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Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

freaklikeme
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

jwolfe wrote:
Well considering I was a journalist for 20 years and worked with Nikon you don’t know what you’re talking about. The only “contract” they have is the AP. And like I said that’s a few thousand cameras. The AP doesn’t dictate anything. And they change brands all the time.

Sony didn’t develop the A9 for the AP. They developed it as the first stacked sensor camera with input from all kinds of photographers. I have several friends that were are part of working with Sony. It was at the time their flagship camera. Same as the A1 is now.

That's one side of the business, yes. My background until my recent career change was is sales engineering and product development, and I know those contracts are much more valuable than the sales they directly generate.

Sep 07, 2023 at 08:10 PM

jwolfe
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

The A9ii like the A1 was released with input from hundreds of pro shooters. Not the AP. Sure they were in the mix. But you clearly have no idea how camera development or media organizations work. Those contracts are bids. And like 99% of still media shooters are either using their own gear or whatever brand their employer has used for years. Most of the shooters on the sidelines now are freelancers or contractors that use their own gear.

I also happen to be friends with a few guys that helped Sony work on the A9. The AP contract didn’t come along till years later. And that camera was not designed as a news camera specifically.

chez wrote:
The A92 had a lot of good input from the likes of AP and the features released reflect that. I also believe there are a few more photo journalism organizations associated with Sony, not just AP.

Sep 07, 2023 at 08:15 PM

jwolfe
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

Sony does not make money on the AP contract. All it is is a PR piece. Most news organizations don’t have contracts.

freaklikeme wrote:
That's one side of the business, yes. My background until my recent career change was is sales engineering and product development, and I know those contracts are much more valuable than the sales they directly generate.

Sep 07, 2023 at 08:16 PM

freaklikeme
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

jwolfe wrote:
Sony does not make money on the AP contract. All it is is a PR piece. Most news organizations don’t have contracts.

It's not PR. It is 100% marketing.

Sep 07, 2023 at 08:22 PM

jwolfe
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

Ok I’ll agree with that. Either way, it’s not about making money from the AP.

freaklikeme wrote:
It's not PR. It is 100% marketing.

Sep 07, 2023 at 08:23 PM

molson
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

j4nu wrote:
It has Nikon's equivalent of Variable Shutter -> High-Frequency Flicker Reduction.
Besides, A1 also doesn't have (full) mechanical shutter...

What happens when you set the EFCS to "off"...

Sep 07, 2023 at 09:41 PM

aCuria
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

The RX100 VII has a stacked sensor

So does the telezoom variant

Sep 07, 2023 at 11:36 PM

j4nu
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

molson wrote:
What happens when you set the EFCS to "off"...

There's no EFCS in the menu

...

Sep 08, 2023 at 02:06 AM

1bwana1
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

jwolfe wrote:
You have to understand that Sony is not Canon. They don’t have a worldwide support ecosystem anywhere near what Canon does. And unless something changed, they don’t do repairs in-house. Canon probably did make some money when they had the contract.

But the level of support required for the AP is enormous. You’re talking about photographers in practically every country in the world. And if something breaks those guys need a replacement tomorrow. That doesn’t even take into account the level of support and spares for an event like the Olympics.

And then you’ve got to consider the enormous discounts...Show more →

That is a much more moderate and reasonable statement. I read that a saying that it seems reasonable based on your experience in the industry that it is difficult for companies to make profits from such contracts. You accept that Canon likey was able to make profit because of their extensive network of facilities. You doubt that Sony can replicate that.

Your opinion based on your experience. But that is a big step from saying that you know for sure Sony lost money on the AP deal.

It was also incorrect to say that Sony didn't make similar deals with other PJ organization. That is objectively provable as untrue.

Search for Sony's deal with PA Media in the UK as just one example.

Sep 08, 2023 at 06:04 PM

chiron
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

aCuria wrote:
The RX100 VII has a stacked sensor

So does the telezoom variant

I hadn't realized this camera has a stacked sensor. I've been tempted by it before as a pocketable take anywhere camera that can grab a lot of different types of scenes.

I've always been put off by its one-inch sensor. But I also remind myself that two of my favorite photographers, Saul Leiter and Frank Horvat, both used small sensor pocketable digital cameras instead of their Leicas to make beautiful and striking images. Horvat shot at least an image a day for a year with such a camera and published the results in "1999: A Daily Report." Leiter also made many beautiful images using a small sensor Panasonic pocketable.

The RX100VII is currently out of stock at B&H, as it often it.

Sep 08, 2023 at 07:07 PM

Roosterdad
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I don’t need more MP, it would be nice but not needed. If Sony repackaged an a9ii in an a9c body with all the new AI features I would buy that instantly.

Sep 09, 2023 at 09:49 PM

swldstn
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

Craig Gillette wrote:
Sony could put that sensor used in the Fuji X-H2S, even if not going all the way to 40 fps, in an A6700 type body. There's about $1000 between the A6700 price and the X-H2S so a reasonable price increase probably wouldn't be unbearable.

Do you think Sony agreed to delay an APS-C stacked sensor into the market to give Fuji some room. May have been a requirement by Fuji if they payed for the development?

Sep 11, 2023 at 09:12 PM

Craig Gillette
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

swldstn wrote:
Do you think Sony agreed to delay an APS-C stacked sensor into the market to give Fuji some room. May have been a requirement by Fuji if they payed for the development?

Beats me.

I'd like to think Fuji using current tech and having prices creeping into the lower end of FF, and the A6700 looking to be popular and reasonably priced, that there's another higher performance Sony aps-c out there. they've followed aps-c releases with a higher performing model fairly quickly at times in the past.

Sep 11, 2023 at 11:50 PM

jwpstl
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

swldstn wrote:
Do you think Sony agreed to delay an APS-C stacked sensor into the market to give Fuji some room. May have been a requirement by Fuji if they payed for the development?

I don't think Sony has any interest in making a stacked sensor APS-C camera. If they had the tech and were interested they would have been first to market.

Sep 12, 2023 at 10:33 AM

Knut.
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

My prediction would be:

Sony APSC will get a budget stacked sensor first (like RX 100 VII)

- 6700 readout time is not bad: 15,9ms for 4K
For perspective (A1):
- 8,1ms readout time for 4k
- 16,6ms readout time for 8k (8k = 43mp)

So Sony 7000 will most likely have the first stacked sensor for APSC with an APSC readout time of roughly 8ms.

The successor to the A7R5 (future A7R6) will more likely be geared towards higher resolution and have 100mp or even 150mp, but as a photo-centric camera no stacked sensor.

A1/A1ii will be their 50mp stacked sensor all round camera for the time being (at least until the prices for stacked sensors come down considerably (5-6 years?)

A9 will stay the sports camera, possibly increasing megapixels to 30-40, but the main emphasis will be increasing the framerate furher (30? 40?). This will limit future price reductions for the A9iii or A9iv.

Sep 12, 2023 at 10:36 AM

Knut.
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

Of course this is no comfort to A7r5 users with a readout speed of slightly under 100ms.
But it appears to be really difficult to get 1) high megapixel counts + 2) large sensors + 3) fast readout speeds all into one package.

High readout speeds also seem to go against better color. The 50mp stacked sensor in the A1 is not bad, but the 61mp sensor in the A7r5 appears to be slightly better.

Sep 12, 2023 at 10:45 AM

jojib
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

Knut. wrote:
My prediction would be:

Sony APSC will get a budget stacked sensor first (like RX 100 VII)

- 6700 readout time is not bad: 15,9ms for 4K
For perspective (A1):
- 8,1ms readout time for 4k
- 16,6ms readout time for 8k (8k = 43mp)

So Sony 7000 will most likely have the first stacked sensor for APSC with an APSC readout time of roughly 8ms.

Hope you are right, I am wishing for that too. With the superb software nowadays i.e. Photoshop DeNoise, DXO PL6 Elite with Prime XD, Topaz AI and Photoshop Neural Filter to blur the background with the Depth Blur filter---I think I...Show more →

Sep 12, 2023 at 08:54 PM

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