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Canon R5 II

artsupreme
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Canon R5 II

gdanmitchell wrote:
On the other hand, some of us realized that a "transformative camera" like the R5, as good as it is, wasn't going to fundamentally change our photography, so we continued using what we used before, waiting for an actually "need" to upgrade and to see how things would shake out.

Some in this category — like me — who continued to use prior DSLRs may (we'll see) find that the time is now ripe to move to the R5 successor.

Also, Fwiw, I think that sticking with a 45MP sensor would be seen as "falling behind" at this point — against the backdrop of...Show more →

Dan,

I think keeping the R5 at 45MP is fine but they need to introduce another body for guys like you. This could be in the form of an R5r with 61MP like the A7RV.

R1 flagship - stacked sensor high MP and fast
R5r - non-stacked high MP and slow
R5 - middle MP not-stacked and great all a-rounder
R3 - low MP and super fast
R6 - low MP affordable great all a-rounder

Sep 11, 2023 at 12:42 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Canon R5 II

robinlee wrote:
Here's my take on R5 II:
Stacked sensor - highly unlikely (probably a refined old sensor) - 1/3 stop better in high ISO noise.
Price - between $3,899 to $4,299 - based on the non-stacked sensor.
AF - match or better than R3 without eye focusing
New AF/AI module - likely
Shutter sound - highly likely
Perhaps Canon will give us 30fps
More options on fps - Highly unlikely
Buffer - probably will suffer the same as OG
Video - maybe better heat sink, 60 mins recording limit perhaps? 8K 60fps maybe.... 4K 240fps - unlikely.
1 slot CF Express that may take 4.0 module
1 slot SD card UHS-II

I like it, you could be spot on. But that price if non stacked is going to produce a lot of noise unless there's something that makes the R5II much better than the Z8. One could argue AF, but that's splitting hairs. I agree with you we might not see more fps options as it seems like something they would have already introduced if it was simple to do.

Sep 11, 2023 at 12:46 PM

Mike Jacks0n
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Canon R5 II

It will be interesting. Without a stacked sensor, it will be a tough sell because many will not see a high enough value. But with a stacked sensor it will also be a hard sell at an elevated price. They are in a weird position.

Considering the R6 II went conventional, I'd assume the R5 II will too. So it will likely be a modest update to get a similar AF system to the R6 II/R3/R7, as well as some minor features like better heat management, slightly higher frame rates, CF Express V4 compatibility, and all the other features the lower bodies have that the R5/R6 don't.

Unless it has a significantly better sensor, I don't think there will be a huge demand. Definitely still a solid demand that will sell out, but I don't see anything on the horizon that is a "gotta have" feature. I'm a little biased on the action side of things, so a stacked sensor is about the only thing that will move the needle for me. 60ish MPs is cool, but not a needle mover... however if they were to have gone crazy with resolution that may spin the needle a little.

AF improvements are always welcome, but unless its significant, I'd pass. Personally, I'm not looking for a smaller mini-me body, so a drop in weight is not high on my list. Better battery life would be good, but it also isn't enough to push me to spend another $4,000 buy.

I think they are between a rock and hard place. If you are one to believe they are going with a stacked sensor, you have to understand this decision would have needed to be made more than a year ago (likely 2 years). Well before the Z8 was released and just after the R3's release. That's important because they would have needed to start working on a stacked sensor that would completely cannibalize the R3's future sales, all at a time when there was no competition. This might not matter, as the R1 will likely do the same, but it is worth noting.

Overall... I'm kinda expecting a meh release. I also feel it may be rushed to capitalize on those with more money that need. By simply getting the R5 II out before the R1, a significant number of customers will buy the R5 II and then buy the R1 when its released. This is something I'm almost certain Canon will have considered. So hold off on the GAS if you seriously think the R1 is for you. I'd be willing to bet 2-5 months after release of the R5 II, the R1 will be announced.

Sep 11, 2023 at 01:13 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Canon R5 II

artsupreme wrote:
I think keeping the R5 at 45MP is fine but they need to introduce another body for guys like you. This could be in the form of an R5r with 61MP like the A7RV.

R1 flagship - stacked sensor high MP and fast
R5r - non-stacked high MP and slow
R5 - middle MP not-stacked and great all a-rounder
R3 - low MP and super fast
R6 - low MP affordable great all a-rounder

Makes sense. Sort of the like the 5D series (II, III, IV) and the 5Ds series (5Ds and 5DsR): R5II and R5r (or R5IIr?).

On the other hand, if they could make a R5 with a 45 MP sensor and its other capabilities a few years back, surely they could increase the sensor resolution in a R5II and keep the other performance capabilities, leaving the R3 for the small number of folks for whom that isn't enough.

It will be interesting to see where this ends up.

Sep 11, 2023 at 01:53 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Canon R5 II

gdanmitchell wrote:
Makes sense. Sort of the like the 5D series (II, III, IV) and the 5Ds series (5Ds and 5DsR): R5II and R5r (or R5IIr?).

On the other hand, if they could make a R5 with a 45 MP sensor and its other capabilities a few years back, surely they could increase the sensor resolution in a R5II and keep the other performance capabilities, leaving the R3 for the small number of folks for whom that isn't enough.

It will be interesting to see where this ends up.

I will also mention, the R5r (or whatever the 5DSr replacement is called) should technically be more than the 61MP competition that was released in December 2022. Not sure if they'll exceed that, but I think they should at least match that resolution. Would a nice performing 61MP R5r move the needle for you or do landscape photographers want even more?

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:10 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Canon R5 II

artsupreme wrote:
I will also mention, the R5r (or whatever the 5DSr replacement is called) should technically be more than the 61MP competition that was released in December 2022.

A7R4 with 61mp sensor was released in 2019 ...

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:16 PM

tanikon58
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Canon R5 II

Gentlemen!
R5 II would most likely have dual C Express type B cards
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-specifications-make-the-rounds/

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:18 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Canon R5 II

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:
A7R4 with 61mp sensor was released in 2019 ...

I hear you, and that makes even more of a reason for Canon to exceed 61MP.

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:21 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Canon R5 II

Mike Jacks0n wrote:
Considering the R6 II went conventional, I'd assume the R5 II will too.

Canon managed to deliver just one stacked sensor to the date... Sony Semi delivered stacked sensors for A9/A9II, A1, Z8/Z9, X-H2S, OM-1 (quad pixel AF that one)... why people think that Canon all of sudden will deliver more than one more ( for R1 ) when their business strategy is (A) maximum milk of the faithful and (B) grab the very lowest end ?

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:21 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Canon R5 II

robinlee wrote:
Here's my take on R5 II:
...
AF - match or better than R3 without eye focusing
New AF/AI module - likely
...

there is no "AF/AI module" in dSLM... you either have a better sensor (mostly readout speed) or better CPU (or 2 old ones) or better firmware or a combination ...

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:28 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Canon R5 II

gdanmitchell wrote:
On the other hand, some of us realized that a "transformative camera" like the R5, as good as it is, wasn't going to fundamentally change our photography, so we continued using what we used before, waiting for an actually "need" to upgrade and to see how things would shake out.

Some in this category — like me — who continued to use prior DSLRs may (we'll see) find that the time is now ripe to move to the R5 successor.

Also, Fwiw, I think that sticking with a 45MP sensor would be seen as "falling behind" at this point — against the backdrop of...Show more →

I agree with you - for landscape photographers 45mpx leaves me looking over the fence at fuji and Sony and Nikon. It would be really nice to have a 80mpx + body, that is light (450grams) and without the AA filter. I would not be excited by stacked sensor.

60mpx vs 45 only increases print size/croppability by 15% - that barely moves the dial. 80mpx would enable 33% bigger prints. That would move the dial.

Edited on Sep 11, 2023 at 02:35 PM · View previous versions

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:30 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Canon R5 II

AmbientMike wrote:
Looks like bh has r5 open box $3300 i

street price (CPriceWatch) of R5 is USA is $3099 is for few weeks already and not for open box.

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:33 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Canon R5 II

artsupreme wrote:
I hear you, and that makes even more of a reason for Canon to exceed 61MP.

and not only that... for static targets (reproductions, etc) Sony does have multi-shot

... Canon ? shamefully not even with better IBIS ( which Sony only recently approached in A7RV )

and also A7CR gives you that 61mp + multishot for MSRP of just $3K

Edited on Sep 11, 2023 at 02:38 PM · View previous versions

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:35 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Canon R5 II

Scott Stoness wrote:
I agree with you - for landscape photographers 45mpx leaves me looking over the fence at fuji and Sony and Nikon. It would be really nice to have a 80mpx + body, that is light (450grams) and without the AA filter. I would not be excited by stacked sensor.

60mpx vs 45 only increases print size/croppability by 15% - that barely moves the dial. 80mpx would enable 33% bigger prints. That would move the dial.

I think 80MP should be easy for Canon but whether they do it or not is anyone's guess.

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:36 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Canon R5 II

tanikon58 wrote:
Gentlemen!
R5 II would most likely have dual C Express type B cards
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-specifications-make-the-rounds/

This looks more like an R1 spec to me

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:41 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Canon R5 II

artsupreme wrote:
I think 80MP should be easy for Canon but whether they do it or not is anyone's guess.

Canon is handicapped w/ price for DPAF ... they need to make 160mp sensor for 80mp - just like with R3... they had to make 48mp stacked sensor to deliver just 24mp of goodies

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:41 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Canon R5 II

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:
Canon is handicapped w/ price for DPAF ... they need to make 160mp sensor for 80mp

Okay, so what are your sensor predictions for the R5II and the R5r (High MP camera)?

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:42 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Canon R5 II

artsupreme wrote:
This looks more like an R1 spec to me

this is even unrated rumor ... we can stop copying that and invent our own rumors here

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:43 PM

exdeejjjaaaa
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Canon R5 II

artsupreme wrote:
Okay, so what are your sensor predictions for the R5II and the R5r (High MP camera)?

what do I know ?

I bet on 2 cameras... one is R1 for Olympics which need try to be better than A1/Z9 - which will be easier for Canon to achieve if is 45mp stacked sensor, which later ( like years later ) can be recycled to lower tiers (R3II for a start) once faithful are milked properly and one 5Ds/r equivalent in R5 body - easier to charge former R5 price w/o stacked sensor but with good increase in MP - Canon still can use their own FSI ( not BSI ... R5 sensor is that old good FSI still ) tech, people will not expect stacked sensor level AF and FPS from that camera - so easier to charge more money (like what was retail for R5) w/o direct comparison vs Z8 retail price (in case they care) and Canon can continue to peddle R5 @ reduced price still... that is what Sony does - they sell multiple generations

IMHO it takes more effort to release direct 45mp successor for R5 than R5s/r-type successor for 5Ds/r ... and we shall wish for that because if it will not be a direct successor of R5 then we might indeed get v2 firmware... which will be the ideal deal for us all

Sep 11, 2023 at 02:49 PM

artsupreme
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Canon R5 II

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:
what do I know ?

I bet on 2 cameras... one is R1 for Olympics which need try to be better than A1/Z9 - which will be easier for Canon to achieve if is 45mp stacked sensor, which later ( like years later ) can be recycled to lower tiers (R3II for a start) once faithful are milked properly and one 5Ds/r equivalent in R5 body - easier to charge former R5 price w/o stacked sensor but with good increase in MP - Canon still can use their own FSI ( not BSI ... R5 sensor is that old good FSI...Show more →

I hear you, so something possibly like this:

R1 flagship - 45MP stacked sensor, very fast dual Cfe - $6k range
R5r - non-stacked 61MP and slow - $3800 range
R5 - non-stacked 45MP and great all a-rounder - $3600 range
R3 - 24MP stacked sensor, super fast and reduced price closer to $4K range
R6 - 24MP affordable great all a-rounder - $2499
R7- 32.5MP budget crop
R8 - 24MP budget FF

Sep 11, 2023 at 03:04 PM

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