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Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Abbott Schindl
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Zenon Char wrote:
I forgot to say C1 never listed any of my telephoto lenses for lens corrections.

I'm running "old" v22, and it supports a pretty big selection of EF and RF lenses (I'm a Canon user). Some Canon lenses need a bit of correction (RF lenses seem to rely on correction in post, for example the RF 14-35). They also don't support Canon Extenders mounted to various super-teles. While Capture One's corrections are useful, I wouldn't call the lack of them a show-stopper. It's not hard to adjust things during post, and it's easy to make your own custom preset, or to Copy/Paste adjustments among images.

One problem they introduced with their new "you really want a subscription, right?" approach is that perpetual licenses get only bug fixes for the year, not new features like they used to. And, unfortunately, new lens support is a new feature.

Aug 18, 2023 at 10:50 AM

Zenon Char
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Abbott Schindl wrote:
I'm running "old" v22, and it supports a pretty big selection of EF and RF lenses (I'm a Canon user). Some Canon lenses need a bit of correction (RF lenses seem to rely on correction in post, for example the RF 14-35). They also don't support Canon Extenders mounted to various super-teles. While Capture One's corrections are useful, I wouldn't call the lack of them a show-stopper. It's not hard to adjust things during post, and it's easy to make your own custom preset, or to Copy/Paste adjustments among images.

One problem they introduced with their new "you really want...Show more →

I agree. Not a show stopper as telephoto does not need as much correction as WA. I have shot with TC's for years so a little more CA, etc. It was culmination of items which were not bad. C1 just didn't wind being the best tool for my needs.

Aug 18, 2023 at 10:57 AM

Ayoul
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Zenon Char wrote:
ISO Adaptive presets can add anything you want at import. Mine include camera profile, Texture, Clarity, Dehaze, Sharpening, Detail, Masking and NR. Lens correction as well. All those settings except camera profile are based on each files ISO. They automatically adjust. Then add Auto (which is far from perfect) to do the base work and there you go. I did a charity shoot and process about 500 files in just over an hour. Of course for any serious work I'd spend more time.

Amateurs do use C1. Cost was relevant to me. As I said earlier if I was earning...Show more →

It's probably very interesting for those who need to... well... have adaptative presets, like you do. But I don't see where they could make me work faster. Really. I don't adjust clarity, details, dehaze based on the ISO values of my pictures. But undoubtly, this is someting that LR has that C1 has not. So for people who want or need it, the choice is easy ! But I never told myself that I should reduce or enhance a particular effect based on the ISO value.

Maybe I should add something : denoising and sharpening and lens corrections are done in DXO Photolab. After that, almost all of my pictures apart from those taken at insane iso values looks more or less clean at screen size. If I was 100% in C1, the sharpening and the noise reduction could indeed benefit from an adaptative preset.

Otherwise, you don't need to convince me that C1 is not perfect regarding colors or that Adobe is not garbage. C1 has the best tool for color correction, the color wheel is really nice, but in my opinion, default color profiles can be all over the place in C1. I hate for instance the skin tones coming from C1 for my A9s. You won't hear from me the classical "out of the box colors result of C1 is miles better, I have to work hard on LR to reach the same result". I never thought that. In fact, I never use any C1 color profile in my workflow, only my own.

Aug 18, 2023 at 12:51 PM

Zenon Char
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Aug 18, 2023 at 01:10 PM

Zenon Char
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

As for C1 the better colour out of the box is kinda funny. Several years ago someone released a video saying how much better C1 was out of the box. It was true. Adobe Standard is a little flat and tuning to taste, etc was expected. Six months later Adobe released Adobe Color and increased the sharpening default from 25 to 40. We live in an era where first looks can make or break a deal.

I would think that C1 is still the leader in colour compared to Adobe based on what people report. That has been their top claim and they are good at it.

Aug 18, 2023 at 01:25 PM

Ayoul
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I'm in the camp of those who believe that the default sharpening in C1 is way to heavy...

Aug 18, 2023 at 03:58 PM

ruthenium
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:
It's probably very interesting for those who need to... well... have adaptative presets, like you do. But I don't see where they could make me work faster. Really. I don't adjust clarity, details, dehaze based on the ISO values of my pictures. But undoubtly, this is someting that LR has that C1 has not. So for people who want or need it, the choice is easy ! But I never told myself that I should reduce or enhance a particular effect based on the ISO value.

Maybe I should add something : denoising and sharpening and lens corrections are done in...Show more →

It seems that the reasons and motivation behind your workflow are probably related to your professional needs. If this is true (and I have all the reasons to trust your judgement!) that "default color profiles can be all over the place in C1" and you "hate ... the skin tones coming from C1 for my A9s", then I don't think I should like C1.
I have been using DxO PL (now the latest PL6) for years, and I am interested in alternatives offering (if this is realistic to expect) better default colour profiles. I wouldn't say that PL6 default profile for my A1 is awful, no, but recently I have been experimenting with the alternatives available in PL6, particularly with their "Fuji X-A5, X-A7, X-T100, X-T200" profile. To give a specific example of the differences, the following images are after applying (1) DxO PL6 default profile, (2) a customized profile based off the Fuji profile, and (3) the comparison of the two in the upper right corner.
My problem with the default profile is the yellowish green and the "bleached-out" areas that looked as if blown out (overexposed). The Fuji green is more to my liking (although I don't claim that this is the true green of the subject - that might well have had a yellowish tint to it), and the overexposed parts are better defined.
I am sorry if this post is sort of off-topic.

ILCE-1 E 35-150mm F2.0-F2.8 A058 lens 150mm f/5.6 1/250s 3200 ISO 0.0 EV

Aug 18, 2023 at 08:12 PM

melcat
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:
I'm in the camp of those who believe that the default sharpening in C1 is way to heavy...

So am I. If you use multiple catalogues, be aware that when you save new sharpening defaults for a body using the three dots menu, they apply only to that catalogue.

I made my own camera ICC (colour) profiles, which I find to be better than Capture One’s, except for Capture One’s “ProStandard” for the R3, which is almost identical to the one I made, and for the Sony RX1, which I could probably tweak up to standard if I thought it was worth the effort. Again, the default profile for a camera applies to the catalogue, not globally.

Aug 19, 2023 at 12:20 AM

Ayoul
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

ruthenium wrote:
It seems that the reasons and motivation behind your workflow are probably related to your professional needs. If this is true (and I have all the reasons to trust your judgement!) that "default color profiles can be all over the place in C1" and you "hate ... the skin tones coming from C1 for my A9s", then I don't think I should like C1.
I have been using DxO PL (now the latest PL6) for years, and I am interested in alternatives offering (if this is realistic to expect) better default colour profiles. I wouldn't say that PL6 default profile...Show more →

It's complicated. C1 doesn't work like DXO for color rendering. DXO is the only software which allows you to use the color rendering of a camera B on a camera A. I explained it on my old review of DPL 5 :

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1735333/0

Look for "Color Palette" on the page.

I don't own the A1. Maybe you'll find that the prostandard profile for the A1 in C1 will be perfect for your taste, I don't know. But you won't be able to try different profiles (maybe a generic and prostandard) on your A1. Unless you create them or buy them.

Keep in mind however that both softwares offer a color wheel that allows you to modify individual colors (it's better in C1 but not bad in DXO).

Aug 19, 2023 at 01:33 AM

ruthenium
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:
It's complicated. C1 doesn't work like DXO for color rendering. DXO is the only software which allows you to use the color rendering of a camera B on a camera A. I explained it on my old review of DPL 5 :

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1735333/0

Look for "Color Palette" on the page.

I don't own the A1. Maybe you'll find that the prostandard profile for the A1 in C1 will be perfect for your taste, I don't know. But you won't be able to try different profiles (maybe a generic and prostandard) on your A1. Unless you create them or buy them.

Keep in mind...Show more →

Ok, I downloaded the trial C1 Pro, and applied the pro standard A1 profile and all auto corrections.
The two images below are (1) produced by applying the default DxO PL6 profile (2) the C1 profile.
Even if not perfect, the former looks slightly better to me.
I really struggled with C1 when trying to open the image - I did not quite understand what C1 wanted from me and why opening the image wasn't straightforward.

ILCE-1 E 35-150mm F2.0-F2.8 A058 lens 150mm f/5.6 1/250s 3200 ISO 0.0 EV

Aug 19, 2023 at 06:19 AM

Abbott Schindl
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

ruthenium wrote:
For my hobby shooting the first thing I look at is detail. C1 did not blow me away as I expected compared to LrC.

I find C1 to have a pretty light touch on default sharpening. As Zenon Char mentioned above, if I want more sharpening I usually go to the Structure slider first, then fine tune the Sharpening sliders. From this thread, though, it seems pretty clear to me that one sharpening preset won't make everyone happy: some find C1's default sharpening too heavy (I've seen this comment in other forums as well) and some find it inadequate. I guess that's what adjustments are for...

ruthenium wrote:
I really struggled with C1 when trying to open the image - I did not quite understand what C1 wanted from me and why opening the image wasn't straightforward.

Could it be that you were trying to work C1 like DXO? C1 requires you to import the image into C1 first, not simply double-click to open it. So with C1 it's "Import" and go through the simple dialog, as opposed to double-clicking on the file or telling C1 to simply "Open" it.

Aug 19, 2023 at 09:41 AM

myotis
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Abbott Schindl wrote:
Could it be that you were trying to work C1 like DXO? C1 requires you to import the image into C1 first, not simply double-click to open it. So with C1 it's "Import" and go through the simple dialog, as opposed to double-clicking on the file or telling C1 to simply "Open" it.

That isn't entirely correct. C1 has four options for managing files.

Referenced and Managed catalogues that require you to import files before you can edit them.

Sessions where there is an import option, but the edit information and previews are stored within the same directory/folder as the raw files and not inside a catalogue, The principal being that your create a new session per project, and once the session is created adding new files into system folder used to store the raws associated with the project will automatically appear in the C1 session without needing to import anything.

The fourth approach is to create a "Browser" session where you create a "single" session, and use C1 as a browser just as you would use Bridge/ACR or DXO. Double clicking on a file in C1 browser will open it in C1 for editing. Again without the need to import anything.

It's a bit more nuanced than this, but like many people I use both the session approach and browser session approach, and have only ever imported files into C1 whenI have been experimenting with the catalogue option.

For new users, the range of file management options in C1 are probably a bit confusing, but sessions are still very popular, especially with those who were using C1 before it had a catalogue option.

Aug 19, 2023 at 10:30 AM

myotis
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

ruthenium wrote:
Ok, I downloaded the trial C1 Pro, and applied the pro standard A1 profile and all auto corrections.
The two images below are (1) produced by applying the default DxO PL6 profile (2) the C1 profile.
Even if not perfect, the former looks slightly better to me.
I really struggled with C1 when trying to open the image - I did not quite understand what C1 wanted from me and why opening the image wasn't straightforward.

C1 has four options for managing files and takes a bit of effort to get your head around it.

It has a referenced catalogue option (like Lightroom) where you need to create a catalogue and import files into it. (but he files stay in their original location)

A managed catalogue option (like the now defunct Aperture) where the raw files are physically moved and stored inside a single catalogue file.

A session where you create separate "sessions" per project, and each C1 session files references the location where all the files related to a particular project live. Unlike a catalogue where all edit information and previews are stored in the catalogue, with sessions all the edits and previews are stored in a C1 file stored alongside the raw files. It makes it easy to archive entire projects, or transfer to another computer, because everything related to a project is stored within the same folder.

You can also set up a session as a "browser" where you create. a single session (called browser or any other appropriate name)
and then browse your hard drive from inside C1 and click on a file to open it inside C1. This latter approach makes C1 work like DXO or Bridge.

This makes C1 very versatile, but also a bit tricky for new users to get their head around. As lots of new users have come from lightroom, and the most obvious C1 option is a referenced catalogue (as with LR) I suspect many new users don't look at the other options. But if you aren't familiar with lightroom, or aware of the options C1 offers, I can understand why people sometimes have problems with this aspect of C1.

Aug 19, 2023 at 10:45 AM

Ayoul
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I use indeed the session mode as a browser, like DXO. After I finish my work, I import the folder with all the adjustments inside my catalog, for 2 reasons. Saving a backup of a catalog is easier. And I need to create a few collections after a wedding is done (web gallery, a selection for a book).

EDIT : session mode or "browser mode", one thing that LR has not, if I want to reconnect with the subject of the thread. But let's face it, LR has the best catalog.

Edited on Aug 20, 2023 at 10:27 AM · View previous versions

Aug 20, 2023 at 04:53 AM

RustyBug
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:
EDIT : session mode or "browser mode", one thing that LR has not, if I want to reconnect with the subject of the thread. But let's face it, LR has the best catalog.

+1

The "browser mode" was part of the rationale for my initial selection to C1 (vs. LR). That, and for some of the IQ, it was notably improved at that time. In the vein of IQ, LR has "upped its game" since I first got C1 ... narrowing the gap a bit, imo.

LR also has some newer features that have their merit, too.

Aug 20, 2023 at 10:06 AM

EB-1
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

If LR could eliminate the catalog I'd use it, but databases don't fit my work patterns.

EBH

Aug 20, 2023 at 10:20 AM

ruthenium
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I am not a pro, and thus my experience can be irrelevant to many FMers. Nevertheless, to share my views:
It is likely that every major app (Adobe, C1, DxO, etc) can produce good quality jpgs from raw. The differences are probably in the details of post-processing, when certain features can be more useful for different genres of photography, or more convenient for certain types of corrections and adjustments; that is, when one of the applications can offer time-saving opportunities not available in the other apps. Ultimately, it is the experience and good knowledge of one or more of the particular apps that are important. I am afraid that none of the apps would work well for users who have not invested a certain amount of time into learning the available features. From this point of view, those who mastered one app may want to stay with that app. Switching to another can be interesting learning experience, but may require time and may not necessarily result in better product pictures. Some features of the different apps can actually be detrimental, rather than useful. For example, I don't need cataloging and I would be reluctant to adopt an app where cataloging is a major feature. For me, working with the raw files (opening/importing) in C1 has been a torturous experience. I am sure I can learn my ways through this part of C1, but I am not convinced that this is going to be of any benefit to me. I have no problem arranging my files the way I like: first a year folder (e.g. 2023), then the season or project folders inside (e.g. Summer 2023, or when related to a trip this can be named after the place, e.g., "Japan 2023").
I doubt it that there is an application that can produce a good-quality jpeg output after applying some default corrections, with minimal to none additional changes required. This is not impossible, but I guess that the default corrections work well mostly when the light/lighting are nearly ideal. To illustrate the point, below are the images produced in
(1) Fully corrected to my liking in DxO PL6 (based off the "Fuji X-A5, X-A7, X-T100, X-T200" profile in PL6)
(2) After applying the default corrections in DxO PL6, without further manual corrections
(3) After applying the default corrections (Auto adjust) in C1
(4) After applying the default corrections in Irident Developer
None of the default corrections worked to give me the product image that was to my liking, without further adjustments. Having said this, I should acknowledge that I somewhat liked the output from Irident where manual lifting the shadows might have worked to give me what I wanted. Perhaps, I should spend more time experimenting with Irident Developer.

ILCE-1 E 35-150mm F2.0-F2.8 A058 lens 150mm f/2.8 1/160s 320 ISO 0.0 EV

Aug 20, 2023 at 08:24 PM

IndyFab
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

If using Adobe, you may want to consider watching some of Marks videos to get the most out of your files

https://www.youtube.com/@MarkMetternichPhotographyLLC

Aug 20, 2023 at 09:51 PM

Peter Figen
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Zenon Char wrote:
I forgot to say C1 never listed any of my telephoto lenses for lens corrections. That kinda hinted to me what C1was geared for and another reason I did not press the buy button. As I stated as a pro portrait, etc I'd likely be using C1 for higher end work. Also I'm not saying that people who own telephoto lenses shouldn't be using C1. The colours are really good with C1.

Maybe the reason there are no corrections for your telephotos is that they tend to be well corrected already and don't need any. If, by chance, you feel you need to address chromatic aberration, then there is the kick ass "analyze" button that will generate a custom correction for that lens and aperture.

Aug 20, 2023 at 11:52 PM

melcat
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

ruthenium wrote:
I am afraid that none of the apps would work well for users who have not invested a certain amount of time into learning the available features.

I think this is, by design, untrue for DxO. I had it on my system a while back for “hard cases” that Adobe couldn’t handle, and it had a mode, on by default, which tried to fix high dynamic range images perceptually, using a mechanism like local dimming as used on higher-end televisions. It even had differential sharpening built in, for a wide selection of lens/body combinations, so that a lens known to be soft in the corners got more sharpening there. Of course it has a big lens database for automatic falloff and distortion corrections. Back when I bought it, the value they were trying to sell was very much that they would get this stuff right for you with little effort, and you could tweak from there.

...I don't need cataloging and I would be reluctant to adopt an app where cataloging is a major feature. For me, working with the raw files (opening/importing) in C1 has been a torturous experience. I am sure I can learn my ways through this part of C1, but I am not convinced that this is going to be of any benefit to me. I have no problem arranging my files the way I like: first a year folder (e.g. 2023), then the season or project folders inside (e.g. Summer 2023, or when related to a trip this can be named after...Show more →

It was explained by another poster above that you can either copy image files into the catalogue, or just reference them in place. I chose to do the latter, and because I was coming from Adobe Bridge + Camera Raw + Photoshop I already had my images organised into directories by subject/trip. Now in Capture One, I can click on the “Melbourne (CBD)” directory and see all the images there, and further narrow the selection by lens, focal length etc. I can also click on the “Street” album, which contains some of the images in “Melbourne (CBD)”, some in "Sydney” directory, and some in other places. And I have everything captioned, and can just click on the very top level directory and do a free search for text that occurs in those captions.

Lightroom has approximately the same features. You can even see your images on a map if they have GPS embedded in them (Capture One is weaker there, showing only one image at a time on a map.)

(3) After applying the default corrections (Auto adjust) in C1

IIRC “auto adjust” isn’t the default in Capture One. By default it assumes you exposed correctly and you have to actively perform an auto adjustment.

Aug 21, 2023 at 02:01 AM

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