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Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

snapsy
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

kirbic wrote:
One thing to note, even though this was a 13s exposure, that doesn't necessarily mean that this feature took 13s to track across the corner of the frame. It could have been a momentary phenomenon.
It is exactly, precisely straight, at least at the limit of what can be judged in Ps, which does place some constraints on what it might be

Good point. If it's actually something moving then the exposure may have started after it dropped below the horizon and before it "hit" the ground, which would explain why there's no tail visible in the sky and why it ends at the ground. But since the base of the mountain is relatively close it's hard to image something that small (<= 1px wide).

Aug 16, 2023 at 09:14 AM

Kameratrollet
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

Muon. Put your camera faced down in a freezer and take 30 seconds exposures for some couple of hours. Use LENR to map out hot pixels. You will get some muon particles in those pictures.

Aug 16, 2023 at 09:31 AM

snapsy
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

snapsy wrote:
Here's a 300% crop showing the RGGB pixels without demosaicing, generated from RawTherapee using the RT's demosaicing method of "None (Shows sensor pattern)

Image

I thought I saw a trail above the horizon but can't find it now. Can you tell me the coordinates?

Here's a 3200% crop of the individual RGGB pixels. You can see the pixel column # at the top

3200% crop of individual RGGB pixels

Aug 16, 2023 at 09:36 AM

Jeff
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

Kameratrollet wrote:
Muon. Put your camera faced down in a freezer and take 30 seconds exposures for some couple of hours. Use LENR to map out hot pixels. You will get some muon particles in those pictures.

Could you expand on that a bit? I'm no astro/physicist...

Aug 16, 2023 at 09:37 AM

Jeff
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

kirbic wrote:
It's interesting that it is *exactly* one px wide... except where it isn't. There is that one spot where it is spread across four px, and perhaps a couple other spots where there is some smaller spread (though perhaps not after looking at the non-demosaiced image)
If this were an actual light source at distance, I can't imagine it being that sharp. Neither the horizon nor the stars are quite that well defined.
One thing to note, even though this was a 13s exposure, that doesn't necessarily mean that this feature took 13s to track across the corner of the frame. It...Show more →

I was thinking about that in relation to the optic used, in that I'm not sure the lens is capable of activating only one pixel, especially near the edge of the frame.

Aug 16, 2023 at 09:40 AM

Kameratrollet
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

https://blog.bithole.dev/blogposts/cosmic-ray/

If you want to take pictures of muon, then use something like darktable or RawTherapee because those have the ability to not demosaic the Bayer filter.

Jeff wrote:
Could you expand on that a bit? I'm no astro/physicist...

Edited on Aug 16, 2023 at 10:19 AM · View previous versions

Aug 16, 2023 at 10:11 AM

Jeff
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

Kameratrollet wrote:
Muon. Put your camera faced down in a freezer and take 30 seconds exposures for some couple of hours. Use LENR to map out hot pixels. You will get some muon particles in those pictures.

Jeff wrote:
Could you expand on that a bit? I'm no astro/physicist...

Kameratrollet wrote:
https://blog.bithole.dev/blogposts/cosmic-ray/

Interesting. If you've seen other examples of this with consumer digital cameras, do the lines tend to be long and straight? Examples in your article were mostly very short (in length).

Aug 16, 2023 at 10:17 AM

Kameratrollet
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

It depends. I am far from any expert but I think camera position is important. Easier to collect with the sensor down, but longer if you you have the sensor upright, like you had.

If you have a camera you don't care about, put it in the freezer as I wrote. Don't forget a plastic bag due to condensation.

Of 1700 pictures with my 1000D I got 24 exposures containing a muon.
Jeff wrote:
Interesting. If you've seen other examples of this with consumer digital cameras, do the lines tend to be long and straight? Examples in your article were mostly very short (in length).

Aug 16, 2023 at 10:24 AM

AmbientMike
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

Drone?

Hand held lasers can disrupt airplanes and other aircraft could potentially reach this far. Highly illegal to point them at them

Aug 16, 2023 at 01:49 PM

Jeff
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

AmbientMike wrote:
Drone?

Hand held lasers can disrupt airplanes and other aircraft could potentially reach this far. Highly illegal to point them at them

Thank you for that useful tidbit; I've had a laser pointed at me while flying a helicopter, I know what that looks like. There were no drones, aircraft, nor people (for miles).

Aug 16, 2023 at 04:12 PM

Kameratrollet
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

I found my thread from March 2023, so here is a Google drive link. One contains a muon particle https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Cifzhe2sEQdFWhlC1G4Xy5VEog74iSZ/view

Sensor faced down.

Aug 17, 2023 at 02:20 AM

Jeff
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

Kameratrollet wrote:
I found my thread from March 2023, so here is a Google drive link. One contains a muon particle https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Cifzhe2sEQdFWhlC1G4Xy5VEog74iSZ/view

Sensor faced down.

Interesting. Any idea why it curves?

Aug 17, 2023 at 06:36 AM

Kameratrollet
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

No, but you have many shapes https://www.reddit.com/r/astrophotography/comments/m1w4wv/i_captured_some_cosmic_rays/

Jeff wrote:
Interesting. Any idea why it curves?

Aug 17, 2023 at 08:38 AM

lighthound
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

I knew those damn Minions were nothing but trouble.

Oh no wait.... your talking about muons.

Never mind, carry on.

If that's what it is, that's pretty cool stuff you captured Jeff.

Aug 17, 2023 at 08:59 AM

Photonadave
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

kirbic wrote:
"One thing to note, even though this was a 13s exposure, that doesn't necessarily mean that this feature took 13s to track across the corner of the frame. It could have been a momentary phenomenon."

I agree.

I'm guessing it's a small meteorite or hunk of space junk re-entering that was just below the hill's horizon when the camera's shutter opened.

Perfect timing!

Hmm, it may have made it all the way to the ground! Get your metal detector out and hit the desert.

Aug 17, 2023 at 10:25 AM

Photonadave
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

Hey, another idea:

Perhaps it was a reflection from a nearby light source (flashlight, moon, firefly, or?) off of the initial first single strand span of new spider web being constructed in your lens hood?

Aug 17, 2023 at 10:42 AM

kirbic
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

My bet here is on the muon theory. There's no way that light that actually traversed the optical path would have resulted in a track that was only, and exactly, 1 px wide. Electronic read-out issues are a non-starter as well because of the slant. An energetic particle makes the most sense, it fits all the data.

Aug 17, 2023 at 01:36 PM

bballfreak6
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

Sorry Jeff turns out the email chain I had with Canon's gone (it was many, many years ago haha) but yes IIRC it is cosmic rays as stated by @Kameratrollet.

Aug 17, 2023 at 03:23 PM

Kameratrollet
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

212 pixels long https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4610748

There are probably other types of particals out there also possible to collect with a CMOS sensor.

Earlier this year I tried with X-ray, but it looked like massive noise https://www.facebook.com/groups/167033493981678/permalink/1177351749616509/?sfnsn=mo&ref=share

I still recommend you, and everyone else in this thread, to try the freezer method. The freezer reduces the overall noise.

Camera in a zip bag and a remote control turned on like when you take timelapse. Battery grip is good. No lens, only camera cap if that is what it is called. Long Exposure Noise Reduction turned ON so you get rid of hot pixels.
ISO 1600 and 30 seconds exposure. Go on for some hours. Try sensor facing down vs upright.

Aug 19, 2023 at 01:39 AM

Jeff
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Sensor error, or valid data? (5Ds high ISO)

I know it's been awhile, but wanted to give an update on this image. I was finally able to get in contact with a researcher who wrote a paper on capturing muons with CMOS sensors, and he was able to pass the image around to his colleagues. They have seen two instances similar to my capture, and said "...PROBABLY the line registered on your photo is cosmic particle (muon)".

Probably the best I'm going to get. Thanks to you all for giving input here, and I guess @Kameratrollet wins the award! Thanks so much to @snapsy for his help on this!

-Jeff

Oct 26, 2023 at 08:23 AM

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