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Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

bigwave
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

Hi Canon shooters,

My daughter is now on the high-school volleyball team and I will be photographing a lot.
What's a reasonable amateur setup for photographing indoor Volleyball and/or Basketball?

I'm looking for a lightweight setup and can tolerate some inconvenience to keep the cost down.
Currently shooting FX on classic Nikon pro glass (24-70, 70-200) with an old D700. I have a full stable of FX/DX lenses but these don't seem optimal for mirrorless - hence the Canon consideration.

What body would you recommend? (R50? R7, R6 etc..)

What wide zoom would fit the bill to cover say 24-300mm FX equivalent? (is there one that you consider a "gem" amongst the thorns?)

I'd like to improve on the old sensor which can get me to 1/800s @f/2.8 @ISO2400. I've considered upgrading the body but am really looking for a lightweight setup. Manual mode is a must.

Thanks,
Dave

Sep 01, 2023 at 03:10 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

R8 ($1500) and 2nd hand canon EF 24-70 f2.8 $1200 adapted and EF 70-200 2.8 ($100) is my recommendation.

R8 because it's good at high iso (ff is better in high iso and newer is better), the least expensive ff camera with really good video, 40fps, great a/f. The only downsides of r8 is no built in IBIS but you don't need it for volley ball and soccer where lens have IS. Going beyond r8 is overkill. Going beyond 24mpx for sport is not necessary - good is in focussed and noise is not as critical.

70-200 because usually you are up in the stands and this is a good range. f2.8 because the light is low. f4 constant 70-200 iS would also work and be a little less $.

24-70 f2.8 because its f2.8. This would likely be your 2nd most used lens. You could get by with v1 if you want to save money. This would be good when you are on court for near shooting.

You have Nikon. There is little difference between Canon, Sony or Nikon. But I don't know the Nikon lens well.

Sep 01, 2023 at 06:22 PM

robsuh
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

I'd recommend staying with Nikon and get the ZTF adapter. Those lenses would be a great start.

Maybe Nikon Z50 can do 11 FPS.

Nikon Z 85mm 1.8S goes for about $700.

On the Canon side, R7 ($1400) with the 85mm F2 ($400) would be my "budget" pick.

Canon and Sony have great AF with their Eye AF, but you don't really need that with sports and with DoF for volleyball. The Nikon AF should be more than fine.

Are you going to be shooting from the stands or can you move around the court?

Sep 01, 2023 at 07:03 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

I feel like I can go into the gym with a Rebel + 50/1.8, shoot 300+ photos, and get something good enough for yearbook. You probably don't want to go that budget or light, really I think you should just upgrade your nikon body. Even a D750, D4, or maybe even D7200 should be a sizable upgrade.

If you want to go Canon maybe R6 + 70-200/2.8 non IS, or v2 IS if you can afford it.

Sep 02, 2023 at 12:10 AM

Mike_5D
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

AmbientMike wrote:
I feel like I can go into the gym with a Rebel + 50/1.8, shoot 300+ photos, and get something good enough for yearbook. You probably don't want to go that budget or light, really I think you should just upgrade your nikon body. Even a D750, D4, or maybe even D7200 should be a sizable upgrade.

If you want to go Canon maybe R6 + 70-200/2.8 non IS, or v2 IS if you can afford it.

Agreed. I've only shot one youth BB game years ago with a 5D3 and 70-200 2.8. I was at 1/1000sec, f/2.8, ISO 12800 and wound up pushing most of the shots 0.3-0.5 stops in post. The exposure in the first post indicates much better lighting than I had to work with. He's already got good Nikon glass and it'll cost a small fortune to swap to Canon RF. He wants a smaller setup, but fast zooms are generally big and heavy in any system, the exception being the RF 70-200 2.8 which is very expensive.

I'm not familiar with Nikon's lineup but I looked up his camera. It's 12MP and from 2008 so even something from 2018 would likely be a big upgrade and way cheaper than changing systems.

I wouldn't recommend any superzoom for indoor sports. The apertures are just too slow. I love my 24-240 but I'd never attempt indoor BB with it.

Sep 02, 2023 at 01:42 AM

bigwave
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

Nikon is similar for the pro line just called "VR" or "VFII" lens. I've got those FX (mirrored) lenses for Niknon.

Scott Stoness wrote:
R8 ($1500) and 2nd hand canon EF 24-70 f2.8 $1200 adapted and EF 70-200 2.8 ($100) is my recommendation.

R8 because it's good at high iso (ff is better in high iso and newer is better), the least expensive ff camera with really good video, 40fps, great a/f. The only downsides of r8 is no built in IBIS but you don't need it for volley ball and soccer where lens have IS. Going beyond r8 is overkill. Going beyond 24mpx for sport is not necessary - good is in focussed and noise is not as critical.

Sep 02, 2023 at 03:15 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

Interesting idea with the 85mm
I can move around. no problem. So far, I'm shooting up in the stands (though pretty tight quarters indoors) with the 70-200 and from the floor with the 24-70 which I'm finding very satisfying.
200+ lets me shoot through the net which is nice (though I've got to fiddle with focus modes/manual focus to manage DOF.

I considered the ZTF adapter but that gets me about the same package weight as my d700 sans battery grip - maybe worth reconsidering.

Canon R7 or R6 looked pretty good on paper but the lenses..ugh...fast glass is fast gla$$.

I don't know much about Sony.

-D

robsuh wrote:
I'd recommend staying with Nikon and get the ZTF adapter. Those lenses would be a great start.

Maybe Nikon Z50 can do 11 FPS.

Nikon Z 85mm 1.8S goes for about $700.

On the Canon side, R7 ($1400) with the 85mm F2 ($400) would be my "budget" pick.

Canon and Sony have great AF with their Eye AF, but you don't really need that with sports and with DoF for volleyball. The Nikon AF should be more than fine.

Are you going to be shooting from the stands or can you move around the court?

Sep 02, 2023 at 03:21 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

Yup, default is just keeping my FX traditional. as of now, in surveying lens options, it seems to make the most sense to keep the fast glass I've got and go with the D750 -- D750 seems like a no-brainer (cost wise). (Nikon only made one 'pro' lens AFAIK for DX/APS/C format (equivalent to 24-70FX). I used the D7000 the other night and it's just too long with the 70-200. 24-70 was ok but not ideal.

Mike_5D wrote:
Agreed. I've only shot one youth BB game years ago with a 5D3 and 70-200 2.8. I was at 1/1000sec, f/2.8, ISO 12800 and wound up pushing most of the shots 0.3-0.5 stops in post. The exposure in the first post indicates much better lighting than I had to work with. He's already got good Nikon glass and it'll cost a small fortune to swap to Canon RF. He wants a smaller setup, but fast zooms are generally big and heavy in any system, the exception being the RF 70-200 2.8 which is very expensive.

I'm not familiar with Nikon's lineup...Show more →

Sep 02, 2023 at 03:31 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

Yeah, I was hoping to lighten the load but it seems unless I want to go full pro-glass mirrorless upgrade that makes the most sense.

With Nikon Z body what I lose in weight, I gained all but 100g in the ZTF adapter (no free lunch..).
Still I would get a modern sensor at modest cost and without the battery grep it's fine.
Interestingly the thing that took me away from FF/FX pro bodies was travel - so many great options for compact operation with great glass -- I went with Fuji for about the past 8 years. Very liberating but you gotta work for your Sports shots in compromising situations :-)

-D

AmbientMike wrote:
I feel like I can go into the gym with a Rebel + 50/1.8, shoot 300+ photos, and get something good enough for yearbook. You probably don't want to go that budget or light, really I think you should just upgrade your nikon body. Even a D750, D4, or maybe even D7200 should be a sizable upgrade.

If you want to go Canon maybe R6 + 70-200/2.8 non IS, or v2 IS if you can afford it.

Sep 02, 2023 at 03:37 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

ISO 12800!! -- I was right on the bubble at 1/800s at f2.8 ISO 3200 I could go to a /1200s without loosing much.
Lighting is good for a HS gym. I think i can get good ISO6400 on a D750

Back in my high-school days I used to shoot football using Tri-X or Ilford HP5 and push that to 1600 (could push the Ilford to 32 but a bit too much grain). With 1600 that I could manage 1/125th at night under the lights using a f3.5 Vivitar 70-210 zoom (those were the days..loved that zoom) you had to be really good at panning shots--pan,zoom,focus in one continuous move :-).

PS: Nikon pro lens choices pretty much match Canon.

-Dave

Mike_5D wrote:
Agreed. I've only shot one youth BB game years ago with a 5D3 and 70-200 2.8. I was at 1/1000sec, f/2.8, ISO 12800 and wound up pushing most of the shots 0.3-0.5 stops in post. The exposure in the first post indicates much better lighting than I had to work with. He's already got good Nikon glass and it'll cost a small fortune to swap to Canon RF. He wants a smaller setup, but fast zooms are generally big and heavy in any system, the exception being the RF 70-200 2.8 which is very expensive.

I'm not familiar with Nikon's lineup...Show more →

Sep 02, 2023 at 03:45 PM

Mike_5D
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

bigwave wrote:
ISO 12800!! -- I was right on the bubble at 1/800s at f2.8 ISO 3200 I could go to a /1200s without loosing much.
Lighting is good for a HS gym. I think i can get good ISO6400 on a D750

Back in my high-school days I used to shoot football using Tri-X or Ilford HP5 and push that to 1600 (could push the Ilford to 32 but a bit too much grain). With 1600 that I could manage 1/125th at night under the lights using a f3.5 Vivitar 70-210 zoom (those were the days..loved that zoom) you had to be really...Show more →

And that was the newer gym with better lighting. The one where my daughter played indoor soccer often had a light or two out, so I was at 1/640, f/2.8, ISO 20k and still wound up pushing it a little. That's actually very similar to exposures at the city field where she played flag football last spring at night. Thankfully the R6 handles noise much better than the 5D3 did.

Sep 02, 2023 at 04:01 PM

jedibrain
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

135 f/2 is also a good lens for indoors. The canon EF is cheap (relatively), but can't get full speed in mechanical shutter mode on the new bodies.

Sigma has a big,heavy but optically excellent alternative.

Nikon may have a good one as well to work with your current body.

Sep 02, 2023 at 04:04 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

bigwave wrote:
Yeah, I was hoping to lighten the load but it seems unless I want to go full pro-glass mirrorless upgrade that makes the most sense.

With Nikon Z body what I lose in weight, I gained all but 100g in the ZTF adapter (no free lunch..).
Still I would get a modern sensor at modest cost and without the battery grep it's fine.
Interestingly the thing that took me away from FF/FX pro bodies was travel - so many great options for compact operation with great glass -- I went with Fuji for about the past 8 years. Very liberating but...Show more →

Yeah, fuji's probably not bad, you could probably use it especially if you have f/2 or faster glass. Some sort of misstated iso issue though, not sure what's going on there. Haven't shot basketball recently but I probably used 1600-3200 at 1.8, the gym had flicker though so all the sudden you're underexposed ~1.5 stopson some frames.

I'm sure the Rf 70-200/2.8 is lighter, but like @Mike_5D said too, it's expensive, it was $2700 new. R6 $1600 recently but j think it's gone back up, of course the fast nikon mirrorless the z8 and z9 start at about $4k. So you might be able to get used R6 + Rf 70-200/2.8 for that.

I think by 2010 or so the ISO really got a lot better. I don't consider 6400 too bad on aps even on 60D, using good NR, so the D4 could be fine, probably others too like D810..

Sep 02, 2023 at 04:31 PM

tr1957
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

I'm seeing the Z6/Z6ii/Z5 as being 350 to 400 grams lighter than a D700. Even with the 125 gm FTZ adapter you're still saving around 250 grams (over a half pound).

Edited on Sep 02, 2023 at 05:27 PM · View previous versions

Sep 02, 2023 at 04:43 PM

snegron7
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

I was a Nikon shooter for many years. My last Nikon was a D750. I had a bunch of nice lenses, mostly AF-D series with only two or three S and G series lenses. My issue with going from my D750 to mirrorless (Z) was that none of my AF-D lenses would auto focus on a new Z body via the adapter. Only AF-S and G series lenses would provide autofocus.

I ended up having 4 full frame cameras at the same time; Nikon D750, Canon 6dmk2, Canon R6 and Sony A7c. The AF and IQ of the R6 and A7c were light years ahead of the D750 and 6dmk2. I ended up keeping just the R6 (kicking myself for having sold the A7c, but that's a story for another time).

The AF tracking on the R6 alone is worth the switch, especially for locking on to fast-paced subjects at volleyball games. Also, the cleaner images (better low light performance, less noise) of the R6 are a major advantage over the D750.

The great thing about Canon is that with their cheap $99 EF/RF adapter, you can fit any EF lens onto an R series camera, and it will work perfectly, including AF (unlike Nikon).

The only Sony I had was an A7c, so I can't speak for "the bigger boys" (A74, A9 series, etc). However, when pixel peeping, the images from my A7c were slightly better in terms of detail capture than my R6. My main reason for selling my A7c was because there are no compact, full frame, AF 16mm lenses for Sony. Viltrox just came out with a 16mm, but it is huge. I am seriously considering the idea of buying an A7c again as a back up travel camera, but I digress. Stick with Canon. You will be pleasantly surprised at how well they perform!

Sep 02, 2023 at 05:17 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

AmbientMike wrote:
Yeah, fuji's probably not bad, you could probably use it especially if you have f/2 or faster glass. Some sort of misstated iso issue though, not sure what's going on there. Haven't shot basketball recently but I probably used 1600-3200 at 1.8, the gym had flicker though so all the sudden you're underexposed ~1.5 stopson some frames.

I'm sure the Rf 70-200/2.8 is lighter, but like @Mike_5D@ said too, it's expensive, it was $2700 new. R6 $1600 recently but j think it's gone back up, of course the fast nikon mirrorless the z8 and z9 start at about $4k. So you...Show more →

All my fast fuji glass is wide. For sure about 2010 the D700 was incredible for its time and I still love the images it produces. There's a D780 but still premium prices and just a shade better low light performance . I think D750 and D810 are about the same vintage with nearly identical sensitivity according to dxomark. Looks like getting into Canon would be a Big Gulp to get near the performance i've got.

-D

Sep 02, 2023 at 06:44 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

snegron7 wrote:
I was a Nikon shooter for many years. My last Nikon was a D750. I had a bunch of nice lenses, mostly AF-D series with only two or three S and G series lenses. My issue with going from my D750 to mirrorless (Z) was that none of my AF-D lenses would auto focus on a new Z body via the adapter. Only AF-S and G series lenses would provide autofocus.

I ended up having 4 full frame cameras at the same time; Nikon D750, Canon 6dmk2, Canon R6 and Sony A7c. The AF and IQ of the R6 and...Show more →

I appreciate the insight and commentary.

One of my buddies is a Canon shooter but also got off the gear train shortly after his daughter the Volleyball player and Son the College football player graduated. That focus performance is worth a lot. I found myself using manual focus a bit with the Nikon 70-200 f/2.8, especially when shooting through a net .. or working around it by shifting the spot focus below the net.

My reason for considering a switch was the generation change to lighter mirrorless for a 'better' action camera. By the time you get pro glass on the (mirrorless) body and add a battery grip to improve the ergonomics of hand holding a heavy, long lens, the delta isn't too much and APS/C doesn't offer the optics choices. It appears my easy (cheap) solution for now is a used D750 but I do want to try that Canon setup. Moral of the story being.."sell you gear when you're done using it.." The older Nikon glass is worth a lot less on eBay now.

-D

Sep 02, 2023 at 07:18 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

tr1957 wrote:
I'm seeing the Z6/Z6ii/Z5 as being 350 to 400 grams lighter than a D700. Even with the 125 gm FTZ adapter you're still saving around 250 grams (over a half pound).

Right. I found 838g for the Z6+Adapter versus 840g for the D750 body (battery and mem card). Still, might be worth it to use the newer body.

-D

Sep 02, 2023 at 07:28 PM

bigwave
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

Ok,
Short summary -- for now, my "El Cheapo" solution is to just use the glass I've got with a D750. This will cost my about $700. Later, I will flip to Canon after i "De-GAS" a bunch of my collection (including older AF/D lenses I don't use any more.

The Canon body options are amazing! Good glass is good glass but that comment about the adapters working properly for Canon is important and suggests using a new FX Canon body with ISM/pro lenses.

Thanks for all your comments, suggestions and insights..

Dave

Sep 02, 2023 at 07:37 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Budget indoor sports setup for Volleyball/Basketball? (strictly amateur)

Adapters are only reliable within the same brand. Canon EF lenses adapt very well to RF bodies with the $100 spacer.

EBH

Sep 02, 2023 at 08:13 PM

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