for the sake of shooting in the dark. Get or keep the f/1.4s because you like the optics and handling, rather than for the negligibly brighter exposure. You probably don't "need" the f/1.4 for "low light" as much as you might think you do.

TL;DR:
The 33mm f/1.4 is the best upgrade if you are one of those people who values sharpness above all else.
The 35mm f/2 is the best upgrade if you value focus and build above all else.
Some people love the original lens the most anyway, so nothing is guaranteed.



Sep 18, 2023 at 03:27 PM
bambi73
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


thank you all for the great replies!


Sep 19, 2023 at 05:06 PM
kenbennett
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


I replaced my original 23mm f/1.4 with the new one, and added the new 33/1.4 but kept the original 35/1.4. I like shooting with all of them, but to be honest the new 33mm gets the most use. Love the overall image quality and the rendering, and the AF is excellent on an X-H2s body.


Sep 19, 2023 at 06:25 PM
cwmoros
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


I have owned the 23 1.4 WR, 35mm and 33mm. I absolutely love the new 23. The sharpness, the rendering, the build, AF, just everything is amazing. I sold the 35 for the 33 and while I did like the 33mm it did not have the same appeal to me as the new 23mm. And I also love the size and form factor of the 35mm. So I sold the 33mm and bought back a 35mm. I really like the rendering even on the new 40mp and the form factor is next to none. So that's my story.


Sep 21, 2023 at 09:00 PM
Geoff D F
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


So - which of the neewer lens will be *MUCH* better than the old one?

The answer is none of them. The old lenses are all good. The newer ones have slightly quieter, slightly quicker, slightly more sure-footed focussing. They may be a bit sharper, but in many cases you probably won't see much difference.



Sep 21, 2023 at 09:42 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


bambi73 wrote:
hello
i have the 23 1.4 + 35 1.4 (and 14). i use it (along with the 70-300) for travelling, landscape, hiking, street, family etc.
i want to upgrade the 23/35. i do a lot of hiking so looking for WR lens. and i want one lens with good AF.
So - which of the neewer lens will be *MUCH* better than the old one?
another option is the 27 - but in that case i will sell the 27, but still need the 23 1.4 for low light. and they are too close...
*i tried and didnt like the 23 2
thanks!



I have those lenses (the 23mm f/1.4 and the 35mm f/1.4) and I'm really not interested in replacing them. They are actually really good lenses.

For one thing, the original 35mm f/1.4, besides being optically excellent, is very small and light. The older 23mm is also optically first class, though it is bigger than the 35mm.

The newer lenses may be "better," but I'm pretty sure that your photographic results won't be "much better" than with the lenses you have.

I'm also a fan of the 27mm f/2.8 pancake, especially the newer one with the aperture ring. I carried in (plus the two other lenses mentioned above, and the 14mm f/2.8 and the 90mm f/2 on a recent 10-week trip. I estimate that more than 90% of the photos I brought back were made with that lens.

I'd argue that for the things you list, it is perhaps the most appropriate lens.



Sep 21, 2023 at 10:49 PM
bambi73
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


gdanmitchell wrote:
I have those lenses (the 23mm f/1.4 and the 35mm f/1.4) and I'm really not interested in replacing them. They are actually really good lenses.

For one thing, the original 35mm f/1.4, besides being optically excellent, is very small and light. The older 23mm is also optically first class, though it is bigger than the 35mm.

The newer lenses may be "better," but I'm pretty sure that your photographic results won't be "much better" than with the lenses you have.

I'm also a fan of the 27mm f/2.8 pancake, especially the newer one with the aperture ring. I carried in (plus
...Show more

thanks!

how is the 27 compare to the 23 in f4-f8?




Sep 22, 2023 at 08:59 AM
 


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gdanmitchell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


bambi73 wrote:
thanks!

how is the 27 compare to the 23 in f4-f8?



It is quite good, especially in that aperture range — where I shoot it most of the time.

The main virtue for me in the 23mm f/1.4 is its performance at the larger apertures for my night street photography — thought I do that with the 27mm, too, in many situations.



Sep 22, 2023 at 11:25 AM
mdude85
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


So - which of the neewer lens will be *MUCH* better than the old one?

Neither lens will be much better than the old one. The older lenses are still very good; you may notice some slight improvements in AF for both lenses. IQ wise, you probably won't notice a difference when you're stopped down.




Sep 22, 2023 at 12:58 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


The "not much better than the old one" observations are far more universal than some lens shoppers would like to believe.

The photo equipment business — including manufacturers, vendors, writers, affiliate websites, influencers, etc. — has a vested interest in building hype about new products. That's not. going to change — it is pretty much human nature. After the 20th article, YouTube video, photo forum post, brand photographer article, and more... it is easy to believe that each new lens, camera, tripod, filter, lens cap, and foam tripod leg protector will change our photography and our lives.

Ain't true.

Every so often something comes along that is a pretty big deal and marks a significant change or update that might actually affect the way we photograph in significant ways. It might be a brand new thing like a miniMF system that costs a half or a quarter of what came before. It might be a serious mirrorless camera design. It might be — oh, heck, it was! — the introduction of viable digital sensors.

But it is almost never the move from model 27 to model 27a of a camera. Nor is it the newest iteration of the something-millimeter f/1.4 lens from a manufacturer. It isn't speeding up burst rate by 15% or increasing the accuracy of AF by 21% or decreasing noise by 20% at ISO 138000.

Incremental improvements are Good Things and manufacturers make them all the time. But the old thing remains as good as it was — which with modern digital camera systems is generally very good, indeed. The new thing is a little better, so if you are otherwise already in the market for it and don't own one already, that is a fine thing. But if you trade in your old model for the new one too readily, pretty soon the luster wears off and you are left with something that doesn't change your photography that much at all.

To be sure, there are occasionally updates that are significant. As a street photographers who shot for decades with lenses that had aperture rings and who got into the Fujifilm system precisely because of how it leveraged my familiarity with such systems, it grated on me and interfered with my photography that the old 27mm f/2.8 didn't have an aperture ring. Yes, I upgraded when the new one came out, and it has improved my photography. (I gave the old lens to one of my sons.)

As someone once said, "When it doubt, doubt." ;-)



Sep 22, 2023 at 03:35 PM
Kamukix 7
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??




sebjmatthews wrote:
I won't talk about the 23s, because although I've used all the Fuji 23 lenses, I simply don't like that focal length, so I have a hard time making recommendations.

The 33/35s, on the other hand, I've used and like a lot and I will recommend both the 35mm f/2 and 33mm f/1.4 as big upgrades over the original 35mm f/1.4, with one caveat.

Of the three XF lenses, the 35mm f/2 is the fastest-focusing, smoothest-focusing, quietest-focusing, and in my experience the most consistent-focusing. It is also the most soundly-built and sealed. Of the three, it's the one I have gotten the
...Show more

Beautifully answered, and I concur.



Sep 23, 2023 at 08:36 AM
Deuxieme
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


I will say the newest lenses are much better only in specific conditions.

One being near or at minimum focusing distance. Especially At maximum aperture.

Other being diffraction stars, which most of the Fujinon lenses do not render with much definition.

Last being used for video as the exhibit smooth, silent C-AF and little focus breathing.

These compose a significant of my personal use case, so I see value in the new lenses. YMMV.



Sep 23, 2023 at 11:22 AM
kenbennett
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


I'll add that the new 23 and 33 are significantly better at controlling flare, especially veiling flare. Whether or not this is important depends on the look you want to capture. I love the flare I get from my 35/1.4 in certain situations, for example. Shooting events outdoors at night, any streetlights or event lighting just flares all over the photo. Looks very cool, until you need it to not do that The new lenses don't do that.


Sep 23, 2023 at 11:48 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


I have some contrary experience with some of the Fujifilm lenses in this focal length range. (Because I'm very happy with the lens I use, I do not have experience with the 33mm f/1.4.)

I have owned and extensively used the 35mm f/1.4 since I first adopted the x-trans system as my alternate system (it complements a full frame system from another manufacturer) about a decade ago. It was actually the lens that sold me on the system back then. I continue to use it and it remains an excellent performer. I find the criticisms of the lens to be largely overblown and perhaps affected by gear lust for newer things.

(Recently there was a kerfuffle because it is not included on the "ready for 40MP" lens list from Fujifilm. That baffled me, so I went out and made some test images with the XT5 using the lens... and it is more than "ready" for 40mp.)

Where my experience specifically differs with your report when it comes to the relative performance of the 35mm f/2. (The short summary up. front about it is, "Great lens, but...")

I was excited when the 35mm f/2 first came out. I read reports that concluded that it was much quieter (though that hadn't been an issue with the 35mm), that it focused a lot faster — though reports of optical performance varied. Some said it was better than the 35mm (which seems to be a theme with new lenses in this focal length range, eh?), while others suggested that you would give up image quality for its faster focus, lower price, and smaller size/weight.

While I was considering weather a move to the f/2 lens would be worthwhile, circumstances allowed me to obtain one and shoot it side-by-side with my 35mm f/1.4 for several weeks. My biases going into the test were that the f/2 would AF faster but that the f/1.4 would have better optical quality... but that if IQ was about the same or even better the smaller lens would be better for my typical use at that time.

After weeks of shooting both, thinking about what I observed about mechanical performance (especially AF speed and accuracy, but also sound) and image quality (assessed in many ways ranging from a gestalt view of images with both lenses to intense side-by-side comparisons of images on screen at high magnifications) I decided...

... that both produced images that were just about the same and that the reported AF speed improvement, if it existed at all, was so small as to be imperceptible. Since the sound of the f/1.4 had never something I even noticed, any difference from the f/2 was meaningless.

I ended up keeping the f/1.4, but mainly because it gave me an extra stop in a very small package and I like to do night street photography. If my photography were a bit different I would have chosen the f/2.

My advice?

If you have the 35mm f/1.4, you have an excellent lens. Look at your results rather than listening/reading too many online reports telling you how awful your lens is. It is a very fine lens. Its virtues are excellent image sharpness, quite decent AF performance, the f/1.4 aperture, and its small size and weight.

If you don't need f/1.4 and you want an even smaller lens with approximately equal performance at a significantly lower cost, the 35mm f/2 is an excellent choice. Your photographs will look pretty much the same from either lens, but there's no sense paying more or getting a bigger lens if it does the job.

Regarding IQ, after staring closely at files from the two lenses at high magnifications, generally I would have been unable to tell which lens they came from if I had not made the exposures. Trying really hard to find any difference, I could sometimes, maybe, sort of, if I tried really hard and looked at 200% and larger, kind of convince myself that the corners might have sometimes looked a little bit different... but not in a way that was going to actually be visible.

As to the newer 33mm lens, I have no direct experience. I do know that the 35mm makes beautiful photographs, and I also know that reviewers and forum posters generally inflate the reality and meaning of purported performance differences. I also know that when the smaller, lighter f/1.4 lens performs so well, that I have a hard time imaging that any IQ improvements from the 33mm lens would outweigh its cost, size, and weight.

YMMV.

Dan

sebjmatthews wrote:
I won't talk about the 23s, because although I've used all the Fuji 23 lenses, I simply don't like that focal length, so I have a hard time making recommendations.

The 33/35s, on the other hand, I've used and like a lot and I will recommend both the 35mm f/2 and 33mm f/1.4 as big upgrades over the original 35mm f/1.4, with one caveat.

Of the three XF lenses, the 35mm f/2 is the fastest-focusing, smoothest-focusing, quietest-focusing, and in my experience the most consistent-focusing. It is also the most soundly-built and sealed. Of the three, it's the one I have gotten the
...Show more




Sep 23, 2023 at 11:48 AM
VailJohnson
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


IMO

The 23f2 is the best every day lens Fuji makes. But you don’t like it so…

Maybe 35f2 then.

If you find the 35f2 look too “digital” and corrected then choose the original 35f1.4.



Sep 24, 2023 at 04:37 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · upgrade 23/35 or 27??


VailJohnson wrote:
IMO

The 23f2 is the best every day lens Fuji makes. But you don’t like it so…

Maybe 35f2 then.

If you find the 35f2 look too “digital” and corrected then choose the original 35f1.4.


I'm confident that virtually no one could tell, among a set of 16" x 24" prints from both, which photographs were made with the f/2 and f/1.4 versions of the 35mm lenses. As I noted earlier, I have used both.

As to a lens. making an image look "too digital," I have no idea what that even means... ;-)



Sep 24, 2023 at 10:33 AM







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