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A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

gooby
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

I've been really enjoying my A1 for shooting BIF. I am using lossless raw file format, so I am capped at 20fps. I don't think I need any more fps, but it certainly won't hurt for some BIF shots. I'm wondering if I switching to compressed raw will noticeably reduce image quality and also will it make DxO PureRaw less effective? Thanks

Jul 25, 2023 at 09:50 PM

TGPhotography
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

I use 30 fps and compressed raw often. No issues with the compressed raw results. I am sure someone shooting test patterns, really high dynamic range, or backlit stuff might see a small degradation with compressed raw. I doubt anyone will notice much in real life situations. Try it out yourself and see.

I don’t use DxO so no comment there.

Jul 25, 2023 at 10:24 PM

gooby
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

TGPhotography wrote:
I use 30 fps and compressed raw often. No issues with the compressed raw results. I am sure someone shooting test patterns, really high dynamic range, or backlit stuff might see a small degradation with compressed raw. I doubt anyone will notice much in real life situations. Try it out yourself and see.

I don’t use DxO so no comment there.

Great, I got a type A card 80gb for $97 new on the way. I'll give 30 fps a try.

Jul 25, 2023 at 10:28 PM

tschopp
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

So in compressed raw instead of lossless compressed raw the bit depth of the file will be reduced. Not sure if it's the faster sensor read or no need to compress that allows the faster shooting. The result will be reduced dynamic range, this may not be noticed unless you are trying to lift some pretty dark shadows.

On my a7riv I shoot everything but astro in compressed raw. If I had the option for lossless compressed at same file size I would use that by default for improved dynamic range.

I would say give it a shot and see what you like, for me 50% more files wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. I guess that depends on your culling workflow.

Jul 25, 2023 at 10:31 PM

randomguy
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

The main quality reduction is because of the delta coding, which can lead to posterization artifacts along areas with very high vertical contrast. Typically when you have bright directly sun lit vertical lines against dark shadows. Other than that I have never seen any noticable degradation of image quality.

As I think the conditions above is really crappy light, I rarely ever shoot in those conditions so for me it makes no difference in practice. But if I for some reason should decide to do it one day, I switch to lossless compressed. Haven't had a single photo which I consider usable where I noticed issues with lossy compressed raw, and that includes all my photos from the old days when that was all we had.

Jul 26, 2023 at 12:36 AM

QuietOC
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

There is no reason that delta encoding should cause visible posterization except through improper reconstruction--i.e., erroneous software that treats the decoded data as if it wasn't delta encoded.

Jul 26, 2023 at 06:27 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

I've always used Lossy Compressed Raw on all my Sony cameras. A9 and A9II to get 20FPS, A1 to get 30FPS. I'm not sure if I'd even notice a difference if I had shot Uncompressed on A9/A9II or Lossless Compressed on A1 but I don't care as I bought the cameras for their FPS and I'm going to use it.

Jul 26, 2023 at 07:03 AM

Daran
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

QuietOC wrote:
There is no reason that delta encoding should cause visible posterization except through improper reconstruction--i.e., erroneous software that treats the decoded data as if it wasn't delta encoded.
That is incorrect.
In high contrast scenarios (night time photography or shooting against the sun) the encoding has to encompass the highest intensity of each short (16 pixel?) horizontal strip. The available delta offsets are a small set of coarse fractions of that offset, that are relative to that highest intensity. As long as all pixels are roughly similar in intensity (say factor 4), that is not a big issue. But if there are dark pixels right next to the high intensity, the encoding error can be quite big compared to the small intensity number to be encoded.
In practice this means that if you have e.g. road lights in a nightscape, there will be a narrow band of pixels just left and right to those lights, that are visibly noisy, distinctly different from areas those further away. Depending on circumstances (and the lens) those may or may not be overpowered by glare. Unlike glare and lens flares, the effect is always exactly horizontal.
None of that matters for BIF, though. I also shoot my stationary birds using compressed RAWs. The only birding scenario where I'd even consider not using compressed RAWs would be shooting birds against the sun, which I usually try to avoid.

Jul 26, 2023 at 07:55 AM

mogul
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

The only real world scenario that seems to come up with lossy files is a point of light in a very dark scene (light bulb at midnight etc.). I never use anything but lossy files & have never noticed a difference.

Jul 26, 2023 at 09:30 AM

dclark
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

The compression algorithm and artifacts have been studied for many years. See https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/sony-craw-arw2-posterization-detection
You can use RawDigger to detect the compression errors to see if there is anything you care about.
I have used compressed RAW for many hundreds of thousands of BIF photos and have never noticed a compression artifact. I would not forego 30fps for fear of seeing a compression artifact.

Dave

Jul 26, 2023 at 10:00 AM

Choderboy
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

But it does. Are you disputing the many examples available to see with a quick google?
While they are of various subjects, it's clear that it's seen next to a high contrast area.

(I'm not saying OP should avoid compressed and I have shot lots of compressed without seeing any problems)

QuietOC wrote:
There is no reason that delta encoding should cause visible posterization except through improper reconstruction--i.e., erroneous software that treats the decoded data as if it wasn't delta encoded.

Jul 26, 2023 at 08:36 PM

skid00skid00
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

From the A1 manual:
MENU → (Shooting) → [Image Quality] → [Image Quality Settings] → [RAW File Type] → desired setting.
Menu item details
Uncompressed:
Records images in uncompressed RAW format. When [Uncompressed] is selected for [RAW File Type], the file size of the image will be larger than if it were recorded in lossless compressed RAW format or compressed RAW format.

Lossless Comp (L)/Lossless Comp (M)/Lossless Comp (S) *:
Records images with a lossless compression method that causes no deterioration** in image quality and has a high compression rate. The file size is smaller than when [Uncompressed] is selected.

Jul 26, 2023 at 10:04 PM

arbitrage
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · A1 BIF compressed raw required for 30fps- worth it?

skid00skid00 wrote:
From the A1 manual:
MENU → (Shooting) → [Image Quality] → [Image Quality Settings] → [RAW File Type] → desired setting.
Menu item details
Uncompressed:
Records images in uncompressed RAW format. When [Uncompressed] is selected for [RAW File Type], the file size of the image will be larger than if it were recorded in lossless compressed RAW format or compressed RAW format.

Lossless Comp (L)/Lossless Comp (M)/Lossless Comp (S) *:
Records images with a lossless compression method that causes no deterioration** in image quality and has a high compression rate. The file size is smaller than when [Uncompressed] is selected.

Lossless Compressed should have no deterioration from Uncompressed.

The discussion is around Compressed which is required to shoot 30FPS.

Jul 27, 2023 at 06:35 AM


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