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5DSr Color Profile Problem

Danpbphoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

Upon Selecting which file to open in Bridge 2023(v13.04.7777....latest) on the Right Side the Metadata of the file marked is shown.

My 2 5DSR's(90D also) the "Color Profile is set to "UNTAGGED".

I cannot figure out to change this to whatever. If I even can. My images seem clear and sharp sometimes, others not so.

My 1Dx shows CP as "ADOBE"

I have a post on Adobe.
Any advice is appreciated.
Dan

Edited on Aug 28, 2023 at 09:44 AM · View previous versions

Aug 26, 2023 at 12:40 PM

stanj
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

For raw files, it's changed in ACR (or LR) in the topmost popup. No idea how to change it inside Bridge, don't use that. Can't really do much with JPGs, PS has "convert profile" and "assign profile" but I'm sure you know that.

Aug 26, 2023 at 06:11 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

Danpbphoto wrote:
My images seem clear and sharp sometimes, others not so.

Dan

f/14 on the 5DsR is well into diffraction land so it is not the sharpest aperture.

EBH

Aug 26, 2023 at 06:53 PM

melcat
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

First of all, the colour profile has nothing to do with sharpness, so you’re barking up the wrong tree here.

Second, while I don’t use Adobe software any more, I can make an informed guess that what’s being displayed here is the EXIF flag relating to the JPEG thumbnail in the raw file. If it is not present, or “untagged”, it is sRGB, consistent with the file name not starting with an underscore, otherwise it is Adobe RGB 1998. I bet your 1DX file names do start with an underscore, meaning the camera is set to Adobe RGB 1998. Most raw converters completely ignore this setting and use their own profile when processing the raw, meaning this is also irrelevant for colour rendition.

Aug 26, 2023 at 08:16 PM

Danpbphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

melcat wrote:
First of all, the colour profile has nothing to do with sharpness, so you’re barking up the wrong tree here.

Second, while I don’t use Adobe software any more, I can make an informed guess that what’s being displayed here is the EXIF flag relating to the JPEG thumbnail in the raw file. If it is not present, or “untagged”, it is sRGB, consistent with the file name not starting with an underscore, otherwise it is Adobe RGB 1998. I bet your 1DX file names do start with an underscore, meaning the camera is set to Adobe RGB 1998. Most raw...Show more →

Thanks!
I realize that sharpness has nothing to do with it. I sort of got that confused with sharpness relating to "cp".

No my 1DX files do not have an underscore. Only my 1DsMkII has an underscore prior to the file number. CR files start with an "A" or "O".
Thanks!

Aug 27, 2023 at 09:59 AM

artsupreme
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

EB-1 wrote:
f/14 on the 5DsR is well into diffraction land so it is not the sharpest aperture.

EBH

For those of us who don't shoot small apertures, what is the sharpest aperture range before you reach diffraction? How about using quality lenses on the R5? For example, if I was going to shoot a landscape with the RF 14-35 or RF 24-70 f/2.8, which aperture would use to produce the sharpest result before diffraction? Somewhere around f/11 maybe?

Aug 27, 2023 at 11:21 AM

EB-1
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

It's about f/8 for 45MP FX (or a little less than that for 50MP) based on extinction resolution. The DLA can be more or less depending on your interpretation of impact, e.g., do you chose 2x, 2.5x or 3x for Airy disk size relative to pixel size. My point is that f/14 is two stops past the 2.5x so closer to 5x, which will be visible (more with a good lens and weak AA filter). Some people are more sensitive to resolution than others, and processing can of course increase contrast (unsharp mask) or use deconvolution sharpening, AI, etc. to make the image still look good.

IIRC it has been discussed several times at FM that the sharpness is more important to the casual viewer than resolution. If f/11 or f/14 looks good to you, then it's fine to use. Just know you are not getting the full amount of possible detail. I have over 100K frames on various 5DsRs and know how it behaves. I mostly avoided smaller apertures than f/8 and only f/11 when really needed, but it's not as sharp. At f/8 you can see sometimes have a reduction of moire from wider apertures. I use f/8 with the R5, but mostly pan and focus stack landscapes. The R5 does not have the resolution of the 5DsR. It also has a noticeable AA filter, so any slight diffraction at f/8 is minimal to the overall image. And we all know that lenses (especially zooms) may need f/8-10 for the best corners, either due to filed curvature or other optical aberrations.

EBH

Aug 27, 2023 at 11:59 AM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

artsupreme wrote:
For those of us who don't shoot small apertures, what is the sharpest aperture range before you reach diffraction? How about using quality lenses on the R5? For example, if I was going to shoot a landscape with the RF 14-35 or RF 24-70 f/2.8, which aperture would use to produce the sharpest result before diffraction? Somewhere around f/11 maybe?

I've shot at f/16+ on 12mp m4/3, which is 48mp ff pixel density and gotten sharp results. It really depends on the lens. Older 1980's lenses tend to do better at f/16+ apertures

If you look at the MP results listed on adaptall-2.com the 80-200/2.8 has its best aperture at 200mm at f/11 IIRC. Even at f/32 it's not bad (usually had a tube on it), seems better than my 180 Tamron at f/32. 90/2.5 Tamron had its best performance at 1:2 at f/11-16, my 180 more at 4-5.6, so it depends on the lens

Recent lenses tend to top out at 5.6, maybe 8. I'd probably just look at opticallimits or test it myself. The old FD 20-35 topped out at f/11-16 in the MP test not surprising given no pp or focus stacking on film, and that it's presumably meant to be a pro/advanced amateur lens on slide film, usually meaning a tripod

Aug 27, 2023 at 12:16 PM

EB-1
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

The old tests in the film era were done based on a print size and viewing distance, so substantially different (higher) apertures were obtained. But even in the film era I recall f/16 was worse than f/11 under a good zeiss loupe. It did not matter so much when we were making 8x10 or 11x14 prints that were not pixel level sharp.

EBH

Aug 27, 2023 at 12:25 PM

stanj
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

Well I still have the aforementioned EF 20-35L in my drawer (along with my A1 and T90), so if anyone tells me how I can test it on my R5, I'd be happy to

Aug 27, 2023 at 12:27 PM

artsupreme
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

EB-1 wrote:
It's about f/8 for 45MP FX (or a little less than that for 50MP) based on extinction resolution. The DLA can be more or less depending on your interpretation of impact, e.g., do you chose 2x, 2.5x or 3x for Airy disk size relative to pixel size. My point is that f/14 is two stops past the 2.5x so closer to 5x, which will be visible (more with a good lens and weak AA filter). Some people are more sensitive to resolution than others, and processing can of course increase contrast (unsharp mask) or use deconvolution sharpening, AI, etc. to...Show more →

So for an occasional landscape shot on the R5 with let's say a 14-35mm around 18-20mm, you would suggest using f/8 and focus stacking 3 or 4 images (foreground, middle, background)? Or, would you take more than a few images to stack if shooting at f/8?

Aug 27, 2023 at 02:17 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

stanj wrote:
Well I still have the aforementioned EF 20-35L in my drawer (along with my A1 and T90), so if anyone tells me how I can test it on my R5, I'd be happy to

It's hard to gauge sarcasm online, but if you're serious I'm definitely interested in that test. B&h has metabones fd rf $99, fotodiox $55. I'd probably be <$20 on ebay, although my FD-m4/3 had incorrect length not allowing infinity.

I found the FD 20-35 MP test, not sure if I should post a link feel free to pm me. Best center sharpness at f/11&16. Corners varied a little more best at f/8-16 in general.

I don't really think sharpness on film is so different from digital. Some lenses do better than others on film vs digital , but I mean if f/11 & 16 is best in general on film, I don't see how a different aperture, less sharp on film, is going to be better on digital .

Aug 27, 2023 at 02:43 PM

stanj
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

AmbientMike wrote:
It's hard to gauge sarcasm online, but if you're serious I'm definitely interested in that test. B&h has metabones fd rf $99, fotodiox $55. I'd probably be <$20 on ebay, although my FD-m4/3 had incorrect length not allowing infinity.

Heck, I've spent more on lesser stuff, so why not. Should arrive sometime this coming week, will report back. Will be nice to actually use the old lens once again (last used on 7/22/1999 on the T90).

Aug 27, 2023 at 04:47 PM

Shasoc
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

Danpbphoto wrote:
Upon Selecting which file to open in Bridge 2023(v13.04.7777....latest) on the Right Side the Metadata of the file marked is shown.

My 2 5DSR's(90D also) the "Color Profile is set to "UNTAGGED".

I cannot figure out to change this to whatever. If I even can. My images seem clear and sharp sometimes, others not so.

My 1Dx shows CP as "ADOBE"

I have a post on Adobe.
Any advice is appreciated.
Dan

Dan, Raw files have no color space. The color space setting in the camera has always been ignored by Bridge that has always reported raw files as "untagged".

Socrate

Aug 29, 2023 at 04:41 PM

Danpbphoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

Shasoc wrote:
Dan, Raw files have no color space. The color space setting in the camera has always been ignored by Bridge that has always reported raw files as "untagged".

Socrate
Thanks Socrate!
I don't ever remember seeing "untagged" in the metadata. I swear I saw 1 1Dx file show "Adobe" but it appears I was hallucinating!

Yes many posts to me as to what you said!
Thanks!
Ciao mio amico!
Dan

Aug 30, 2023 at 09:48 AM

stanj
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 5DSr Color Profile Problem

AmbientMike wrote:
It's hard to gauge sarcasm online, but if you're serious I'm definitely interested in that test. B&h has metabones fd rf $99, fotodiox $55. I'd probably be <$20 on ebay, although my FD-m4/3 had incorrect length not allowing infinity.

stanj wrote:
Heck, I've spent more on lesser stuff, so why not. Should arrive sometime this coming week, will report back. Will be nice to actually use the old lens once again (last used on 7/22/1999 on the T90).

So, the sad thing is that the maximum focusing distance for the FD 20-35 when on the EF-FD adapter is around an inch or two, way too close to make any meaningful conclusions.

Sep 04, 2023 at 06:50 PM


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