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Acquiring a focus lock R5

LuckyStrike88
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

Greetings

It has been suggested that I start a thread on this topic to perhaps troubleshoot some issues on my R5 that has been used daily since the beginning of July (My apologies for asking questions on other threads and interfering)

I am still a newbie at Mirrorless coming from the 7D series and 1DX2 cameras which I understand much better

Over the weekend I experienced some very glitchy things with the R5 (at startup no focus function for 5-10 seconds.. up to 30 seconds) Powered off/on / removed battery .. still same

I would say that each time I use the camera with my 100-400ii or 300 2.8ii (plus 1.4iii or 2xiii) the focus process is quite slow and my big frustration is that I am missing shots like mad. The lenses hunt and search , almost lock on the target them bounce away... With birds especially ... there goes the shot

*** Do the RF lenses like the 100-300 2.8 or the 100-500 achieve fast focusing? ***

On some occasions, I switch the manual focus on the lens to find the subject then once its on target I go back to autofocus and using animal eye detection the camera tracks and follows amazingly (I have taken 1000's of shot over the past 10 weeks and very impressed with the look of the ones that worked

* yesterday a photog pal and I conversed about camera connections and had I ever cleaned contact points ... No I had never touched them so am going to try that. From the camera body-adapter-2X-lens ... that creates a lot of pin and contact spots!!! *

My focusing setup has been paired to the suggested 3 back button variations according to a video I watched from "wildwings" I think was the name. I mostly shoot birds and the animal eye tracking usually works once I grab a focus. This is fine for sitting birds but birds in flight are mostly missed because the setup will not quickly lock a focus on a flying object... just searches.
If there is a nearby tree or plant to hit a focus then I can often connect to the bird (like a hummingbird) and track/shoot but even pointing up to the sky to photograph an aircraft... no luck

I know much of the issue is trying to reprogram my brain to the way this camera functions ... Very steep learning curve for this vintage dude using new(ish) technology

Thank you for any suggestions .... I know when this camera first was released people had some similar issues but firmware solved? My firmware is currently @ 1.8.1

All the best

TerryV

Sep 12, 2023 at 11:39 AM

ramage
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

@LuckyStrike88

Lets start at the basics and build from there.

Is the Camera new or used?

What media are you using? Please be specific with the brand, size, and ratings of the cards. (The cards will not impact focus but could be related to the slow start up you experience)

What case are you using in the AF Case Settings?

Is the subject detection set to Animals?

Have you disabled Continuous Autofocus?

Check out this old video from DPReview on the R5 setup - https://youtu.be/51kCNnWKXHc?t=402 I have linked the video where they are talking about AF settings.

99% of the time all of these things are non issues and are set as one would expect but it helps to set a baseline.

Sep 12, 2023 at 12:04 PM

LuckyStrike88
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

ramage wrote:
@LuckyStrike88@

Lets start at the basics and build from there.

Is the Camera new or used? *** Brand new RF purchased June 30 ***

What media are you using? Please be specific with the brand, size, and ratings of the cards. (The cards will not impact focus but could be related to the slow start up you experience) I wondered about that
* my main go to card is 512 GB ANGELBIRD AV PRO SE CF express B 1785mb/s*
backup card slower to download is SD XCii V60 AV PRO 512 GB 280 mb/s (used occasionally)

What case are you using in the AF...Show more → ... I keep figuring the issue is ID-10-T error

Many Thanks .. will watch that DP review video

Much appreciated

Terry

Sep 12, 2023 at 12:32 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

LuckyStrike88 wrote:
My focusing setup has been paired to the suggested 3 back button variations according to a video I watched from "wildwings" I think was the name. I mostly shoot birds and the animal eye tracking usually works once I grab a focus. This is fine for sitting birds but birds in flight are mostly missed because the setup will not quickly lock a focus on a flying object... just searches.

I don't own the R5, but my R6 II grabs and locks onto BIF's with no problem. Despite what others use and say is better, I have never had any use for back-button focus on any camera I have ever owned.

Just a half-press of the shutter button works fine for me and is easier. Half-pump it if you need to.

Give it a try.

Canon EOS R6m2 RF100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM + EXTENDER RF2x lens 800mm f/16.0 1/2000s 1250 ISO -0.5 EV

Sep 12, 2023 at 04:56 PM

Rudy Pohl
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

I bought an R5 + RF100-500 L about a year ago and have used them about 12 hours per week for both images and video (80-90% video). The camera startup and focus availability is almost instant and the focus lock is virtually instant with no hunting or searching.

Rudy

Sep 12, 2023 at 05:08 PM

ramage
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

Thanks @LuckyStrike88 nothing you listed raises any flags for me other than continuous AF being enabled.

For the life of me I cannot understand why Canon defaults to that being on. The setting makes the camera focus all the time. Also Canon calling it Continuous AF has lead to so much confusion...

When the R5 first came out there must have been a thread every other day on Canon Rumors where users were asking why their new camera was always focusing. Most of these users thought that Continuous AF was like Servo mode in our old DSLR's so when hunting in the menus to make it stop they over looked that setting.

Simon has a pretty good video on this https://youtu.be/HCsiE6jrG5A?t=323 again I have copied the link to the bit about continuous autofocus

One thing you might want to give a try is to reset the Camera back to defaults, you can save your current configuration to a card so it can be restored pretty easy.

Over the years I have had a few people come to me with there almost new Camera that is setup just like they saw their favorite YouTuber set his or her camera. It has been my experience that often these custom settings do more to confuse a user that is upgrading or switching systems.

Might be worth a shot because you really should not feel like you're having to fight the Camera to get good results.

Last thing I would add is it never hurts to have a look around your area and see if there are any birding groups or local spots where photographers go. I might have just been lucky but I yet to meet anyone that is not happy to talk photography or help a fellow shooter out when I run into other photographers at any of the local hot spots.

Sep 12, 2023 at 05:53 PM

LuckyStrike88
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

Imagemaster wrote:
I don't own the R5, but my R6 II grabs and locks onto BIF's with no problem. Despite what others use and say is better, I have never had any use for back-button focus on any camera I have ever owned.

Just a half-press of the shutter button works fine for me and is easier. Half-pump it if you need to.

Give it a try.

Tony ... Thank you .. very much appreciate your reply! This is my first experience using back button focus points. I think it is versatile but confusing and easy to hit the wrong one when scrambling for a shot. I had so much trouble getting this camera to focus at first I searched out all the how-to videos and this method was touted as a key way to use the camera.

Shooting it today in my yard at several distances, it seemed to work quite well , compared to the weird glitches I experienced on the weekend, but the close shots were impossible without using the focus distance limiter (mind you the DX2 is the same... simplifies the focus search from 6 feet to 18)

You may be interested in what I was shooting ... A mature male Rufous hummingbird that has been terrorizing the back yard for 3 days. He has sustained a dramatic looking injury to his right eye area... Maybe he will stage here for a while till he fully recovers, if that is possible. I have not seen an adult Rufous here past end of June in 30+ years of watching them.
Thx again for your help

TerryV

Sep 12, 2023 at 06:15 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

One of the most painful things for me on the R5 when using big teles on AF Servo was the AF setting "Lens drive when AF impossible."
Although Canon recommends "Stop focus search: On" for long teles it's better to leave it in "Continue focus search: On." I missed a number of opportnuties until I figured it out.

EBH

Sep 12, 2023 at 06:23 PM

LuckyStrike88
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

ramage wrote:
Thanks @LuckyStrike88@ nothing you listed raises any flags for me other than continuous AF being enabled.

For the life of me I cannot understand why Canon defaults to that being on. The setting makes the camera focus all the time. Also Canon calling it Continuous AF has lead to so much confusion...

When the R5 first came out there must have been a thread every other day on Canon Rumors where users were asking why their new camera was always focusing. Most of these users thought that Continuous AF was like Servo mode in our old DSLR's so when hunting...Show more →

Brilliant stuff ... THANK YOU

Continuous AF on ... does that function make the camera sound like something is loose inside the body?

This video explains the cases much more clearly that I can ever recall listening to ... I am going to bookmark it and make notes!

Interesting you mentioned resetting to factory default.. I was thinking of this after my fiasco weekend ... One thing I tend to do is try this or that and forget I had changed a function then spent much agonizing time trying to remember what I changed!

This camera is way beyond my recall reflex response ... So much to learn here... So appreciate your help

Thank you

TerryV

Sep 12, 2023 at 06:42 PM

ramage
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

Terry,

Trust me I can 100% relate to this.

"Interesting you mentioned resetting to factory default.. I was thinking of this after my fiasco weekend ... One thing I tend to do is try this or that and forget I had changed a function then spent much agonizing time trying to remember what I changed"

I have been close a few times to using a 12 pound (hammer) reset button after I cannot for the life me figure out what I changed and how to change it back...

Simon d'Entremont really does a great job of making some complex subjects easy to follow.

Sep 12, 2023 at 06:49 PM

LuckyStrike88
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

EB-1 wrote:
One of the most painful things for me on the R5 when using big teles on AF Servo was the AF setting "Lens drive when AF impossible."
Although Canon recommends "Stop focus search: On" for long teles it's better to leave it in "Continue focus search: On." I missed a number of opportnuties until I figured it out.

EBH

Well how interesting ... I had this one set to on.. then decided it was causing issues so is currently off....

This auto focus configuration is more confusing than a 4 level chess game ... I'm not good at chess either

Many thanks

You folks rock with your help and suggestions .... Think I hit another 800 shots today! Must be one good one in there!!

Cheers

TerryV

Sep 12, 2023 at 07:20 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

LuckyStrike88 wrote:
Continuous AF on ... does that function make the camera sound like something is loose inside the body?

That setting makes the camera/lens combo focus continuously and if you point it at something outside the focus range, you might hear the lens hit its focus range limit, or rack back and forth if it can't lock.

A loose sound could also be the IBIS mechanism. When the camera is off, IBIS will also be off, which means the sensor will be free to shift around within the IBIS mechanism. If you jostle the camera, you'll then hear a rattle. This caught me off guard when I unboxed my brand new R6II back in December. The rattle with that camera was so noticeable compared to the R6 I had used before, it was to the point that I brought it to the attention of the store staff thinking something might be broken inside. Once a charged battery was inserted and the camera turned on, the rattle was gone. Turn off the camera and it's back. The unanimous conclusion has been it's simply the unpowered IBIS unit.

I'm also an ex-1DXII user but can't say I ever experienced the AF delay on start-up you've mentioned with any of the R series bodies I borrowed from CPS, including the R5, or with my own R6 and R6II. I'd be inclined to suggest finding another R5 to compare against yours. Does it happens just when turning on the camera, or also when waking from sleep? If the latter, then I'd suggest lengthening the delay before the camera sleeps so you're not having to constantly wake it and wait through the delay.

Mirrorless is different AF technology than DSLRs and the current Canon mirrorless cameras are only sensitive to lines running in one direction (can't remember if it's vertical or horizontal - I think it's vertical), whereas cameras like the 1DXII had many 'cross' type AF points that would lock onto both horizontal and vertical lines in the subject. I've found for what I shoot (people events and sports) that my R6 and R6II usually snap into focus very affirmatively, but not always. If for some reason AF is having difficulty locking, it will really slow down focus drive and may seem like it's not even focusing. Low contrast can be a factor, but also particularly backlit situations with low contrast subjects can be very problematic compared to DSLRs.

I've been a long-time back button focus user, since the EOS-1 days. But that was because SLR/DSLR AF was not 'smart' like mirrorless. It would just focus on whatever was the closest target within the AF box, so inevitably you'd run into situations where it would refocus on something you didn't want it to focus on. But mirrorless with subject/face/eye detection and tracking is a lot more 'sticky' once it has locked onto the intended subject, to the point where IMO the need for BBF is greatly diminished compared to DSLRs. I'm not sure I'm ready to move away from BBF because it's such an ingrained habit. And I have the back buttons set up for different AF scenarios. But when I shoot sports, I change my second 'grab shot' camera with the short lens on it, to initiate AF with the shutter release so I can just mash it down without having to think about also using BBF when a play suddenly lands in front of me. So far this has worked very well with mirrorless.

Sep 12, 2023 at 08:38 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

LuckyStrike88 wrote:
Continuous AF on ... does that function make the camera sound like something is loose inside the body?

Sure, it is the lens focusing whenever you are pointing the lens in a different direction. It is also needlessly running down your battery.

Sep 12, 2023 at 09:32 PM

FrenchFry
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

Does the camera still take a really long time to turn on if you take out the cards?

Have you seen a difference at all between a freshly formatted card and a card that is mostly full?

And have you tried a different CF Express card at all or just the Angelbird?

Sep 12, 2023 at 09:44 PM

LuckyStrike88
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

FrenchFry wrote:
Does the camera still take a really long time to turn on if you take out the cards? 1

Have you seen a difference at all between a freshly formatted card and a card that is mostly full? 2

And have you tried a different CF Express card at all or just the Angelbird? 3

1 ... hmmm .. yes .. could be the case because I have removed the cards and then gone to take a shot and the camera does nothing .. put a card in the slot and away it goes.

Last week the stalling got worse and worse it seemed each day ... Was totally confusing and I thought the camera had a severe illness! (Today it is working much better since cleaning the contacts and taking advice from the awesome people here!!!

2 No ... These cards are massive 512GB .. 1000 shots barely puts a dent in the capacity.

3.. Afain No It was all I could do to purchase the camera, adapter and the 2 cards (and 2 new card readers) Now I want another lens, maybe a 100-500 or a 500 f4 .... but
It will be a while before I can afford to eat 3 meals a day again ... Great weight loss program .. spend all your savings on Camera gear, then eat 1 or 2 less meals per day.

Call me crazy ... Many others have done so for years!

Sep 12, 2023 at 11:13 PM

action99
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

I use two 1TB ANGELBIRD AV PRO (non SE) on both R5 and R5c and I don't have this problem. Try to low level format on a PC and then format again in the R5 to see if it solves the issue. Also check the CFexpress firmware if is the latest.

I moved from 1Dx II and 1Dx III to R5 (1 month after the R5 release) and the R5 AF is soo much better other than initial AF acquisition when the lens is highly defocused, where the 1Dx is noticeable faster.
My trick is when I see that I'm highly defocused is to pre focus quickly (half press the button) on something close enough to where I expect my subject to be, depress the button and wait for the subject to appear and then repress and hold the button. Is don't use the back button focus, jus the normal trigger button.
I have the face tracking starting not from the whole area but from an AF point it helps picking up the right subject imo.

The first year I used the 200-400 1.4 on a R5 and then moved to 70-200 and 100-500 and recently 100-300 2.8 but I really don't notice a huge difference in AF speed compared to the 200-400.... I have doubts that changing the lens would solve your issue assuming that the 300 2.8 does not have an issue.

Sep 13, 2023 at 03:31 AM

Sy Sez
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

While forums members can often help with specific issues, with Camera's like the R5 there are so many configurations, and adjustments that can affect focusing, that there are no conclusive, "fits all" user advice to satisfy everyone's needs, in detail for every situation.

There are a multitude of U-tube videos to cover all aspects of the EOS RF5 in detail.

"Acquiring Auto Focus on the EOS R5"

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Acquiring+Auto+focus+on+the+EOS+R5+

Sep 13, 2023 at 07:30 AM

rscheffler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

LuckyStrike88 wrote:
2 No ... These cards are massive 512GB .. 1000 shots barely puts a dent in the capacity.

IME it's not just how much space is left, but also how many files are on the card. It could be an 8GB card but with 5,000 small files and it can slow down start up with some cameras.

My understanding is that on start up, the camera checks the card and its contents. If there are a lot of images on the card, it can delay some cameras as they run through the card's file system to verify the contents. For example, my Leica M, if a large capacity card containing thousands of images is installed, it takes the camera some time to complete its start up routine, locking out the user in the meantime. I generally haven't noticed this with my Canon mirrorless cameras unless it's approaching 10,000 images (when I keep a second card in the camera to which I back up youth sports games at tournaments over several days, averaging 5,000 images per day) and even then it's maybe 2-3 seconds and not like what you've described.

I still think a direct comparison against another R5 would be a good idea. If that R5 operates normally, you'd then want to go through the menu settings to compare differences and one by one switch settings on your camera to match the second camera, each time restarting it to determine if the problem persists. Yes, this would be a tedious process, but if it's an errant menu setting, would pinpoint the problem. Otherwise, just do a total reset and start over. I don't recall, have you tried that yet?

Sep 13, 2023 at 09:05 AM

artsupreme
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

Luckystrike,

Reset the camera. Don't change any of the factory settings other than turning off continuous AF and selecting RAW or cRAW. Format your cards. Put it in AI servo and use the single focus point with the 4 small squares around it. Put it in electronic shutter mode and go shoot something very fast coming toward the camera that you can keep the focus point on. You should be able to hit 90% of shots in focus, and the rest might be slightly OOF. If your R5 can do this, then you know you don't have a problem and you can stop wasting your time searching. If it can't, then you know you have a problem.

Be careful with all the youtube videos as a lot of them are just personal preferences. Like back button for example, it's not necessary at all and I wouldn't suggest using it for focus only because it can complicate things during testing. That's my personal preference but everyone's tastes are completely different.

Use your 300 bare for this, around f/4.

Note, what adapter are you using? The problem could be your EF-RF adapter.

Sep 13, 2023 at 09:22 AM

Sy Sez
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Acquiring a focus lock R5

The R5 with its 5 AF Tabs, containing 26 subject selections, most of which have sub-menus containing numerous additional adjustments and/or configurations, equate to literally hundreds of different settings that can collectively affect AF capability.

Without being informed as to those settings, or any specifics, any offered advice can be no more than "hit & miss." guessing.

Sep 13, 2023 at 10:01 AM

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