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Help me take this photo!

jchapell
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Help me take this photo!

I am a mountain race photographer, and there is a race I have shot for the last 4 years that I will shoot again next month. When it's cloudy = great! When it's sunny = the lighting conditions for a primary location are quite challenging - as you can see from the first "before" photo below, the sun is just out of frame leading to a very bright background, lowered contrast from some flare, and the runners' faces coming towards me in shade. I really don't want to blow out the background - I have set Highlight metering with the exposure comp to +1.3 knowing the camera meters somewhat conservatively, though this still leaves necessary work in post to lift the shadows on the runner. However, I've never really been happy with the noisy/lower contrast. I don't think flash is the answer (I'm shooting >3000 photos in rapid succession), but would love to hear any suggestions.

I will be shooting with an a7RV, and likely Tamron 35-150mm. (These photos were shot with the Tamron 28-75mm G2, which I think does pretty well with backlit contrast, but also would love any suggestions of lenses the retain contrast in backlit situations).

SOOC

After Edit

SOOC

After Edit

Aug 08, 2023 at 03:23 PM

jeffbuzz
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Help me take this photo!

Flash is the only answer. A couple monolights like the Godox AD200 and lots of batteries. Or one big light and one big battery.

Aug 08, 2023 at 03:42 PM

tschopp
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Help me take this photo!

A couple thoughts.

What about adding off camera flash, say an AD200 bare bulb with an AD-S2 modifier. Maybe a spare battery or two. You would want to shoot at the flash sync speed to maximize flash power, you might need an ND filter to drop shutter speed to the sync speed, or bump up your f-stop more. Add a lite stand for the flash, I imagine you are carrying this up the mountain so keeping the weight down is important.

The other thought is changing position so it's not such a strong backlight. Maybe the background mountains are an important part of the shot and you only see those facing the sun.

I'm interested to see what others have to say on this?

Edited on Aug 08, 2023 at 04:04 PM · View previous versions

Aug 08, 2023 at 03:55 PM

GMPhotography
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Help me take this photo!

Agree flash is the only answer unless you have big reflectors all over the place. I would go with a 400 watt pack as you may need that amount of punch but can still lower if needed. I use Wescotts FJ 400 units with transmitter

Aug 08, 2023 at 03:56 PM

GMPhotography
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Help me take this photo!

Plus with a bigger unit you can avoid bare blub and soften the light a bit

Aug 08, 2023 at 03:58 PM

guitardirky
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Help me take this photo!

AD600 will be great and you wont run into recycle time issues with the lower powered lights.

Aug 08, 2023 at 03:59 PM

Uncle Chip
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Help me take this photo!

Agree with the off camera flash,
There is a big difference in size and weight between the godox ad300 and ad400 or 600, with the 300 you can also get away with a smaller light stand, the 400 is a big unit to lug up there,

Most modifiers will be a nightmare up there, Godox do a silicone gell panel that’s about 250mm, yes it’s a bit harsh but you will stand a chance in light wind if you put some rocks on your stand

Aug 08, 2023 at 04:33 PM

LiveShots
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Help me take this photo!

I would not recommend flash, it's a race and that could be a significant distraction to the competitors.

Aug 08, 2023 at 05:02 PM

jchapell
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Help me take this photo!

This has all been great insight! I've shied away from flash for the reasons mentioned - weight hiking in to the ridge, weather/wind, and assuming runners didn't want a *pop* right in their way...but it sounds like it's something I should explore further. I have few Godox speedlights rather than something like an AD200 (or bigger), but maybe I should check into them. Thank you!

Aug 08, 2023 at 10:02 PM

1bwana1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Help me take this photo!

If you want to do it all in camera in these lighting conditions then flash is your only real option.

However, if you can get the exposure of the people and the background within within a couple of stops you can use The new AI driven selection tools to bring up the people's exposure to match the background.

Experiment with this technique on som shots you have from prior years to see if this works for you.

Aug 08, 2023 at 11:03 PM

tschopp
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Help me take this photo!

A speedlight might be too small for this, especially since you won't want to run the flash at full power. The AD-S2 provides the maximum light output for the AD200, significantly more than the Fresnel head. It's also small enough the wind shouldn't be much problem, plus it's cheap.

If you do try a speedlight (better than nothing) I would still get it off camera as an off camera angle will look better.

The pop of the flash might not be too distracting off camera as they won't be looking directly at it and it will be fairly bright out.

Aug 08, 2023 at 11:04 PM

AmbientMike
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Help me take this photo!

Trying to figure out how many batteries you'd need for 3000 shots. And it sounds kinda funny carrying a battery for lighting up a mountain trail although I'm sure it is possible. Wondering how much vertical to get to this spot not sold on flaah

I looked it up, you're probably looking at GN 100 or 120 depending on 28mm or 35mm on a speedlite. How far are the people?

Aug 08, 2023 at 11:45 PM

NJPhotographer
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Help me take this photo!

Perhaps an easy-to-carry option: a Godox V1 on-camera, with TTL set to minus 2. It should give enough of a "kiss" of light, provided you are using a 3-stop ND filter and not exceeding the flash sync speed. The rest is in the processing. Also, shoot when the runners are closer (like in the 2nd shot).

Aug 08, 2023 at 11:58 PM

Olaf G
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Help me take this photo!

Just an idea: You could use a tripod and do a double exposure. First shot of the scenery without any runner in it with the right exposure settings for the scenery. Second shot of the runner with the right exposure settings for the runner. After this merge the shots in your preferred photo software...

Aug 09, 2023 at 12:52 AM

hasenbein
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Help me take this photo!

Why bother with flash?

The low contrast can simply be remedied with different editing - it is not a consequence of lifted shadows, but of doing the wrong things in Lightroom/CR!
And the noise, if it is significant at all, can be reduced with great tools like the new inbuilt noise reduction in LR/CR or Topaz Photo AI. I suppose these photos won't be printed big but just published online - so the noise won't be relevant anyway.

Aug 09, 2023 at 01:55 AM

Olaf G
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Help me take this photo!

hasenbein wrote:
Why bother with flash?

The low contrast can simply be remedied with different editing - it is not a consequence of lifted shadows, but of doing the wrong things in Lightroom/CR!
And the noise, if it is significant at all, can be reduced with great tools like the new inbuilt noise reduction in LR/CR or Topaz Photo AI. I suppose these photos won't be printed big but just published online - so the noise won't be relevant anyway.

After playing around with the edited pictures I agree.

Tuning down the saturation and adding a tiny bit of local contrast (like with the Color Efex ProContrast filter) and the outcome looks much better to me.

Aug 09, 2023 at 02:38 AM

j4nu
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Help me take this photo!

One thing, since you mention shooting into the sun with 35-150: make sure to do a testdrive beforehand.
35-150 resembles longer teles (think 100-400) in that regard, so ghosting can get kinda crazy if you're not careful where you place the sun in the frame...

Aug 09, 2023 at 10:59 AM

Robin Smith
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Help me take this photo!

I think shoot somewhere else, pick another hillock which is in the shade, but if it must be here (why?) you got to use the honking flash.

Aug 09, 2023 at 11:26 AM

PaulMoorePhoto
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Help me take this photo!

I had the same thought as Robin. Why can’t you change your position or angle to get the runners in better light? That seems like the best solution.

Robin Smith wrote:
I think shoot somewhere else, pick another hillock which is in the shade, but if it must be here (why?) you got to use the honking flash.

Aug 09, 2023 at 11:34 AM

Seabassius
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Help me take this photo!

I live in Denver too. Is this the Leadville 100? I agree with the adjust in post comments.

Aug 09, 2023 at 11:55 AM

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