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Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

GMPhotography
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

snapsy wrote:
I agree there's utility for the quiet operation of an electronic shutter on a stacked sensor without the advanced AF and faster frame rates it also provides but unfortunately the current cost of the sensor makes the camera unmarketable if those other value-add features aren't also provided. So I think the only options are to 1) Find third-party silencer solutions to shoot quieter with EFCS on existing non-stacked sensor offerings, 2) Get by with the lower res of an A9, and/or 3) Wait for the price of stacked sensors to come down and become the norm.

It’s pretty simple fix the A1 to the new A7RV standards and drop the price to 4800 but that won’t happen. The A1 sold well so not sure the money has much to do with it.

Sep 07, 2023 at 04:13 PM

jojib
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

If Sony will ever launch a flagship APS-C A7000 with a stacked sensor for $ 2250 I'll likely get one. Having said that I am really happy with the A6700's readout speed. I've been using ES for movement/action shots a lot. So I can wait for that stacked sensor camera that I could afford.

Sep 07, 2023 at 04:25 PM

maestrofilms
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I honestly wonder if they ever will because many people, including me, would probably buy 2 or 3 and sell all their full frame gear.

I wouldn't think twice about it. With AI noise reduction, noise is practically irrelevant anymore. Programs can enhance blur even now, and do it convincingly.

I was really hoping.

jojib wrote:
If Sony will ever launch a flagship APS-C A7000 with a stacked sensor for $ 2250 I'll likely get one. Having said that I am really happy with the A6700's readout speed. I've been using ES for movement/action shots a lot. So I can wait for that stacked sensor camera that I could afford.

Sep 07, 2023 at 04:31 PM

liggy
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I would love a apsc stacked sensor 33-40 mp beast from Sony with the RV AI subject recognition. Maybe roughly the same size of the original A7. Not a fan of the A6xxx body style.

That would be a cool camera.

They could be the most expensive apsc camera at let’s say $4500 or so and done right it would still be worth it. It would be an instant preorder for me.

Noise means nothing to me these days with software as good as it is now so sensor size is not as big a deal imo as it used to be. Even bokeh seems easy to fake these days in post. Just getting the shot should be the priority.

I do find it interesting that to my knowledge none of the AI trained software seems to have a banding preset. Neo has a power line preset - why not one for banding?

In any event - Sony doesn’t seem to be shy about having way too many models for sale at any given time so why not just one more? 😛

Sep 07, 2023 at 04:36 PM

freaklikeme
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I think we should keep in mind the a9 series is more a "contractual obligation" camera than something meant to compete directly with, for example, Nikon's Z8 in the open marketplace. Whatever goes into the next model will be dictated by the news agencies buying them in bulk, and, from the chatter I've picked up at trade shows, significantly higher resolution sensors aren't high on their list of demands.

I think Sony missed an opportunity with the a7cII. The 33MP sensor is fantastic, no doubt, but, if they'd gone with the 24MP stacked sensor from the a9II and pulled a Nikon and made the camera shutterless to keep the costs down? Obviously, they'd cripple hammer the FPS for stills and enforce some needless crops on the highest video frame rates to keep it humble, but I think that would've opened up a lot more interest in the model.

Right now, all I really want is an FX30II with the 26MP stacked sensor. That would make my favorite video camera perfect.

Sep 07, 2023 at 05:50 PM

jojib
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

maestrofilms wrote:
I honestly wonder if they ever will because many people, including me, would probably buy 2 or 3 and sell all their full frame gear.

I wouldn't think twice about it. With AI noise reduction, noise is practically irrelevant anymore. Programs can enhance blur even now, and do it convincingly.

I was really hoping.

Ditto, noise reduction is no longer an issue---heck I have three programs to choose from: Photoshop DeNoise, DXO Prime XD and Topaz AI.

Yeah and for blurring the background more---Photoshop Neural Filter----depth blur does a fantastic job.

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:05 PM

jwolfe
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

You know this kind of stuff is hilarious. If you think camera companies let news media dictate to them, or that they could make a profit selling like a few thousand cameras to the AP you’re nuts.

Nikon, Canon and Sony all work with professional photographers to develop cameras. And they all work with journalists. But it’s not a contractual obligation. It’s because they want to be leaders in tech.

No camera company could survive trying to live off of news media sales.

freaklikeme wrote:
I think we should keep in mind the a9 series is more a "contractual obligation" camera than something meant to compete directly with, for example, Nikon's Z8 in the open marketplace. Whatever goes into the next model will be dictated by the news agencies buying them in bulk, and, from the chatter I've picked up at trade shows, significantly higher resolution sensors aren't high on their list of demands.

I think Sony missed an opportunity with the a7cII. The 33MP sensor is fantastic, no doubt, but, if they'd gone with the 24MP stacked sensor from the a9II and pulled a...Show more →

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:10 PM

chez
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

maestrofilms wrote:
I honestly wonder if they ever will because many people, including me, would probably buy 2 or 3 and sell all their full frame gear.

I wouldn't think twice about it. With AI noise reduction, noise is practically irrelevant anymore. Programs can enhance blur even now, and do it convincingly.

I was really hoping.

If you would sell all your full frame gear, I’d seriously look at the OM system. If you can’t see a difference between full frame and apsc, maybe you would not see a difference going m3rd’s.

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:13 PM

maestrofilms
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

chez wrote:
If you would sell all your full frame gear, I’d seriously look at the OM system. If you can’t see a difference between full frame and apsc, maybe you would not see a difference going m3rd’s.

I actually sat down and did the math one night on exactly that! 😄

That OM-1 looks awesome. But, believe it or not, there was not enough weight savings with the lenses to make it worthwhile. The OM-1 is almost the same weight as a full frame camera, and there are so many tiny full frame primes now.

Something the same size as the a6700 with a stacked sensor is the only path I see that makes it worthwhile.

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:18 PM

chez
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

maestrofilms wrote:
I actually sat down and did the math one night on exactly that! 😄

That OM-1 looks awesome. But, believe it or not, there was not enough weight savings with the lenses to make it worthwhile. The OM-1 is almost the same weight as a full frame camera, and there are so many tiny full frame primes now.

Something the same size as the a6700 with a stacked sensor is the only path I see that makes it worthwhile.

Wonder if putting a stacked sensor into that tight of a package is even feasible. Heat issues comes to mind.

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:45 PM

ramesesthe2nd
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I would buy A1C with latest AI AF for $4000 in a heart beat. Sony, please make it happen.

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:47 PM

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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

Personally I hope Sony takes the sensor they are making for Fuji and makes a sports and wildlife camera with it. But I just think the market is so small now that might never happen.

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:49 PM

joychris
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

jojib wrote:
If Sony will ever launch a flagship APS-C A7000 with a stacked sensor for $ 2250 I'll likely get one. Having said that I am really happy with the A6700's readout speed. I've been using ES for movement/action shots a lot. So I can wait for that stacked sensor camera that I could afford.

They’re never going to do the mythical a7000, the a6700 is as good as it gets. Next will be the cheap plastic a6200 using the ancient OG battery and getting some AI. Sony execs have repeatedly said the aps-c line is all about being compact. Look at how long it took for a front dial. The basic design goes back more than a decade. The a6700 is the flagship.

Chris

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:49 PM

ramesesthe2nd
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

chez wrote:
Wonder if putting a stacked sensor into that tight of a package is even feasible. Heat issues comes to mind.

Smaller sensor area should produce less heat, so it shouldn't be a problem, but it is unlikely that Sony will produce such a camera. There is not much demand for such a camera. Also stacked sensor is a luxury item at the moment, so Sony isn't going to put stacked sensor in a "non-pro" camera at sub $2K price point.

Sep 07, 2023 at 06:53 PM

GMPhotography
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I really like the 6700 as not much is missing from it. For 1400 it’s a nice package

Sep 07, 2023 at 07:01 PM

chez
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I don’t think I’d makes much use of a stacked sensor…at least I would not want to pay a premium for one. I’d much rather Sony build sensors with focus on dynamic range and colour tonal range and stuff them into nice compact cameras.

Sep 07, 2023 at 07:36 PM

freaklikeme
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

jwolfe wrote:
You know this kind of stuff is hilarious. If you think camera companies let news media dictate to them, or that they could make a profit selling like a few thousand cameras to the AP you’re nuts.

Nikon, Canon and Sony all work with professional photographers to develop cameras. And they all work with journalists. But it’s not a contractual obligation. It’s because they want to be leaders in tech.

No camera company could survive trying to live off of news media sales.

It's not a question of survival. If their survival hinged on the a9 sales, it'd be different, but it's as niche a line as the a7s. What any manufacturer depends on from large contracts with the press associations is advertising, both in announcing the partnership and in getting their brands picked up on broadcast video at major sporting and like press events. So I don't think it's laughable to say the a9III won't do anything to rock the boat established with those contracts.

Sep 07, 2023 at 07:42 PM

jwolfe
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

Well considering I was a journalist for 20 years and worked with Nikon you don’t know what you’re talking about. The only “contract” they have is the AP. And like I said that’s a few thousand cameras. The AP doesn’t dictate anything. And they change brands all the time.

Sony didn’t develop the A9 for the AP. They developed it as the first stacked sensor camera with input from all kinds of photographers. I have several friends that were are part of working with Sony. It was at the time their flagship camera. Same as the A1 is now.

freaklikeme wrote:
It's not a question of survival. If their survival hinged on the a9 sales, it'd be different, but it's as niche a line as the a7s. What any manufacturer depends on from large contracts with the press associations is advertising, both in announcing the partnership and in getting their brands picked up on broadcast video at major sporting and like press events. So I don't think it's laughable to say the a9III won't do anything to rock the boat established with those contracts.

Sep 07, 2023 at 07:53 PM

chez
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

jwolfe wrote:
Well considering I was a journalist for 20 years and worked with Nikon you don’t know what you’re talking about. The only “contract” they have is the AP. And like I said that’s a few thousand cameras. The AP doesn’t dictate anything. And they change brands all the time.

Sony didn’t develop the A9 for the AP. They developed it as the first stacked sensor camera with input from all kinds of photographers. I have several friends that were are part of working with Sony. It was at the time their flagship camera. Same as the A1 is now.

The A92 had a lot of good input from the likes of AP and the features released reflect that. I also believe there are a few more photo journalism organizations associated with Sony, not just AP.

Sep 07, 2023 at 08:00 PM

GMPhotography
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Sony: a stacked-sensor camera w/ hi-rez, moderate-size/price

I worked for AP for a year or so but strictly as a freelancer but that’s when Nikon was more the rule than anything else. Plus yYOU owned your own gear.

Sep 07, 2023 at 08:10 PM

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