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Archive 2023 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already

  
 
eyal
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


Got lots of great c/c from here last football season and hopefully am improving - would appreciate more c/c on these.

I am the sole shooter for the varsity team. We have awful lighting and I am using an a1 with the Sony 70-200/2.8. I own the 100-400 but it's too slow in my opinion for the light on these night games.

The one thing I forgot is how much work my quads do. I bend on one knee on every single play. I have my gear on a monopod more to keep it stable for gifs and to use as a mini crutch as the game goes on to help me lower and rise back up. Oh and I have good kneepads that look like overkill but the gel is very nice. Don't know if anyone has advice on the repeated up/down motion but my quads were killing me the next day.

Few favorites with notes:

1. Have three from this sequence and a gif but think I like this best as the player is about to get flipped


2. TD! Few others from this series as well but liked the light and leg motion best on the ball carrier here. Might benefit from a cropping foreground and sides a bit but I wanted to show that he was about to cross plane of end zone


3. Defender actually managed to break up the catch after this shot. Probably could go tighter here


4. Breaking tackles - maybe crop a bit of right but kept the red marker to give sense of field position
[

Thanks for looking and any c/c

Shooting again tomorrow night so if anyone has good suggestions on the up/down every play, I'm all ears. I do have free rein of the field so I tend to set up 10-15 years ahead of line of scrimmage on offensive series and at or slightly behind line on defensive ones. So I continue to move as the teams do...



Sep 13, 2023 at 03:32 PM
jcnemy
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already



Nice set of shots here…thanks for sharing. Captured some nice peak action. Some general comments then some per shot:

- Looks like you’re standing versus kneeling/sitting. I understand that may be by choice and such, but most would argue you get a better look and your subjects look better against backgrounds taken from a lower perspective.

- exposure, WB, and NR look mostly good to me except one called out below. Looks like you got proper utilization of your gear and positioned nicely.

By shot:

1. Nice tackle capture…especially with the ball carrier getting some air. I would consider seeing what a vertical crop would do where you isolate the pair and discard everything to the left and right of the frame, especially #28 coming in late on the play.

2. Same thing…a vertical crop may help isolate the ball carrier while getting your bonus background material of the QB raising his hands. I think there’s too much ‘supporting cast’ on the left and right. Plus - under exposed and would look into dodging some on the face mask to see if you can pull his eyes out to grab everyone’s attention.

3. Nice capture of this pass play. Tighter crop..I think vertical would help, but horizontal may as well and straighten it. The fence poles are crooked.

4. As the others….I think a vertical crop would be best here since you can isolate the ball carrier while including a defensive player attempting a tackle. Also - straighten it out….leans left. I know a lot of lifestyle photographers these days are big in the crocked crops…so if that’s your style, then tell me to go away and pound sand.

In closing…you’re there, just some minor things to consider. Look forward to seeing more.

JC



Sep 13, 2023 at 07:35 PM
eyal
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


jcnemy wrote:
Nice set of shots here…thanks for sharing. Captured some nice peak action. Some general comments then some per shot:

- Looks like you’re standing versus kneeling/sitting. I understand that may be by choice and such, but most would argue you get a better look and your subjects look better against backgrounds taken from a lower perspective.

- exposure, WB, and NR look mostly good to me except one called out below. Looks like you got proper utilization of your gear and positioned nicely.

By shot:

1. Nice tackle capture…especially with the ball carrier getting some air. I would consider seeing what a vertical
...Show more

Thank you very much

Actually was kneeling for most of these (hence my complaint about my quads killing me )

I'll play with verticals and hate tilted horizons but didn't want to cut off a food on that last shot...



Sep 13, 2023 at 08:05 PM
bcampea
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


You should get a little folding chair like this: https://www.amazon.com/TravelChair-1389VBK-Slacker-Chair-Black/dp/B000FXVAYW/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=23H91O2D4OYR1&keywords=mini%2Bfolding%2Bchair&qid=1694718565&sprefix=mini%2Bfolding%2Bchair%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

I use a similar one at every game. It's easy to quickly pick up if the action gets too close.



Sep 14, 2023 at 02:10 PM
eyal
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


Game 2 was Thursday Night. Later start time so worse lighting. Also because of a photographer last week who was in the coach's way, the regulars were relegated to the usual end zone to 25 yard line which sucked. Oh and we were outmatched...
Quads were better though - think that was just not being used to the up/down

C/C welcome

1 - a7r3 with 16-35/4 @ 22mm 1/250 f/4 iso 6400


2 - a1 with 133mm 1/1000 f/2.8 iso 16000


3 - 171mm 1/1250 f/2.8 iso 16000


4 - 200mm 1/1250 f/2.8 iso 12800


5 Threading the needle (between ref and team on sideline) - 200mm 1/1250 f/2.8 iso 25600


6 QB Run - 200mm 1/1250 f/2.8 iso 16000


7 Sandwiched - 200mm 1/1250 f/2.8 iso 12800


Edited on Sep 17, 2023 at 07:10 AM · View previous versions



Sep 16, 2023 at 04:04 PM
RustyRus
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


I like the action on these! Are you doing any de-noise? My only issue would be they are a bit noisy at least on my monitor.

Any chance you can post the exif with them?



Sep 16, 2023 at 11:51 PM
eyal
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


RustyRus wrote:
I like the action on these! Are you doing any de-noise? My only issue would be they are a bit noisy at least on my monitor.

Any chance you can post the exif with them?


Thanks! Just edited to add settings

Minimal/lazy noise reduction in LRc - just moved the noise slider to 10. I have Topaz Denoise and did rework some of them with that or LRc's new denoise and it did make a big difference but didn't feel like denoising all of them. If we had won the game, I probably would have....



Sep 17, 2023 at 07:12 AM
RustyRus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


eyal wrote:
Thanks! Just edited to add settings

Minimal/lazy noise reduction in LRc - just moved the noise slider to 10. I have Topaz Denoise and did rework some of them with that or LRc's new denoise and it did make a big difference but didn't feel like denoising all of them. If we had won the game, I probably would have....


Higher ISO than I thought with some of those...Yea its a task for sure to go through and edit with LR for all of them Sounds like a batch task



Sep 18, 2023 at 12:02 AM
BKeroack
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


Good shots! Depending on your facility, I would think twice about using any kind of camp chair as suggested. They are not allowed at college games, and I would not want to be defending against the lawsuit that would occur if a player were to land on that chair (or you!) and get injured. I would work on some exercises to get in game shape to some degree, or try to stay in one place for several plays at a time? If you have trouble getting up quickly, do not sit down on a sideline!


Sep 18, 2023 at 10:35 AM
eyal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


BKeroack wrote:
Good shots! Depending on your facility, I would think twice about using any kind of camp chair as suggested. They are not allowed at college games, and I would not want to be defending against the lawsuit that would occur if a player were to land on that chair (or you!) and get injured. I would work on some exercises to get in game shape to some degree, or try to stay in one place for several plays at a time? If you have trouble getting up quickly, do not sit down on a sideline!


Thanks. Already better after second game. It was just a first game of not having used those muscles as much.

Also did some lunges around the house in the days leading up to it ;-)



Sep 18, 2023 at 10:43 AM
dkallmann
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


eyal wrote:
Thanks! Just edited to add settings

Minimal/lazy noise reduction in LRc - just moved the noise slider to 10. I have Topaz Denoise and did rework some of them with that or LRc's new denoise and it did make a big difference but didn't feel like denoising all of them. If we had won the game, I probably would have....


Wow, seeing some of those ISOs, I suddenly feel a lot better about some of the fields I've shot at and complained about.

This may cause some arguments, but I'd be inclined to go down on the SS to help the ISO. Maybe 1/800 would be worth the tradeoff. Maybe not. Or maybe you've already tried and found it didn't work. Just a thought.

Some more noise reduction would be worth a shot too. My LrC workflow is to dodge areas that need it, apply some local sharpening to the area of focus (usually via brush or radial gradient) and then use a preset I created that has some fairly gentle adjustments, like some clarity (15), a little sharpening (20) and a light vignette, plus some more aggressive noise reduction (35). I'm sure there are better ways to go about it, and I admit I'm pretty slow in editing, but it works for me.

There are some really nice captures here, but in a number of the images I'd be inclined to crop tighter. That'd be pretty tough with all that noise, particularly in the blacks. It's all about compromises.

Good luck.





Sep 19, 2023 at 03:50 PM
Grant1120
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


"This may cause some arguments, but I'd be inclined to go down on the SS to help the ISO. Maybe 1/800 would be worth the tradeoff. Maybe not. Or maybe you've already tried and found it didn't work. Just a thought."


dkallmann - First let me be clear that I have no desire for an argument, however, I am keenly interested in a healthy discussion of this topic. I think we would both agree that a key objective is to lower the noise to the limit possible. This will be different with every camera body but the strategy to reduce should be similar. The effect of reducing shutter speed can lower ISO. If you can get the eyes/head in focus with no motion blur and are okay with motion blur on the extremities, slower SS are okay. I really do like some of those type shots. In fact, I went as low as 1/200 and panned and felt some of the shots were pretty good. However, I don’t feel lower shutter speed is a “sustainable” solution to reduce noise. More to my specific interest, is the concept of ISO Invariance. Without going into the technical details, it fundamentally says that as you increase ISO level past a certain point, the noise level increases and that noise is created “in camera” and baked into the image data. For the sake of discussion let’s say an image shot at ISO4000 has 10 units of noise and an image taken at ISO12800 has 35 units of noise. Let’s also assume the ISO4000 image is underexposed by 3 stops. Fundamentally, if you increase exposure by 3 stops in post processing you will increase the noise (3x10) to 30 units. On the other hand, the image “properly exposed” at ISO12800 needs no increase in exposure but it leaves the camera with 35 units of noise. In this example, the higher ss captures the image with no motion, and still delivers less noise in the final image.
So the idea I am trying to express and investigate in my own work is that ISO Invariance says that keeping the ISO level low (individual choice by camera) and keeping the SS high enough to stop motion will result in an underexposure that can be adjusted in post processing and will have less overall noise than a properly exposed image. The higher SS keeps my hit rate much higher and more consistent on the fast action shots which to me is the most critical factor.
Again, this is for discussion purposes.



Sep 19, 2023 at 08:47 PM
eyal
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


Appreciate the comments and discussion

Like I said, I was being lazy after a loss and didn't run these through LRc or Topaz DeNoise. I did a few later and both did a very nice job with these high ISO images.

I don't think I would go under 1/1000 as I would prefer a denoised but sharp shot than one with motion blur.

Eager for the first away game for better lighting...



Sep 19, 2023 at 09:24 PM
dkallmann
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


Interesting discussion on noise/ISO/SS.

Grant1120, you've taken a much more scientific approach than I ever considered, which is great. My approach is definitely seat-of-the-pants.

My point about "may cause some arguments" is there are some topics about which perfectly reasonable people on opposite sides can disagree vehemently. You have to do A; you can't do B ... that sort of thing. RAW vs. JPG is a one, minimum SS is another.

On the second one at least there is a continuum. Everybody does what works for them, and that may even change by situation. I'm always eager to kick ideas around.



Sep 20, 2023 at 10:19 AM
eyal
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Friday Night Lights - second season and my quads hate me already


Week 3 at home (next game is away). Did use LRc noise reduction on all of these.
Unfortunately, coach now restricting all photographers outside the coaches box.
Managed some decent shots but between the lack of offense (only scored one TD) and these rules, I got far less than I had hoped.
All shot with the Sony a1 and 70-200/2.8 at 2.8 with auto ISO of 12,800-32,000














Sep 23, 2023 at 06:48 PM





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