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Archive 2023 · Pro body blues

  
 
Q111H
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Pro body blues


I apologize for creating such a long post, but sort of wanted to vent and get other thoughts on how they feel. I am in no way trying to start an argument or anything of the sort. I’ve just often wondered through my life what the hell constitutes a pro body? I am almost 50 years old and I’ve been interested in photography my whole life. I’ve shot daily pretty much for the last 22 years. Having said that I feel I could go out and do a paid family photo shoot with the new A6700 or a cell phone for that matter, if my technique is right. Anyhow, I fully switched over to Sony in January 2022 and prior to that shot Nikon for 20 years or so. I am extremely happy with the Sony ecosystem from the bodies to the lenses. I regret not doing it sooner to be honest. The satisfaction with the equipment and quality of the equipment is where it ends for me lol. After selling all my Nikon gear, I purchased two Sony A1 bodies and several lenses. I have been thrilled with the cameras until version 1.30 was introduced. There are several focus issues that have arisen since that update and most noticeably on my 600 GM lens. I have the most trouble when I’m trying to photograph flying birds near water. For whatever reason it seems lose focus no matter how far the subject is and is much improved by using the 1.4 teleconverter. This was not the case prior to this update. There are several other wonky issues with a Focus that have not been there prior to that update as well. Long story short, after the press release of the Sony A7RV there were several aspects of that camera that I was hoping would be implemented into the A1 bodies. As we all know none of that happened. Before someone even says it, I realize I bought the bodies as it is and not with a projected feature set. I mulled the decision for several months and ended up buying the A7RV and immediately fell in love with that camera. Honestly, I would have purchased two of them if they would’ve been available at the time. I feel there are so many features in that camera could be added to the so-called pro body. I understand all the hardware issues cannot be done, but there are several software features that absolutely can be done. Some of which are, firmware via card, in camera Focus bracketing, and I think the speed at which the camera formats the cards could be improved to closely match the other camera. I’ve put about 40,000 images through the A7RV and can say without any doubt,The auto focus is superior to that of the A1, especially with the 600 GM. I have contacted Sony twice and have yet to ever receive an answer regarding any future improvements of the A1 body. I expect whenever I pay $6500 for a camera body for it to receive support for at least 3 to 5 years and I don’t think that’s asking for much. I think with the introduction of this newer camera and then Nikon throwing in a stacked sensor camera for less than $4000, it’s going to be a hard hill to climb for Sony to sell a second generation of the A1 at that same price or even more expensive in my opinion. I can say for certain after owning this newer camera that I have zero interest in a second generation A1. Honestly, with all the wildlife shooting I do, which is about 80% of my shooting, I have never needed to shoot at 30 frames per second. Most of the time I use continuous low or continuous medium and I’ve never had an issue with anything. Perhaps down the road they will add some of these features to the A1 but at this point I’m doubtful. I do know I’m not the only one that feels this way judging by what I’ve read on several different sites. I think paying this much for a camera anyone has the right to feel this way to be honest, I’m just curious how others feel about this?


Jul 27, 2023 at 10:25 AM
saaketham
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Pro body blues


Q111H wrote:
I think paying this much for a camera anyone has the right to feel this way to be honest, I’m just curious how others feel about this?


I read about the AF issues after updating FW on A1, so I did not update mine. It's 2 versions behind and works fine.
But, I agree with that statement "paying this much for a camera anyone has the right to feel this way to be honest".
For a (MSRP) $6500 camera, one would expect much better treatment.



Jul 27, 2023 at 10:58 AM
Q111H
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Pro body blues




saaketham wrote:
I read about the AF issues after updating FW on A1, so I did not update mine. It's 2 versions behind and works fine.
But, I agree with that statement "paying this much for a camera anyone has the right to feel this way to be honest".
For a (MSRP) $6500 camera, one would expect much better treatment.

Yes version 2 was great and I regret updating for sure. It just seems like they’ve stopped supporting the A1 to me. Don’t get me wrong I still love the camera and still remain hopeful that something will transpire over the next few months. It’s just sort of disheartening that the majority of the time I go out I want to grab the other camera which is sort of disgusting considering it’s $2700 less lol



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:04 AM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Pro body blues


If you find yourself unable to achieve your photographic vision with the A1, it's time to reconsider photography. Modern photographers are completely spoiled for choice and features compared to just a few years ago.

Sony has been a known quantity about post-release-support for several generations of bodies. Until people stop buying every new body, Sony has no reason to support older bodies. In no way do I condone how Sony treats their customers, and it's why I stopped giving them my money. However, the A1 as it shipped is still one of the most capable cameras on the planet.

Whatever new stacked sensor camera Sony releases will certainly cost more than the Z8, and will likely have considerably superior performance across a variety of metrics (EVF res/raw FPS/AF performance).

You have many beautiful images on your Flickr with your A1. Stop sweating silly things and keep shooting.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:06 AM
Q111H
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Pro body blues



RoamingScott wrote:
If you find yourself unable to achieve your photographic vision with the A1, it's time to reconsider photography. Modern photographers are completely spoiled for choice and features compared to just a few years ago.

Sony has been a known quantity about post-release-support for several generations of bodies. Until people stop buying every new body, Sony has no reason to support older bodies. In no way do I condone how Sony treats their customers, and it's why I stopped giving them my money. However, the A1 as it shipped is still one of the most capable cameras on the planet.

Not once did I ever say it wasn’t a capable camera. My biggest issue is that Sony created problems with a firmware update and still have yet to address the problems that they created with the firmware update. That is the biggest issue I have. Sure it would also be nice to have some of the features added from the RV but again I bought the camera the way it was specked. The firmware meaning 1.30 is something that can and should be corrected for damn sure. If I had a way of going back to version 1.2 I would but unfortunately I did not save a copy of that download.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:11 AM
dclark
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Pro body blues


The problem is Sony's competitors. Sony can offer little or no support and, for photographers that need high speed performance, they still have a better offering than any of their competitors.

Where is the Canon R1??

When will a Nikon Z match the A1? Nikon is a particular disappointment since they have access to Sony sensors and still don't manage to match the A1.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:23 AM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Pro body blues


dclark wrote:
The problem is Sony's competition. Sony can offer little or no support and, for photographers that need high speed performance, they still have a better offering than any of their competitors.

Where is the Canon R1??

When will a Nikon Z match the A1? Nikon is a particular disappointment since they have access to Sony sensors and still don't manage to match the A1.


Sony has synergy between their processors and their sensors that other brands who simply reuse Sony sensors don't. It's not a surprise that Sony has the best for themselves.

In reality, other cameras deliver very good high speed performance and the differences are now splitting hairs. Other brands also have more interesting lens lineups for longer lengths.

Any major brand's flagship will get you the shot 90% of the time. Photography has rapidly entered its easy mode era. Now the trick is finding things that haven't been photographed to death and doing something interesting.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:29 AM
Q111H
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Pro body blues




dclark wrote:
The problem is Sony's competitors. Sony can offer little or no support and, for photographers that need high speed performance, they still have a better offering than any of their competitors.

Where is the Canon R1??

When will a Nikon Z match the A1? Nikon is a particular disappointment since they have access to Sony sensors and still don't manage to match the A1.

Yeah, I agree totally I have zero regrets switching from nikon and I absolutely love Sony’s lens offerings. I do wish they were more proactive with firmware updates and support in general but I guess from what Scott is saying here it’s par for the course which I really wasn’t aware of before switching.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:37 AM
jeffbuzz
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Pro body blues


Q111H wrote:
I apologize for creating such a long post, but sort of wanted to vent and get other thoughts on how they feel. I am in no way trying to start an argument or anything of the sort. I’ve just often wondered through my life what the hell constitutes a pro body? I am almost 50 years old and I’ve been interested in photography my whole life. I’ve shot daily pretty much for the last 22 years. Having said that I feel I could go out and do a paid family photo shoot with the new A6700 or a cell phone
...Show more

It might be helpful to share some images showing examples of the problems you are experiencing. Most of us do better with visuals. The AF systems in modern cameras are increasingly complex. Sometimes changing a setting can dramatically improve the hit rate.

Shooting near water is especially challenging. Reflections and temperature gradients can wreak havoc on autofocus (and eyesight). The weather, time of day and shooting position can make or break many wildlife shots.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:45 AM
RoamingScott
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Pro body blues


Q111H wrote:
Yeah, I agree totally I have zero regrets switching from nikon and I absolutely love Sony’s lens offerings. I do wish they were more proactive with firmware updates and support in general but I guess from what Scott is saying here it’s par for the course which I really wasn’t aware of before switching.


The last Sony body that got a major feature update downstream from a better body was the A7R3. Since then, Sony has abandoned that effort, preferring you just replace your camera with the new hotness instead. So far, the market hasn't really responded negatively to that strategy so I'm not sure Sony has much reason to abandon it yet.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:46 AM
Q111H
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Pro body blues


jeffbuzz wrote:
It might be helpful to share some images showing examples of the problems you are experiencing. Most of us do better with visuals. The AF systems in modern cameras are increasingly complex. Sometimes changing a setting can dramatically improve the hit rate.

Shooting near water is especially challenging. Reflections and temperature gradients can wreak havoc on autofocus (and eyesight). The weather, time of day and shooting position can make or break many wildlife shots.


Yeah water can certainly be tricky as well as birds in flight but the performance IMO was better in general with version 1.2 which is the oldest firmware I have used due to buying in early 2022. I feel that my zooms aren't a whole lot different but the 600GM has suffered noticeably. It performs great on the RV in pretty much every situation I've thrown at it. Hopefully at some point they will provide a solution via firmware because I have heard many others state they've had issues as well regarding focus issues after 1.30. Unfortunately I haven't had the 600gm out in about 6 weeks as I am doing more macro photography at the moment but I will try and take it out sometime over the next fe days and post some examples.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:53 AM
dclark
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Pro body blues


RoamingScott wrote:
Sony has synergy between their processors and their sensors that other brands who simply reuse Sony sensors don't. It's not a surprise that Sony has the best for themselves.

That's a bunch of bunk! I spent 33 years in the imaging business and everyone has access to the best in off sensor electronics and firmware. If you are being beat because of off sensor electronics it's because of incompetence.

In reality, other cameras deliver very good high speed performance and the differences are now splitting hairs.

"very good" is about right.

Other brands also have more interesting lens lineups for longer lengths.

The Nikon 600/4 with TC is extremely attractive. If Nikon had a competitive camera to go with it, I would switch.

Any major brand's flagship will get you the shot 90% of the time. Photography has rapidly entered its easy mode era. Now the trick is finding things that haven't been photographed to death and doing something interesting.

Typical internet forum BS.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:57 AM
Q111H
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Pro body blues


RoamingScott wrote:
The last Sony body that got a major feature update downstream from a better body was the A7R3. Since then, Sony has abandoned that effort, preferring you just replace your camera with the new hotness instead. So far, the market hasn't really responded negatively to that strategy so I'm not sure Sony has much reason to abandon it yet.

That's certainly a bummer to hear but even as things stand now I will most likely at least keep the A1 for 4-5 years so as not to lose so much money on it. I sold the other one 4 months ago ago for $5200 which was sickening but I have no need for three bodies. I normally try to keep any body for at least 3 years and really see no compelling reason to upgrade any time soon. I have pondered the A6700 for a travel body and thought it would be a great little package paired with the 600gm for birding.



Jul 27, 2023 at 11:57 AM
timgangloff
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Pro body blues


My a1 is a out flat out money maker providing a 5 to almost 6 figure income working part time. Therefore, it sure appears to meet all of the pro body requirements to me. Perfect, no. And good luck with that cell phone on a beach with a setting sun. I'm sure the flash is good enough... Ugh, just please don't go there. That comment alone tells me we are worlds apart.


Jul 27, 2023 at 12:23 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Pro body blues


My head hurts.


Jul 27, 2023 at 12:24 PM
Q111H
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Pro body blues


timgangloff wrote:
My a1 is a out flat out money maker providing a 5 to almost 6 figure income working part time. Therefore, it sure appears to meet all of the pro body requirements to me. Perfect, no. And good luck with that cell phone on a beach with a setting sun. I'm sure the flash is good enough... Ugh, just please don't go there. That comment alone tells me we are worlds apart.


Man you're taking things totally out of context. My point is any Camera from pretty much any DSLR to any mirrorless camera can take images that can generate income. I know a couple that shoot 35-40 weddings per year with two A7iii bodies along with a handful of primes that make well up into 6 figures, so what's your point? My point is any camera period in the hands of a skilled photographer can generate income. So does their A7iii bodies or my A7RV not constitute pro bodies?



Jul 27, 2023 at 12:35 PM
Q111H
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Pro body blues


GMPhotography wrote:
My head hurts.


Just like you for instance, you state you're a pro photographer and I distinctly remember you on here saying a few months back that you thought the A7RV was a better camera in many ways over the A1. So are you now no longer a pro photographer since you don't own the A1 lol



Jul 27, 2023 at 12:41 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Pro body blues


I am a working Pro that's a fact not a statement for almost 50 years but there is no such thing as a camera for a working PRO. We all use different gear that have feature sets that we may need over other gear in our system. What I need is now on the 6700 as well as my A7RV. Im buying a 6700 next week because it will be a good secondary body for me. The A1 is awesome but I don't need 30 FPS or whatever it is I picked the A7RV that fits me better. Thats all Other feature sets as well but no need to go there

Bottom Line there is no such thing as a Pro camera and I owned ones that cost 50 grand but that don't make it a Pro camera in fact I sold it because it had limitations for me that did not work. The A1 has some nice feature sets if you need those , I do not and the A7rV like the AF system for instance. I shoot 20k images in 4 days of models walking the runway they turn even there head the A1 losses them the A7RV does not but sticks like glue < I make zero money on out of focus images if you get my drift here. Why I went A7RV.

Seriously if the A1 is not cutting it then you cut it and move on to something that may fit you better. Im not waiting for Sony to build a GUY only camera. They screwed up the Firmware on the A1 for a lot of folks and that is an issue.

My issue with this thread is the Nikon trolls here giving advice to Sony users. That to me is just flat out wrong and flat out being complete assholes. There I said it

I can't stand this behavior at all. If I owned this site they be gone and I did own a photo forum and banned the trolls daily.



Jul 27, 2023 at 12:59 PM
GMPhotography
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Pro body blues


I have been dealing with this technology of digital images since pretty much Day 1 in 1991 and everyday something new comes into play and I upgrade as needed for the feature sets that come out, Sony is notorious for these updates. Back in the day of film there was nothing to upgrade too they were pretty much all the same film in shoot film out and wash a repeat for decades. Today that is not the case . We are dealing in another world that is full of flaws and incidences like bad firmware. Thats the cost we as consumers pay


Jul 27, 2023 at 01:07 PM
Q111H
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Pro body blues


GMPhotography wrote:
I am a working Pro that's a fact not a statement for almost 50 years but there is no such thing as a camera for a working PRO. We all use different gear that have feature sets that we may need over other gear in our system. What I need is now on the 6700 as well as my A7RV. Im buying a 6700 next week because it will be a good secondary body for me. The A1 is awesome but I don't need 30 FPS or whatever it is I picked the A7RV that fits me better. Thats all
...Show more
Man I am not sure if you're referring to me but I have in no way been disrespectful to anyone on this site or thread. I never once said the A1 wasn't a good camera and only wish they would present anew firmware and possibly add a couple features from the A7RV. I have been extremely happy with my Sony gear and if not I would switch. Anyhow my point to even saying that is, A person does not have to shoot a certain camera to be a pro and contradictory to what the other fella states, there are people making money from phone images. Not saying that's for me but it does happen. Again if you're referring to me being a troll, then I am not even sure what to say because I have better things to do than behavior such as that.



Jul 27, 2023 at 01:11 PM
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