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500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

haptoski
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Shooting osprey eating and feeding in nest 100 yards away. Using ef 500 f/4 II. ISO 1600. I have an R7 or an R6 II. Curious what folks with experience with this lens would choose. Which body, Add a 1X converter, crop in body, or crop in post. All shot from good sturdy tripod.

Aug 15, 2023 at 07:29 AM

aboulenein
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Back when I had the 500 F/4 II, it performed admirably with the 1.4x - excellent IQ, no noticeable slowdown in AF, and just a small weight adder. So I would definitely go with the 1.4x.

Aug 15, 2023 at 08:29 AM

nmerc_photos
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

In daylight I would go:

R7 -> 1.4x -> crop

In lower light I would go:

Crop -> 1.4x

R7 in my experience was too noisy even in good light, to consider using in low light

realistically you'll probably end up using the 1.4x and cropping

Aug 15, 2023 at 08:57 AM

lighthound
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

IMHO the only advantage to using in camera crop mode is to assist the AF system to better lock onto eyes/heads of critters at long distances. Otherwise just crop in post if needed, which gives you more freedom of final composition.

I shoot with the 500II on my R5 and use the 1.4xIII often for birds but rarely for large mammals such as Elk or Bear. You didn't specifically say which ver of the 1.4X you have or would use but you want to use the mark III version as for its superior IQ.

I'm not sure how or why you plan on locking yourself in at ISO 1600 as your ISO should be determined by the amount of light you have and the minimum shutter speed you can reliably get away with. With that lens shooting wide open is no issue so that part of the puzzle for this subject and distance is f/4. Let your ISO float as needed for proper exposure.

100 yards is long ways for a small subject like that so I'd start by going for the narrowest FOV (reach) I could toss at it and go with the cropper + 1.4xIII + crop mode on a tripod.

Aug 15, 2023 at 10:05 AM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

I'm still using the Tamron 1.4 I bought with my 180 Tamron in 2005. 1.4 v3 Canon probably supposed to be better. The 500/4 looks ridiculously sharp on TDP, tc should hold up fine.

I'd try stopping down a stop, like they used to recommend on 1.4's, before following the dubious recommendations to discard tc's that are popular recently.

Aug 15, 2023 at 10:29 AM

armd
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

haptoski wrote:
Shooting osprey eating and feeding in nest 100 yards away. Using ef 500 f/4 II. ISO 1600. I have an R7 or an R6 II. Curious what folks with experience with this lens would choose. Which body, Add a 1X converter, crop in body, or crop in post. All shot from good sturdy tripod.

Appreciate that as I have not only some of the same gear but shoot under similar conditions. The 500 f/4 II does really well with the R7 and since you're operating at an EFL of 800 that's a great place to be. The R7's AF is not as accurate as the R6 II and I found that it tends to lose birds like osprey when they are diving against busy or contrasty backgrounds (unlike my R5). You'll have to experiment and see if you like the TC on the R7 (raising your EFL to 1120mm). I didn't find it particularly satisfying considering the impact on AF, sharpness, and FOV.

If you are using the R6, from that distance, I wouldn't hesitate to employ a 1.4x III TC.

Canon EOS R7 Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS II USM or EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM lens 500mm f/4.5 1/2000s 5000 ISO +0.7 EV

Canon EOS R7 Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS II USM or EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM lens 500mm f/4.5 1/2000s 6400 ISO +0.7 EV

Edited on Aug 15, 2023 at 11:07 AM · View previous versions

Aug 15, 2023 at 10:49 AM

Dragonfire
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

A 100 yard shot is never going to produce great photographs. Find a way to get closer.

Aug 15, 2023 at 11:04 AM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Sure, I'd rather use the lens bare, it's more fun, on mine. Have to wonder if that's part of the reason for the recommendations to not use tc's. But 40% increase in FL is too big to ignore.

Seems like George Lepp used a 2x hh on a 500/4, probably older versioms. Might be worth a shot. Allowed on here, but I know at least one birding site didn't allow nest photos to keep people from disrupting the nest.

Aug 15, 2023 at 11:18 AM

Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

AmbientMike wrote:
Seems like George Lepp used a 2x hh on a 500/4, probably older versioms.

I knew George (formerly a Canon Explorer of Light; now a "Canon Legacy") for several years, including when he was documenting a Bald Eagle nest site (he gave a nice video to Oregon State Parks; the video used to play in Smith Rock State Park's welcome hut), and they may still be using it. One day he even tried using two stacked 2X Extenders on a Big White (he blogged about it, I think back around 2017). I don't recall for sure, but I think it was the old EF 800 f/5.6L. He's a big fan of using the longest FL you can. He had one setup (used only one day I think) that required two tripods to hold it: a chain of Big White + Extenders + extension tubes (used between Extenders that couldn't be stacked) + 1D series camera. I wish I still had the photos he shared: something like nailing the bird's faces at ~285'. Not the sharpest image, but George shared it anyway just to show he did it.

I personally have no problem using a 2X with my EF 500 f/4L (II), EF 180L macro, or RF 100-500L if needed. Just keep in mind that the long FL isn't a substitute for getting close if you can: the air's an optical element, after all. While images degrade a small amount with the EF 2X (III) and RF 2X, it's easy to sharpen them in post, and I'd rather get the image than not.

Aug 15, 2023 at 11:35 AM

EB-1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

The 1.4x III on the 500/4 IS II results in virtually no loss of IQ at the pixel level. It's still better than many lenses without a TC like the 100-500. I prefer the 500/4 IS II with the TC over the R7 without the TC. I use the 500 with 1.4 TC on the R7 sometimes for small subjects. Larger species at great distance often don't look good due to bad air. Longer lenses and TCs just magnify the atmospheric distortion.

EBH

Aug 15, 2023 at 11:42 AM

Sy Sez
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

I knew lots of folks, shooting wildlife, with EF 500 and/or 600F4L's where a 1.4 TC "lived" on the lens, but they all had an APS-C like a 7D2/ 100-400L on sling strap in addition.

Aug 15, 2023 at 01:20 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Abbott Schindl wrote:
I knew George (formerly a Canon Explorer of Light; now a "Canon Legacy") for several years, including when he was documenting a Bald Eagle nest site (he gave a nice video to Oregon State Parks; the video used to play in Smith Rock State Park's welcome hut), and they may still be using it. One day he even tried using two stacked 2X Extenders on a Big White (he blogged about it, I think back around 2017). I don't recall for sure, but I think it was the old EF 800 f/5.6L. He's a big fan of using the...Show more →

I don't know him, I think I just read about it, tried Googling but I probably read about it in his column in a magazine. Far enough back probably before 500/4 II & 1.4 III came out. He has the video on his site, got up to 3889mm ff equivalent between the tc's and 5D4 4k crop!!! No recent posts, but has 600+2x on his fb (2022)

People post nest photos on here, I just hope they don't disrupt the nest. At least one birding forum banned them. Mentioned prominently in the rules, removed promptly by mods

Could be difficult for the op to purchase an 800 or 1200mm, a 2x tc is relatively light and inexpensive though. The one time I tried stacked tc's on a supertele it didn't look too good to me, and I didn't expect it to. Some get good results though it seems. Skeptical myself though

Aug 15, 2023 at 01:22 PM

G Lavaty
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

That’s a lot of distance from the osprey so I wouldn’t expect fantastic results either way but I have used both the R7 and R6 mk2 with the EF 500mm f/4L IS mk2 both with the EF 1.4x iii and without and have always been very satisfied with the results. Your best bet is to find a closer osprey but for the one you have I think you can’t go wrong either way.

Aug 15, 2023 at 05:47 PM

haptoski
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Appreciate the conversation.

For the situation I outlined. I actually ended up with the R6+2x converter and did a mild crop in post. Osprey eating a large trout on a limb opposite side of a large river so no way to change my situation. as I went through all the options I had in my bag with those two different bodies, 1.4x and 2x teleconverters both VIII and a big white I was curious what choices others here might choose and why. Lots of ways to skin this cat…..

Aug 15, 2023 at 08:22 PM

armd
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

haptoski wrote:
Appreciate the conversation.

For the situation I outlined. I actually ended up with the R6+2x converter and did a mild crop in post. Osprey eating a large trout on a limb opposite side of a large river so no way to change my situation. as I went through all the options I had in my bag with those two different bodies, 1.4x and 2x teleconverters both VIII and a big white I was curious what choices others here might choose and why. Lots of ways to skin this cat…..

Okay, though I've never been thrilled with the 500 f/4 IS II and 2x. Given that you had a rather static subject, I think that the R7 with the 500 +- 1.4x TC might have been my choice.

Aug 16, 2023 at 08:02 AM

Choderboy
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

I have been doing this for years and have had similar findings.
Mainly using EF 500 f4 V1 and Sigma 500 f4 Sport.
Bare lenses and with 1.4TC on 90D.
Both lenses with 1.4 and 2XTC on 1DX2. 2XTC chosen as best.
Now using Sony bodies and only have the Sigma, use with 1.4TC. 2XTC has similar potential but less keepers so stick with 1.4TC.

A few things I have found:
Often don't use AF. Actually, use AF, take shot, if on reviewing focus looks good, turn AF off.
Slow shutter speed unless windy. By slow, I mean 1/500 to 1/800. Advantage lower ISO.
Remote release.

My Osprey are in the suburbs so often shoot from the road. Park car to shield camera/ tripod from any wind if possible. Alternative, be a scarecrow, arms held out with jacket on.

Aug 16, 2023 at 08:33 AM

Choderboy
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Back in 2016 with 7D2, EF 100-400II and Sigma 150-600 Sport, before I got the 500 f4s. Both big crops.

150-600mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM | Sports 014 +1.4x
[

SE0_8949_2635cr_1280dmp by Choderboy, on Flickr

EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM +1.4x III

SE0_8887_2697cr_1280dmp by Choderboy, on Flickr

Edited on Aug 16, 2023 at 09:22 AM · View previous versions

Aug 16, 2023 at 08:40 AM

Zenon Char
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Aug 16, 2023 at 08:47 AM

Choderboy
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Some from this year. Osprey are closer so less cropping but still big crops.
These are typical results.
Note the first shot, with 2XTC has slightly less detail, but the counterweight of the crane shows the higher magnification and it's the highest ISO of all. For static shots, not trying to track, I think 2XTC wins. 1.4TC provides higher potential for either tracking, or faster setup, ie relying on AF rather than AF then check focus.

A7R4a Sigma 500 f4 / 2XTC 1/1000 f9 ISO640

R4E01654_DxO_1600 by Choderboy, on Flickr

A7R4a Sigma 500 f4 / 1.4TC 1/500 f6.3 ISO100

R4E02301_DxO_1600 by Choderboy, on Flickr

A7R4a Sigma 500 f4 / 1.4TC 1/1250 f7.1 ISO320

R4E02423_DxO_1600 by Choderboy, on Flickr

A7R4a Sigma 500 f4 / 1.4TC 1/1250 f8 ISO320

R4D06924_DxO_1600 by Choderboy, on Flickr

Aug 16, 2023 at 09:08 AM

Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 500 f/4 …. 1.4x or crop

Choderboy wrote:
For static shots, not trying to track, I think 2XTC wins. 1.4TC provides higher potential for either tracking, or faster setup, ie relying on AF rather than AF then check focus.

This is what I find as well. Most birds I shoot are relatively static. I'm just not strong enough to hand-hold and track with the 500 + 2X (I tried once on a fast-flying Golden Eagle and had a heckuva time). I now have a RF 100-500, and can track relatively slow moving birds with an extender (think soaring raptors, shorebirds); dropping back to 1.5X works with faster birds, but if I'm going to try swallows or nighthawks catching insects, it's just the bare lens.

Aug 16, 2023 at 10:14 AM

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