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I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

TomSchriefer
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

I was never looking to sell off all my EF gear; not much else you can use with Canon EOS film cameras. The thought was to add a mirrorless body, and a EF-EOS R adapter. That would get me the benefits of R-series bodies without expense(s) for glass. I am more than happy with my lenses. Selling a complete collection, only to replace it with way more expensive RF lenses seems a bit non-sensical. Then there are the third-party lenses I have with no RF equivalent: Rokinon 8mm FE, Sigma 8-16mm II, Tokina 12-28.

Sep 03, 2023 at 06:59 AM

rscheffler
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

TomSchriefer wrote:
I have decided to stick with my 6DII & 90D for the near future. About the only thing I can't do, that I would like to do, is the 'bird in the brush thing. One of the prime motivators is the cost of new gear. R6II + adapter + one native lens runs about $3k. R6 is older, a bit lesser than the vII model, and still expensive. The R8 seems quite capable, but is still over $2k w/adapter and an RF lens. I don't seem to be getting much for my money for full-frame mirrorless. I did look at...Show more →

I guess it really depends on what you need out of the system. From my own switch from Canon 1DX series cameras to the R6II, mirrorless has generally be an improvement with respect to AF performance. In your case, if you're really only looking to address that one fairly niche scenario, then maybe wait 2-3 years and pick up an R6II or R8 at considerable discount (if you're comfortable buying used). If you don't need cutting edge, the latest and greatest, this approach is a logical one at any time - buy a generation or two older and save money.

Sep 03, 2023 at 09:36 AM

TomSchriefer
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

No. I certainly do not need cutting edge technology. Until July (this year) I was still using an EOS 1, and an EOS 650 (film bodies from the '80s). Each has only 1 AF point. Worked well for me as I grew up on fully manual cameras with NO AF points, like the Yashica 124G (120 film, from the '50s) I recently sold. This is kind of humorous: I still really enjoy mailing off my film and waiting for the scans to get posted, maybe 4 or 5 days. It reminds me of the little kid, giddy, "It's Christmas Morning!" feeling. "What did I get!?!?!?!?"

Sep 03, 2023 at 10:29 AM

Charlie52
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

Jeff wrote:
MILC?
Metal-induced lateral crystallization

Sep 03, 2023 at 11:57 AM

Gochugogi
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

TomSchriefer wrote:
I was never looking to sell off all my EF gear; not much else you can use with Canon EOS film cameras. The thought was to add a mirrorless body, and a EF-EOS R adapter. That would get me the benefits of R-series bodies without expense(s) for glass. I am more than happy with my lenses. Selling a complete collection, only to replace it with way more expensive RF lenses seems a bit non-sensical. Then there are the third-party lenses I have with no RF equivalent: Rokinon 8mm FE, Sigma 8-16mm II, Tokina 12-28.

I sold nearly 30 EF lenses but kept a half dozen unique optics I might want to someday use. So not nonsensical to me, but "sensical." I did ditch my Rokinon lenses and Sigmas—they were the first to go (and the last to get used). My most "sensical" optical was the old EF 70-300 4-5.6L IS USM. Feels like a cross between a lead pipe and bazooka but the images are heavenly.

Sep 03, 2023 at 01:46 PM

Critters
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

Of all my Canon EF lenses, the 70-300 L remains one of my favorites. I use it with adapters on both the Canon R5 and Sony A7R5. One of the 2 EF lenses I still have...the other is the 16-35 f4.

Sep 03, 2023 at 02:43 PM

TomSchriefer
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

I am still spending a fair bit of time comparing some of my 90D's features to similar features of the R6II. One thing I can't seem to wrap my head around is 'silent shooting'. On the 90D, with Full-Electronic shutter enabled, I can NOT access any of the burst modes. Seems like some of the ideal places to use a silent shutter would be: church/weddings, plays, dance recitals, and the like. These venues and subjects SCREAM FOR A BURST MODE. This restriction appears to make the silent shutter mode of the 90D just about pointless. It appears (in reviews) that the R6II can shoot 40fps w/AF & AE for each shot. If true, THIS IS HUGE! It would also allow me to shoot bug-macros w/o scaring my subjects away with a noisy camera. I also understand that neither camera (90D/R6II) will fire a flash in ES mode. What? Why not? Any help greatly appreciated.

Edit: fixed improper reference, should be R6II

Edited on Sep 14, 2023 at 07:27 PM · View previous versions

Sep 10, 2023 at 10:25 AM

Scott Stoness
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

TomSchriefer wrote:
I am still spending a fair bit of time comparing some of my 90D's features to similar features of the R6II. One thing I can't seem to wrap my head around is 'silent shooting'. On the 90D, with Full-Electronic shutter enabled, I can NOT access any of the burst modes. Seems like some of the ideal places to use a silent shutter would be: church/weddings, plays, dance recitals, and the like. These venues and subjects SCREAM FOR A BURST MODE. This restriction appears to make the silent shutter mode of the 90D just about pointless. It appears (in reviews) that...Show more →

I have the r8, which I understand to be the same as 6dii without IBIS and with a lessor battery. I have been very happy with electronic (silent if you choose so with volume on menu). It permits, for example, AEB in electronic with no sound and 40, 20, 12 fps. I use this in my c2 mode at 40fps and AEB for handheld landscape. I just tried focus stacking and the body worked quietly but the lens made a bit of noise changing focus on my cheap 24-50

Keep in mind that whenever you go from mechanical 6fps or EFCS to Electronic (up to 40fps), you drop from 14 bit to 12 bit. This is barely noticeable at iso 100 and not noticeable at higher iso's.

As contrasted, on my r5, it will not do electronic and AEB. And it does not have a volume setting so it's always silent in electronic.

So I think that the newer cameras 6dii, r8 have better menu choices and options related to silent mode, than older cameras (r5).

I suspect that the 90d is even more limited in the menu because it's menu is older than the r5.

So my thought is go try it at your camera store. But I think that it will work in burst 40fps, 20fps and be silent because my r8 does.

Sep 13, 2023 at 05:40 PM

Gochugogi
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

Yes, the R6 MK II can shoot 40FPS in electronic shutter mood. Save for focus bracketing small critters at 40FPS (likely to move), I normally use slower FPS. 40FPS is silly fast for most subjects.

Sep 13, 2023 at 09:13 PM

rscheffler
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

TomSchriefer wrote:
It appears (in reviews) that the 6DII can shoot 40fps w/AF & AE for each shot. If true, THIS IS HUGE! It would also allow me to shoot bug-macros w/o scaring my subjects away with a noisy camera. I also understand that neither camera (90D/6DII) will fire a flash in ES mode. What? Why not? Any help greatly appreciated.

6DII is a much different camera than the R6II.

Yes, R6II does 40, 20 and 5 fps in electronic shutter (wish it also did 10). I've been using 40fps for some sports coverage and it works perfectly at tracking subjects with AF. Culling/editing images is of course a longer process but with the likelihood that nearly all of the images are well focused, it's less necessary to look through them one by one. Rather, I browse thumbnails of a sequence and zero in on the better action, then examine those more closely. Scrolling through those sequences is like watching a video due to the high fps rate...

The reason the 90D, R6II, R5 and most other cameras don't do flash in electronic shutter is due to the time it takes for the image to be captured and read off the sensor. It's done line by line as a 'sweep' or 'scan' across the sensor. For the R6II, it's around 1/60 for this to happen. Other cameras are slower. The 90D, which uses a similar sensor to the R7, is likely in the 1/15 range. Flash duration tends to be 1/250 and shorter (often much shorter) and the full flash output would occur only partway through the exposure 'sweep' across the sensor, resulting in an uneven exposure. Some cameras do offer flash with e-shutter, such as the R3, IIRC, but those all have 'stacked' sensor technology that reads the image off the sensor much faster than non-stacked sensors. I think the R3 is in the 1/180-1/200 range. This is closer to an instantaneous read of all pixels that would be achieved by global shutter sensors.

Sep 14, 2023 at 08:13 AM

Robin Smith
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

Best thing about mirrorless to me is in-body stabilization. That is worth having. The increased fps, eye, plane car, wombat AF are things you may find useful, but for many of us these are things that are not life changing. I suspect the image quality is a little better, but probably not astronomic. Silent shutter is nice, but eshutters have issues unless the read speed is very quick and I don't think the R6 is stellar in that regard. The other good thing is that the new optics are very good, but tend to be expensive. Once Canon allow third party options then it will get better.

Sep 14, 2023 at 09:06 AM

rscheffler
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

The R6II (and R8) does not have fast sensor readout like the R3, but it's the fastest available from Canon in a non-stacked sensor. And IIRC, it's faster than pretty much every other FF camera in its price range. I use it, and the R6, in e-shutter to photograph (American) football, and you barely ever see identifiable rolling shutter effects (usually only when the ball is kicked and typically right at the time of foot on ball impact). That said, if it was round ball, or stick and ball sports, there would be some noticeable rolling shutter distortion.

Another possibly overlooked consideration is that if the FF e-shutter scan speed is ~1/60 from top of frame to bottom (landscape orientation), and if the subject is not filling the frame, the actual scan speed for the area occupied by the subject is a fraction of the FF scan speed. So, if they're filling half the frame height, the scan speed would be 1/125, etc. This is an aspect where the R5 has some advantage, particularly for wildlife in reach limited situations where you may rarely fill the frame and will crop deeply. Its higher resolution allows deeper crops and its similar sensor scan speed means deep crops end up with pretty fast e-shutter scan speed across the subject.

I agree IBIS has been very good to have. But IMO it's really going to depend on what you photograph. The much more accurate, more precise AF of the R system compared to even Canon's best DSLRs, is for me the big feature. This, combined with subject recognition/detection/tracking means I can confidently shoot fast lenses at or near wide open of subjects (people) as they move around the composition with the AF locked on their face/eyes.

I used a 90D for a short while and almost entirely used it in live view for this reason. It was just so much more consistent (AF) and versatile. Then I tried an M6II for a while, which was basically the guts and sensor of the 90D in a small EOS-M mirrorless camera, and liked it a lot more than the 90D... Now a variation of that sensor is in the R7, which would probably be the closest equivalent R camera to the 90D. IMO its big weakness is the slow e-shutter scan speed of that relatively old-tech sensor...

Sep 14, 2023 at 01:06 PM

artsupreme
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

For the sensor gurus, if the R5 readout speed is 1/60th, would it be possible to double that without a stacked sensor in the R5II? What are the bottlenecks of the readout speed?

Sep 14, 2023 at 01:13 PM

TomSchriefer
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · I may be ready to move to MILC. Advice, please.

Thanks all, for noticing that I actually meant R6II, not 6DII, in my previous post. I did go back to Best Buy for an hour or so the other day. They had an R6 (not II) on display. I played with it for quite some time, and went through the menus. R6 only does 20 fps in H+, and even that is amazing. After an hour or so, I even got used to no top-deck display. I thought the EVF was quite nice on R6 and R7. The last camera I had with an EVF was Panasonic DMC-FZ8, maybe 15 years ago. Huge difference!

Sep 14, 2023 at 07:37 PM

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