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Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Zenon Char
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

leethecam wrote:
Capture One still does perpetual licences. They made a pig's ear of it when they marketed the subscription model and it got everyone confused (including me).

But the perpetual option is still very much there.

One caveat though... There are no incremental, discounted upgrades on the perpetual licence. You buy it and it is what it is. If you want to upgrade at any point then it's a brand new perpetual licence at full price. But that suits me as I tend to upgrade only to cater for a newer camera.

Wow. It’s pretty expensive to start with. I tried it several times and liked it but the initial price always prevented me from pressing the buy button. I know if I was a portrait photographer I’d likely have it. I’m also bad for upgrading every year. That would have likely stopped me.
Always keeping up in case Adobe ticks me off. Thanks for the info.

Aug 16, 2023 at 01:24 PM

doady
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I spent $149.50 USD (-50%) on 7, $49 USD (-50%) to upgrade to 9, $178 CAD (-33%, ~$130 USD) to upgrade to 12, and $0 CAD (-100%, ~$0 USD) to upgrade to 20. I haven't upgraded since then because my camera is a 2016 model. So that's ~$330 USD since 2014. Imagine if I had subscribed to LR instead.

Aug 16, 2023 at 08:31 PM

Peter Figen
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I've used the Adobe products and if I work hard enough I can get to the point where Capture One looks right out of the box, so for me, it's the speed of use, the streamlined workflow and most importantly, the quality of the processing. For commercial jobs you plug in your camera, and boom, it's tethered and it just works.

As far as the price, it's all rather incidental compared to what you spend on your equipment. What's a few hundred dollars over several years when you've dropped tens of thousands or more on cameras, lenses, lighting, tripods and a myriad of peripherals. It's the wrong place to save money.

Aug 16, 2023 at 09:31 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Peter Figen wrote:
It's the wrong place to save money.
+100

Something very sage to let resonate, marinate and sink in deeply ... in all aspects of life.

Sometimes we have to look at things from the opposite perspective, to see things more clearly.

To our (pp) application, the same can be applied whether folks are grumbling about GIMP vs. Affinity vs. Adobe subscription vs. Capture initial costs, upgrades, subscriptions, etc.

Imo, the bottom line is "DON'T FIGHT with your TOOLS."

If you're fighting with your tools, get the tool that you don't have to fight with.
Whether that's software, camera, sewing machine, hammer, saw, chisel, knife, computer, pencil, washing machine, etc.. Sure, you may have to spend a $$ to get the right tool. But, the $$ spent on the enjoyment of a meal or a drink only lasts for a few hours. The money spent on tools that you don't have to fight with ... will provide an enjoyment that lasts vastly longer.

For those interested in C1 ... get the demo, or rent it for a few months. Sure, the monthly rental isn't the "most cost effective" approach, but if you're going to make a workflow decision, the demo time isn't enough (imo) to develop the appreciation for whether it is the RIGHT TOOL for you. The demo is enough time to see the difference in IQ, which when I got C1 a few years back, was a bit startling on some of my images vs. Adobe. Ultimately, I have both tools C1 and PS (i.e. PS and LR come together). Probably time for me to look at upgrading C1 when the new version comes out this fall (I'm pretty settled in on my camera bodies, now ... i.e. no upgrade plans in the foreseeable future).

Something to ponder:

$$$ is in itself a tool ... the "universal" tool to get the "more specific", right tools. What we build with our tools is up to us. Imo, use the "money tool" to build your collection of "photographic tools" (e.g. editing tools) that best suit your ability to build your photos. Using your screwdriver or wrench for a hammer may be cheaper, than getting good hammers (tack, ball peen, sledge, roofing, etc.), but you'll find the right tool (for you) makes the work so much more Efficient, Effective and Enjoyable (3E's).

I can let my tools sit in the the toolbox, or I can use them to create what I want with them. I can use that $$ tool to build a bigger beer belly

or a better editing workflow

... the choice of what I create with that $$ tool is mine. Imo, get that $$ tool out of its toolbox (i.e. wallet), to get you the editing tools you will enjoy using and creating with the most.

Of course, the only way to know which hammer (with so many to choose from) you'll like to swing best ... is to pick up the hammer and give it more than just one swing. That's when you really find out if it is the right tool for you.

C1 ... give it try. That's the only way you'll really know if it's right for you.
Not that much different from trying a new meal or beverage to find out if you REALLY LIKE IT ... or it's just, "meh" for you.

HTH

Aug 17, 2023 at 07:27 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I tried it about 3 times. Always about $250 - 300 CND for initial price. I wasn't really desperate so never waited for a sale. Never occurred to do so. Aside from sales for the annual upgrades they were pretty expensive as well. As for Adobe I was paying $150 a year for Zenfolio which I admit was overkill for my needs. Zenfolio is very well laid out. Portfolio which is not as good comes the subscription plan so it was not a tough decision. Nice results with C1 pro and I was close but just couldn't press that buy button. If I was a working pro I know I'd have it.

Aug 17, 2023 at 09:24 AM

doady
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

This thread is "C1 vs. LR", not "C1 vs. Adobe" or "C1 vs. PS", so don't talk about "different tools". It's not like choosing between a pistol and an assault rifle, it's more like choosing between a glock and a USP.

Aug 17, 2023 at 09:30 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

doady wrote:
This thread is "C1 vs. LR", not "C1 vs. Adobe" or "C1 vs. PS", so don't talk about "different tools". It's not like choosing between a pistol and an assault rifle, it's more like choosing between a glock and a USP.

Why not? It's about cost as well which is always in important factor in all software conversations. People will wait 3 months for BF to save $20

I understand your point but you can't get LR as stand alone anymore. It comes as package that includes PS, etc. Some may have left after LR6 and others that had the subscription plan.

Aug 17, 2023 at 11:14 AM

Ayoul
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

My answer to the original question is simple :

Speed.

Almost everything is faster for me on C1 than on LR. One exception is startup time especially in catalogue mode in C1, but except that, as a wedding photographer, I'm way more efficient now in C1 than I was in LR.

I cull with Fast Raw Viewer, and denoise in DXO. The post processing is then done in Capture One.

What are the advantages of C1 ? Roughly in order of importance for me :

- general speed in adjustments. It can be hardware or OS related, but every adjustment in C1 is more reponsive on my computer. It has always been, no matter my config along the years. Using the sliders, moving to the next picture, everything

- speed edit keys. I urge every LR user to try LRsuperkeys, a plug in which can do more or less the same on LR. A notable drawback : in my experience, you can't use it on several pictures at the same time. You can in C1. Which means that you can modify values of almost every slider on different pictures without deleting previous adjustments of the same slider (so it's not like synchronizing a parameter). I almost never use my mouse to clic then drag a slider in C1. I'm faster.

- auto-keystoning : I very often use it, and the one in C1 is by far the most efficient, even compared to DXO. It finds most of the time the right lines and make the right correction. It can find the correct lines in a blurred background as well where the others give up. The tool uses the auto rotation in conjunction with the auto keystoning, which is of course the way to do it properly. The one in LR is not very reliable

- smart adjustments : it's still not perfect but I use it. For people who don't use C1, this tools tries to match exposure and/or white balance between shots (which is of course not the same as copy paste them). There is a tool like that for exposure only in LR, but based on my brief experiments, it doesn't work as well.

- ability to totally personnalize the interface. You can put every tool in the order that you wish, totally remove it if you don't use it.
EDIT : as Zenon Char said, it's available in LR, so I correct this. However, there are dozens of items that I can add, move or remove in C1, it remains more primitive in LR. I can for example separate white balance, exposure and highlights/shadows/black/white in C1, while it remains from what I see in LR a "family" that moves as a whole. But the point is noted !

- the white slider : it's not the same, in LR, I think that it just moves the white point. In C1, it's a tool that really aims for the brightest part of the picture and acts like the others (shadows, highlights, etc)

- the white balance can go colder, I don't use that possibility often, but it's nice

Things that are better on LR vs C1 but are not sufficient to make me switch back :

- way better denoising since a few months : It's very good, roughly on par with Deep Prime, but way slower than Deep Prime in my experiment. I denoise in DXO, so basically I don't care.

- masking : it was a few years ago a huge avantage for C1 but it's not the case anymore. The new masking abilities in LR are very, very good. But I don't use masks that often. Once or twice per wedding ? I use it once in a while to create a fake fill-in light when I didn't have my flash on my camera.

- an infinity of presets and profiles of diverse quality are available in LR : this is huge. There are way less options in C1 (and honnestly, don't buy the presets that Capture One sells, never). I adapted the presets that I like from LR to C1 with 3d lut creator, I'm happy with them and I learnt a lot of things on the way

- in the same vein, there are a lot of plug-ins for LR, and not that much for C1. I use LR for the processing of my scans of negatives for instance, because I have a plug in for that.

- better cataloging abilities

That's what comes to my mind right now.

Edited on Aug 18, 2023 at 05:18 AM · View previous versions

Aug 17, 2023 at 01:39 PM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:
My answer to the original question is simple :

Speed.

Almost everything is faster for me on C1 than on LR. One exception is startup time especially in catalogue mode in C1, but except that, as a wedding photographer, I'm way more efficient now in C1 than I was in LR.

I cull with Fast Raw Viewer, and denoise in DXO. The post processing is then done in Capture One.

What are the advantages of C1 ? Roughly in order of importance for me :

- general speed in adjustments. It can be hardware or OS related, but every adjustment in C1 is more...Show more →

Which version of LR are you referring too? You mention being able to customize the interfac. The order and hide tools you don’t use. LrC can do that. As for speed LrC offers Adaptive ISO presets. Between that and Auto I can process a file in seconds.

Not trying to lure anyone back to LrC. Just fair to compare one 2023 product to another 2023 product.

Edited on Aug 18, 2023 at 09:44 AM · View previous versions

Aug 17, 2023 at 05:43 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:

as a wedding photographer, I'm way more efficient now in C1 than I was in LR.

As a business person ... what else is there to think about?

You cited in the OP that you liked it, except for the cost.

Classically, time is money. Turnaround time is customer satisfaction, time is mood, time can be reallocated, etc.

What is your "cost per wedding" to have C1 in your workflow toolset?

I mean, if C1 is $300 (easy math), and you keep it for 3 years between upgrades, that's $100/year, or $8.33 / month or $1.92 / week.

I don't know how many weddings you are shooting per time frame ... but, best I can see, this is a foolish question to say you like it as a business person, and cite how much faster it is, then question the cost, when it is miniscule on a per transaction basis.

Even if you only do ten wedding / year, that's adding $10, to your overall cost per wedding for the exchange of the performance and time that it gathers you, that you already indicted you like. If it is giving you the 3E (Efficiency, Effectiveness and Enjoyment), for your workflow that is likely to be less than 1% of your wedding transaction ... possibly even 0.1% or 0.01% depending on your frequency and average, per transaction revenue.

It's your business and your time ... so, it's your math. But, I'm hard pressed to see what aspect of "cost" for C1 there is to be concerned about, given your indications about how it saves you time, and you like it.

The matter of "cost to purchase" is one thing. The matter of "cost to not have it" is another.
How much does it cost you in your 3E's to not have it? You buy it once (or for a set interval of time), you live with it (or without it) everyday, thereafter.
If you have to "fight with LR" as part of your workflow tools more than C1 ... (see above).

Just sayin', if you're a wedding photographer, processing as you've indicated ... I think Peter is right by 1,000X on this one.

Peter Figen wrote:
It's the wrong place to save money.

Aug 17, 2023 at 07:18 PM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I agree. If I was a working pro that would be part of the business plan. I would not think twice to get the tools for my job regardless of the cost.

Aug 17, 2023 at 08:39 PM

Ayoul
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Zenon Char wrote:
Which version of LR are you referring too? You mention being able to customize the interfac. The order and hide tools you don’t use. LrC can do that. As for speed LrC offers Adaptive ISO presets. Between that an Auto I can process a file in seconds.

Not trying to lure anyone back to LrC. Just fair to compare one 2023 product to another 2023 product.

Indeed, I missed that possibility which exists since several years ! I will edit my post (I will add an edit and let the mistake in place for the comprehension of the thread and the answers). I have the current version of LR classic, I still have my plan even if I don't use LR as often as before.

However, there are dozens of items that I can add, move or remove in C1, it remains more primitive in LR. I can for example separate white balance, exposure and highlights/shadows/black/white in C1, while it remains from what I see in LR a "family" that moves as a whole. I try to keep in touch with all the novelties announced in LR, but obviously I miss a few things sometimes.

Honnestly, I couldn't care less about adaptive iso presets or auto settings. If I was using the integrated noise reduction of C1, maybe an adaptative preset in C1 would be practical, but this task it entirely the job of DXO in my workflow. I remember using a plug in a few years ago in LR which had the same purpose, before it was integrated natively.

With a few very rare exceptions, processing a file is always a matter of seconds. It's just a matter of how many. If I can reduce from 10 sec to 5, in the end of the day, it's a tremendous difference. When the tool is faster / more practical, in my experience, it always serves unconsciously two purposes : I am at the same time better (more fine adjustments per picture) and faster. I now can have a mini week-end at the end of the week before the next wedding. It hasn't always been the case.

If I was an amateur, I would probably stick to my LR+PS plan.

RustyBug wrote:
As a business person ... what else is there to think about?

There is nothing else to think about. I have indeed more time for clients, updating my portfolio, other photo projects, and personnal life. The fact that C1 is more expensive is irrelevant, even if I don't make millions out of my job.

Aug 18, 2023 at 05:12 AM

slickturner
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

What an absolute pile of generalities crap.

Aug 18, 2023 at 05:35 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:
When the tool is faster / more practical, in my experience, it always serves unconsciously two purposes : I am at the same time better (more fine adjustments per picture) and faster. I now can have a mini week-end at the end of the week before the next wedding. It hasn't always been the case.

If I was an amateur, I would probably stick to my LR+PS plan.

There is nothing else to think about. I have indeed more time for clients, updating my portfolio, other photo projects, and personnal life. The fact that C1 is more expensive is irrelevant ...

Aug 18, 2023 at 06:26 AM

Ayoul
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

slickturner wrote:
What an absolute pile of generalities crap.

Rough night ? Wrong forum ?

Aug 18, 2023 at 06:28 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Zenon Char wrote:
I agree. If I was a working pro that would be part of the business plan.

Yup.

Aug 18, 2023 at 06:37 AM

ruthenium
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Aug 18, 2023 at 07:16 AM

Ayoul
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

There litteraly dozens of things that I hate in DXO, even if I like the product overall.

I did an extensive review of DPL 5 on this forum and all the quirks that prevent (me) from having an efficient workflow with it are listed :

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1735333/0

I added later a couple of new thoughts related to DPL 6, that I bought as well :

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1781256/0#16087807

Long story short, the few things that comes to mind right now :

- on the slow side for everything
- useless highlights / shadows slider, I have sometimes to rely on the control points or lines, while I just use the sliders in C1 or LR
- crop and rotate tool is the worst of the three main softwares, even in DPL6
- no speed edit keys

Aug 18, 2023 at 07:42 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

Ayoul wrote:
Indeed, I missed that possibility which exists since several years ! I will edit my post (I will add an edit and let the mistake in place for the comprehension of the thread and the answers). I have the current version of LR classic, I still have my plan even if I don't use LR as often as before.

However, there are dozens of items that I can add, move or remove in C1, it remains more primitive in LR. I can for example separate white balance, exposure and highlights/shadows/black/white in C1, while it remains from what I see in LR...Show more →

ISO Adaptive presets can add anything you want at import. Mine include camera profile, Texture, Clarity, Dehaze, Sharpening, Detail, Masking and NR. Lens correction as well. All those settings except camera profile are based on each files ISO. They automatically adjust. Then add Auto (which is far from perfect) to do the base work and there you go. I did a charity shoot and process about 500 files in just over an hour. Of course for any serious work I'd spend more time.

Amateurs do use C1. Cost was relevant to me. As I said earlier if I was earning for a living I'd likely have but LrC/PS and C1. Cost would not be a factor. Both those combined including 3rd party apps cost far less than my gear. One thing I liked about C1 is it did give more of a 3D look compared to LrC. It has been about 4 years since I last tried C1 so I don't know about that these days.

For my hobby shooting the first thing I look at is detail. C1 did not blow me away as I expected compared to LrC. If it had I would have pressed that buy button in a heart beat. I had this conclusion before I found this video. A die hard C1 user but has well balanced reviews.

Start at 10:20 to about 11:40. Adobe has always had a bad rap for quality but I never thought so.

His views ion Adobe Color if anyone is interested. It didn't get very warm welcome but one time I've learned to appreciate it.

Aug 18, 2023 at 10:32 AM

Zenon Char
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Those that switched from LR to Capture One, why did you switch?

I forgot to say C1 never listed any of my telephoto lenses for lens corrections. That kinda hinted to me what C1was geared for and another reason I did not press the buy button. As I stated as a pro portrait, etc I'd likely be using C1 for higher end work. Also I'm not saying that people who own telephoto lenses shouldn't be using C1. The colours are really good with C1.

Aug 18, 2023 at 10:41 AM

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